250 GTO 4399 Crashed at Goodwood Revival.

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by miurasv, Sep 9, 2017.

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  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #1 miurasv, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    250 GTO 4399 spun and crashed at Goodwood Revival qualifying by Stippler/Newall for the TT with Andy Newall driving. It was fastest qualifier at the point it crashed but was pipped by a few tenths on the last lap by an E Type.

    Screenshot (2093).png Screenshot (2080).png Screenshot (2085).png Screenshot (2082).png Screenshot (2089).png Screenshot (2091).png Screenshot (2059).png Screenshot (2055).png
     
  2. tomgt

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    as there are many replicas racing at GR......this could be one of them.
    They also brought their 250 GTO "#4399R" 1962 model.
    some replica 250 SWB racing there as well
     
  3. moriaan1

    moriaan1 Formula 3
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    nope thats the real deal.. but no worries, it will be fixed, bit of unfolding aluminium, and some paint and its as good as new
     
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  4. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    did you check the s/n and chassis yourself?

    lots of replicas out there
    The list is too long lol
     
  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Needs a new steering wheel as well!!! Video of the crash here:

     
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  6. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    I understand it is the real one with a replica body....What a shame they still pretend like it's 1964... I was watching a E Type video of them slipping around in the rain. It does not matter with the replicas but cars like this it does.
     
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  8. miurasv

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    #7 miurasv, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
    Shmee was told this replica of 4399 when it had its 62 body was real but with a new body and got driven around the track by Dario Franchiti. It's even got a plaque on the gearbox tunnel with all the races that the real 4399 entered. He may not have read it properly though. It may say it's a tribute car. I could make out the name Terry Hoyle. See from about 1.50 and 16.50.

     
  9. GIOTTO

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    Cars are badly crashed every year at Goodwood during those stupid races. Let's hope that another skilled "carrozziere" can fix this wrong replica body correctly now.
     
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  10. of2worlds

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    Even the very early cars blessed by Classiche don't have bodywork that matches the original. You need look no further than the current issue Aug/Sept of Cavallino magazine to see the compromised styling details that don't match with the period photographs.
     
  11. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior
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    The inside story from Goodwood: the claim is being made there that the car that crashed is in fact the replica 330, and that the car wearing 62-style bodywork is in fact 4399. i.e. the bodies have been swapped.

    I cannot possibly believe this would be true. The 64-style body has been on 4399 for 99% of its life. Surely the car that crashed *is* 4399 (replica '64 body or not), and the 62-style car 'WER 5' is in fact 6713 as we all assume.

    This is also what the DVLA believes, so they'll be interested to learn if that's not the case...

    -Ed
     
  12. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    The car that Shmee was driven in by Franchiti at Goodwood, WER 5, has the Terry Hoyle plaque on the gearbox tunnel.
     
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  13. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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    Sad to see this but as you said, bit of unfolding aluminium, and some paint and its as good as new.

    These cars were made to race.
     
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  15. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    Sure thing. Just race it and race it and race it.
    Beat the life out of it to no end, until there's not one scrap of original car left. You own it, you can destroy it! Genius.

    *To be clear, I don't mean this as a personal attack in response to your comment.
     
  16. Nike

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    So the car that Shmee rides in with Dario is also owned by Bamford?
     
  17. torquespeak

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    The plaque in the car itself can be read in the video. It states:

    "This completely accurate tool room re-creation of Ferrari GTO chassis number 4399 was made by Terry Hoyle ex Maranello Concessionaires Senior Race Engineer, Chassis number 6713 in 1985."

    The chassis number is correct. It is 6713GT. The rest of it makes it sound like it was initially built up as a tribute to 4399GT, which is nonsense. The car was originally conceived as 330 GTO replica, inspired by 4561SA, which is why it originally had the 330-style bonnet bulge. Looks like history is being rewritten to suit how the car is now painted...

    -Ed
     
  18. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    I dont think the crash damage was that bad and I can see both sides of the divide regarding racing them, I am still in favour of actually using them to do what they are designed for and if they get a little damaged, so be it. As for fakes, only us anoraks really care that much as to exactly how authentic they are, for many spectators its just about good racing between iconic classic cars and I can't see anything too wrong with that.
     
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  19. GHG

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    The crashed car is surely a real GTO, just rebodied to Series II body by Scaglietti in 1963.
     
  20. miurasv

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    #18 miurasv, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    plq6713.PNG plq6713 2.PNG
    ...all Shmee had to do was read the plaque to know the car is a replica. Surely he read it???? Also I can understand a plaque with the list of races on the real thing, but on a replica of it....
     
  21. KenGoldman

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    I am at Goodwood. Alain deCadenet just talked to our group. The 250 GTO was definitely a replica. Alain said that Lord Banford and many others realized that you cannot race these old cars and ever win a race. Most of the other cars we see have severe modifications today.
     
  22. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    It would be interesting to know if it's a scratch built replica with a brand new engine and chassis or based on the chassis/engine of another Ferrari????
     
  23. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    1985... So where has the real 4399 been all those years? Locked up? 4399 is one of my favorite Ferraris. Too bad it turns out that I've never seen the real thing...:(

    Edit: just saw the Schmee video and now I'm confused. why is there a plaque in WER5 about 4399? :?
     
  24. miurasv

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    That's a different replica that Tourquespeak was talking about. He was talking about the replica that Shmee was taken out in by Franchiti; the supposed tribute to the 62 bodied version of 4399. Ken was referring to the 64 bodied 250 GTO that crashed in the race being a replica of 4399 too.

    Replicas everywhere.....
     
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  25. FabioitaliaFerrari

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    Marcel Massini, we need your help.
     
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  26. KenGoldman

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    Alain raced in the Kinrara Trophy race which had nine
    250 SWB Ferraris. The top seven spots went to Jaguars, many of them altered for the race.

    So the bottom line is "Do not believe all that you see".
    This is from Alain DeCadenet who was in one of the SWB cars. He was the first SWB to cross the line--
    8th position.
    Ken Goldman
     
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  27. miurasv

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    It's supposed to be a tribute to it. Silly listing all the races that the replica didn't participate in, imo.
     
  28. miurasv

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    Perhaps somebody could ask Alain de Cadenet if the replica is wholly new with a new GTO chassis and engine or based on another Ferrari such as a 250 GTE or 330 GT?????
     
  29. tomgt

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  30. tomgt

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    Peter, just look at the old photographs of 4399 ;-).......it will be very easy now
    And while were at it....what about the 250LM at GR.....
     
  31. Lussolover

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    I can't believe it's more important to "win a race" than to have the original cars out there. What an embarassment.

    Sounds like someones brain is broken.
     
  32. moriaan1

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    google on barchetta.cc 4399gt

    In the picture the steeringwheel and cockpit are 100% the same as the crashed car, and I cant find anything on a later rebody than the one done in 1964.

    There are a few replica's, and some are fantastic, but unless an expert like mr. Massini can verify its a replica its the real deal with dents and bruzes...
     
  33. alberto

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    Why are some of you guys so compelled to spew hate on people using their property as they see fit, specially when it is done in a legal and reasonably controlled way? These things were first crashed shortly after they were first built and were fixed and used and crashed again. At this point very few have their original bodies intact. From the day they were placed in their first race it was known (even expected) that they would not remain pristine.

    What some of you are advocating is to keep these cars as trailer queens and locked them up because even driving them to the corner grocery store exposes them to being crashed.

    Get a life.
     
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  34. BMW.SauberF1Team

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    I don't trust what he really says about vintage cars and he's usually honest in telling people his limitations.

    Regardless, I hope the actual GTOs (and other vintage cars) get used and rebuilt as needed and not shoved away into a museums/collector garages for eternity. During their time, vintage race cars went through repaints and rebodies/repairs regularly so the cars are not the exact same as they came out of the factory.
     
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  35. moriaan1

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    shmee.... I am not a fan at all..
     
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  36. PAUL500

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    The man himself......

     
  37. torquespeak

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    The real 4399 doesn't just stay locked up. It does make appearances. Just not necessarily at all of the places where you thought it was.

    -Ed
     
  38. Philip

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    #36 Philip, Sep 10, 2017
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    The car with the '64-style bodywork which crashed yesterday does appear to differ in some minor details from the 4399GT which was on static display at Masterpiece London last year - is that as a result of repairs from its 2016 Revival damage?
     
  39. davidoloan

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    What was Jean Alesi driving at Goodwood revival in 2012 or 13?
     
  40. Philip

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    Have to say, I'm confusing myself now looking through my own and other photos - not sure if the differences are actually a result of repairs post the 2016 knock at Goodwood.

    Some input from those more familiar with the actual car needed!
     
  41. miurasv

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    #39 miurasv, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    GTOs 4399, driven by John Surtees, and 3767 driven by Derek Bell can be seen in this classic video narrated by the late Robert Hardy.

     
  42. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Yep, same here. Especially around the nose the differences are very obvious, some other details too but they could have been changed over the years. Was the nose damaged in the 2016 Goodwood crash ?
     
  43. tomgt

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    Yes
     
  44. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    I found pictures online of the 2016 crash, but the nose was already altered compared to the car when I saw it in the nineties. So at Goodwood 2016 it already was the recreation I guess.
     
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  45. GBTR6

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    I would assume many, many, if not all of the 250 SWB's and others do not adhere strictly to the original specs. Many of these cars are sporting mods that were not period.

    Perry
     
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  46. Ed Niles

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    A few of Anthony Bamford's cars in 1971. 4399 in front. 6119_5907_4399GT (1971 Anthony Bamford Collection, UK)1 Ed Niles.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

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  47. miurasv

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    I don't know who owns 6713. Anyone know????
     
  48. tomgt

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    And what about the others?
    250LM & Co
     
  49. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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    2 250 LMs!
     
  50. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
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    "The same procedure as every year"
    Same car, same place, 2016

    <iframe width="725" height="433" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  51. PG1964

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    If somebody needs, I know a skilled man here in Turin who can scan the original body (and he already scanned a couple of GTOs). Ask me in PM.
     
  52. Daytonafan

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