1. I have started the new week 1 FerrariChat Update poll, please vote... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrarichat-com-update-week-1-poll.560487/
  1. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    It's been a more than a year since I last wrote on this thread, and today I just found out the other 275GTC I'm aware of, 8457, was on display in Paris for the Retromobile show last week. The color has changed, but you can still see the car is equipped with a roll bar inside. I also found this article which was written a year ago:

    "This 1966 Ferrari 275 GTC 'Corsa' is a purpose-built race car with steel body and alloy doors, hood and trunk. It is fitted with rare 130 camshafts. The engine was built to full 300bhp competition specifications for endurance racing.

    The Ferrari bearing the chassis number 08457 is very unique; it was badged by the factory as a GTC and not a GTB or GTB/C. The steel bodied car was built for racing, specifically endurance competition. The long front end and potent engine made it a viable contender for the Nurburgring 1000 KM race in 1966, where it placed first in the GT (over 2 liter) class. It was raced the following year at the Nurburgring 1000 KM race but unfortunately suffered a tire failure and was forced to retire.

    It has since been house in a private collection, residing in the United States. A frame up restoration was commissioned in 1999 and the task was given to GT Motors. After the restoration it was entered into historic racing events including the North American Historic Ferrari / Maserati Challenge, Le Mans Classic, Le Mans Legends, and Tour de Espana.
    By Daniel Vaughan | Feb 2011"

    Unfortunately, there is no way for me to check if the other GTC I know has the same characteristics, which would mean that this 08457 is not so unique after all!
     
  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    9,379
    #102 Marcel Massini, Feb 7, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
    08457 is a standard and stock road 275 GTB Berlinetta and has never been a GTB/C or anything close or similar. The fact that it has an after market rollbar doesn't make it a competition car. The car currently belongs to J.v.P. in B. and it was on the stand of Klaus Werner and Jan Lühn during the Retromobile last weekend. 08457 is listed on the factory paperwork as normal road Berlinetta. Even the fact that the third owner once raced it in the ADAC 1000 kms at the Nürburgring in June 1966 and that a photo of this car at this race was published on page 62 of the 1966 Ferrari Yearbook doesn't really make it a competition car. The original exterior color was Amaranto 20-R-188 with a Beige VM 3218 leather interior.

    Marcel Massini
     
  3. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    Thank you so much for your input. So it means this car and my friend's were both victims of an simple error in marking, and that the story of the special features was fake. It was always very clear those cars had nothing to do with GTB/C, which have very visible special features like the dry sump, but there was still a doubt about what was written in the article I pasted here before.
    Thanks again!
     
  4. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    3,139
    Marcel,
    Do you think that the car was just mis-stamped at the factory? Does anyone have a copy of the buildsheet?
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    9,379
    The factory may possibly have them.

    Marcel Massini
     
  6. jvpbel

    jvpbel Rookie

    Jul 28, 2006
    7
    Dear gentlemen,
    I am the current owner of the Ferrari 275 GTC #08457.
    Please allow me to add some real facts and recent information on this specific car (#08457) and the other 'GTC' stamped cars.
    First, let me tell you that it's not correct to say that #08457 and the other two 'GTC' stamped 275 berlinetta's left the factory as bog standard 275 berlinetta's. Otherwise they would't have been stamped 'GTC' in stead of GTB/2. This was certainly NOT a mistake, as some believe. More, the Classiche department now confirms this, especially because there is a second (08465) and even a third car (in Japan) around, all stamped 'GTC'.
    I personally visited the Classiche department last year with the complete history file of 08457. We went through all the different archives and Ferrari had to admit that the chassis stamping on #08557 was not a mistake at all. More, a second car, # 08465 is also stamped 'GTC' exactly like mine. The Classiche inspectors are even aware of a third car in Japan. They are presenting the case to the Classiche Committee this very month. They have also noticed that the build sheet has an extra 'dyno' sheet in it which shows for 08457 around 30 bhp more at 7500 rpm.

    08457, 08465 and the third 'GTC' stamped 275 Berlinetta were purpose built and stamped in order to give some wealthy privateers the possibility to go racing in the GT class. IF the cars would have been in alloy, IF they would have had a dry sump engine, 6 carburettors and an outside filler cap, they wouldn't have been allowed to race in the GT class ! Of course they didn’t differ much from the so called ‘standard’ 275 GTB/2’s but neither did the first series alloy GTB/C’s !

    # 08457 275 'GTC' left the factory on April 23 1966, on June 5 1966 it raced at the ADAC 1000 km Nürburgring. The 2 owners ‘in between’ were mere dealers (A Flecker was a friend of helmut Felder who owned and raced the car in '66 and '67. #08457 ran in the GT class, and it WON its class in the over 2 litre (25 OA). It ran again in the same race in 1967, but, unfortunately had to withdraw in lap 13 after tire failure. 08457 took part in numerous other races during the 1966-67 period. I'm in direct contact with the son of Helmut Felder, who has a lot more on his fathers' car then has ever been published.

    Correct, these 3 'GTC' stamped 275 berlinetta's weren't comparable with series II alloy bodied GTB/C's, but they certainly were stamped and built as a small series ‘cliente corsa’ intended for the GT class endurance races. I have Ferrari Classiche to back me up on this, so who do you believe…

    JVP





    Kind regards,





    Johan
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    9,379
    Mr. Van Puyvelde

    There was no such thing as a 275 GTB/2.
    You may want to post a photo showing any 2-cam 275 GTB with the stamping "GTB/2" (WITH the slash following the letter "B" and the "2"). As you know they were all just stamped "FERRARI 275 GTB*XXXX*. Not 275 GTB/2.

    Just as a side note: 08457 should not be confused with the alloy-bodied 07899 which was also owned by Helmut Felder of Remscheid-Lennep, Germany. Felder was the owner of Weissberg Inc., a machine tool manufacturing company. Felder sponsored several German drivers in the 1960s, such as Gunther Lohstraeter (250 GT SWB California Spider #2383 GT) and Mr. Plaut (250 GT SWB Berlinetta #1917 GT), and later also sponsored the European Interseries. Felder owned several Can-Am cars such as Porsche 917-30 and UOP Shadow. Felder was killed in 1994 in a plane crash in the Swiss mountains.

    BTW, 08465, the other car you mentioned, was never raced.

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. Birel

    Birel Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,391
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    Dear Marcel, was 7899 an original longnose or shortnose?

    Thanks , AT.
     
  10. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    Thank you all for the latest information you provided. This is very interesting, and my friend who owns 08465 will probably be very happy with this piece of news, although it may be safer to wait for Classiche's conclusions to be certain of anything.

    Anyway, and as Marcel pointed out, 08465 was never raced, and I doubt this particularity will give it much more value. It doesn't matter anyway, since my friend will most probably never sell the car, all this thread was definitely a simple attempt to know more about his car, that's all.

    I would be curious to know about the Japanese owner of the third GTC. Since I'm living in Japan now, I'd love to contact this person!

    Johan, if you'd like to contact the owner of 8465, please don't hesitate to send me a Private Message.
     
  11. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    In french, we say "only dummies never change their mind". I just heard something that makes this very true: my friend who owned 08465 just sold it a few months ago! I just spoke to him by phone, and he confirmed his car had changed hands, plates, as well as exterior and interior color. I feel very sad I won't get another chance to ride in such a great car, but I guess that after 35 years of ownership, it was time for him to move on to something else.

    I will never forget the 15 minutes I spent sitting in this moving machine, and I will never thank my friend enough for giving me this incredible opportunity.

    Cheers!
     
  12. jvpbel

    jvpbel Rookie

    Jul 28, 2006
    7
    Dear Furanku,

    I met your friend personally a few moths ago. Unfortunately He had already sold the car to a guy from Paris. I was very interested to know more details about 08465. Although he just sold the car, he was very open to me. He had it since 1976 (!) and of all 5 (!) 275 GTB's he had owned, he said it was the most special one. He told me that the car was very original when he bought it, and curiously, it behaved differently compared to all the other 275 berlinetta's he had owned. The suspension, road behavior and set-up of the car was much firmer, much harder. He also confirmed that the power of the engine was superior to his other cars. He gave me a very detailed photo of his chassis number and a 275 GTB/GTS workshop manual. very nice man indeed !

    To answer to your remark, Marcel, of course I know that the actual standard chassis stamping is ' 275*0xxxx*. I have owned a 275 GTB/2 shortnose myself. The matter we're discussing here is that this small series of 'GTC' stamped cars were stamped 'on purpose' by the factory, and not by mistake. The most powerful engines from the 275 GTB/2 series were selected for these cars and, most probably they were mildly 'race tuned'. This was not necessarily done by the factory, but perhaps by a nearby workshop or by the owners themselves (or on behalf of them). That's exactly what Classiche is going to find out. Important is that these modifications were done 'in period', and with the intention to go racing.

    JVP
     
  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    9,379
    When Michel B. got 08465 in 1976 from the museum in Hossegor (Near Bayonne/France) he had it fully restored and repainted deep blue and fitted with a red leather interior. The original exterior color of 08465 was Azzurro 106-A-32 with Nero VM 8500 (black) leather. 08465 spent the first four years in Italy and was regularly serviced at the Assistenza Clienti at Viale Trento Trieste in Modena (five times in total).

    Marcel Massini
     
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    Mr Massini, your database is unbelievable. To add a few elements to what you already wrote, when Michel bought the car, it was metallic red (rubino), with the rear part (the flat surface on which tail lamps are positioned) in black. Michel showed me the pictures, it wasn't looking that great!
    He had it painted as you wrote, but a second restoration took place between 2000 and 2009. His son did the paint job, which was very nice, and when I saw the car, it was black with red leather.

    Johan, Michel told me he was contacted by you, indeed. He didn't know your car had been displayed at Retromobile this year. He told me you were a very nice person too ;-)
    If you happen to know the serial number of the 3rd GTC, I'd like to have it so I can try to find the Japanese owner. By the way, 8457 and 8465 are two consecutive 275, I wonder if it's the case for the 3rd GTC?
     
  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    9,379
    Disagree. Not consecutive in terms of assembly numbers.
    08457 is assembly sequence #371.
    08465 is assembly sequence #374.

    Or, when you write "two consecutive 275", do you refer to the Scaglietti Body number?
    08457 has Scaglietti Body #376.
    08465 has Scaglietti Body #377.

    And back to 08457:
    This car was originally intended for Mr. Zoppas in Los Angeles/CA and only during the production changed to the first Italian owner Ugo Ravizza.

    It is well known that B. had 08465 restored again, in 2009, by Carrosserie Lecoq in France.

    Marcel Massini
     
  17. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    By consecutive, I meant that if you look at chassis stamp number, there is no 275 GTB between 8457 and 8465. 8459, 8461 and 8463 are not 275 GTB, that is all I know. Could you tell me what the assembly sequence number is?
     
  18. jvpbel

    jvpbel Rookie

    Jul 28, 2006
    7
    Dear Furanku,

    No, only Classiche knows which car the third 275 'GTC' is.
    They told me personally during my visit that there 'might' be a third car in Japan, and that they are currently enquiring about this.
    I will have direct contact with Classiche in the next couple of day's. It is possible that they already introduced the matter of the 'GTC' stamped 275 berlinetta's to the Classiche Committee. But, their desks are full of untreated files... so this can take a while...
    Did Michel B. also tell you that of all the 275's he had, the GTC felt completely different on the road ?
     
  19. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    Dear Johan,

    Yes, Michel told me that a few years ago. But since this was a very subjective point of view, I did not mention it in this thread. I also understand two of the same car can have rather different characters after so many years, and even maybe from the start.
    When you have information about Classiche's conclusions on the matter, I hope you feel free to post it here and let us know what the official point of view is!
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Johan

    Any car that finished first in class (25) OA at the 1000K at the Ring is impressive to me.

    Our little effort was only able to finish second in class 39 OA at last year's 24 but personally I found that a lot more rewarding than the Concours trophies I've won at Pebble and Villa d'Este.

    You should bring your car back to the Ring this May for the Historic race that precedes the 24. If you do you're most welcome to watch the 24 from our lounge where we'll be trying to finish in class as 08457 did 46 years ago with our some what modified F430 Scuderia.

    Best

    Jim
     
  21. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    You see, Ferrari? That's how you're supposed to modify your cars for competition purposes! If you had done it properly in 1966, just like Jim did recently, we wouldn't be wondering if those 275 GTC were "normal 275" of not! ;-)
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    There's no question that Ferrari often kept cars with minor tweaks and the best engines as measured by the dyno's for customers who were going to race them. Sal and Alberto often asked the factory to put a "good" engine into a car they were going to take racing and as WWOC's 355 Challenge car won the World Championship it seems to have worked.

    I think Mark Ketcham also had a 4 cam with tweaks that raced at the Ring as well and did well in the day.
     
  23. Furanku

    Furanku Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2009
    351
    Are you sure you're not talking about the same car? On his website, Mark Ketcham is still advertising 8457 , which he did have in 2009 when I contacted him, but is now obviously not in his possession.
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    I may be. I thought he told me his was a 4 Cam. Either way
    I saw the car and it sounded like it had hot cams by how it idled.
     
  25. jvpbel

    jvpbel Rookie

    Jul 28, 2006
    7
    Gentlemen, I think I've got great news.
    Today I've received the confirmation from Ferrari Classiche, through their inspector, that they are accepting the 275 "GTC" stamping as authentic and that the car can be certified as such. The matter was officially presented to the committee yesterday and they are finally giving credit to this car and officially recognise it as being one of a very small series of steel bodied 'cliente corsa' built.
    The car will receive a matching transaxle again, and some period racing mods might possibly even be accepted by the Classiche department.

    Most Ferrari enthussiasts and historians knew already that this specific car diserved recognition, and no one needed to proove its fantastic racing record anyhow. It's just nice to hear that the ferrari factory follows in the same footsteps...

    Thanks for your kind invitation Napolis ! I' hope I'll make it. I'td be a fine venue for this car !
     
  26. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Congrats. Very Cool!
     
  27. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,425
    It would be great to see some new photos of this car
     
  28. jvpbel

    jvpbel Rookie

    Jul 28, 2006
    7
    #126 jvpbel, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Attached some photo's taken a month ago.
    + Nürburgring 1966 - 67
    IMG_1107.jpg
    IMG_1108.jpg
    IMG_1109.jpg
    IMG_1114.jpg
    IMG_1115.jpg
    Felder Nuerburgring 1967 corr.jpg
    IMG_0410.jpg
     
  29. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,472
    Surrey, England
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    Beautiful car and great pics at the Ring.
     
  30. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,425
    #128 Vintage V12, Feb 25, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
    Thanks for posting. Great color.
     
  31. mlgtoeng

    mlgtoeng Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 1, 2010
    26
    Congratulations!
     
  32. omd78

    omd78 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 26, 2005
    11,804
    Breda, Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Martin
    Were those decals attached recently? Magnificent car.

    Gr. Martin
     
  33. Patrick Faucompre

    Mar 3, 2005
    96
    Hello Marcel,

    It is Lucien Mette, in Hossegor.

    Best, Patrick
     
  34. Patrick Faucompre

    Mar 3, 2005
    96
    Hello,

    Was your car certified with the rims on the pictures?
    I doubt very much that these ones are original. They are far too wide and seem to be newer Campagnolo reproductions.

    Best, Patrick
     
  35. jvpbel

    jvpbel Rookie

    Jul 28, 2006
    7
    #133 jvpbel, May 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    What do you think of this great picture from 275 'GTC' 08457 at the 1967 Nürburgring 1000 km ? It's a picture I couldn't resist sharing with you all..
    best,

    Johan
    CCF04042012_00009.jpg
     
  36. Atombender

    Atombender Karting

    Apr 6, 2012
    163
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Maybe it's just the angle but its ride weight seems close to some modern SUV's
     
  37. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2008
    5,385
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #135 miurasv, Jun 15, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
  38. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,122
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    It's lifting off of the Hill. When we crest that we're in the air at that point.
     
  39. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
    950
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Le Monde Edmond
  40. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2008
    5,385
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
  41. etienne

    etienne F1 Veteran

    Jan 21, 2006
    5,558
    Ferrari World...
    #139 etienne, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    To complete and refresh this very interesting thread, let me share some pics i've took recently, at the 10000 tours du Castellet.
    IMG_9389R.jpg
    IMG_0907R.jpg
    IMG_0916R.jpg
    IMG_0912R.jpg
    IMG_0908R.jpg
     
  42. mr.modena

    mr.modena Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2003
    1,231
    Czech republic
    Full Name:
    Jaroslav Hanus
    this great car is in the Czech republic now.
    Photos from Finali Mondiali 2015: Czechferrari.cz
     
  43. ropponiaroppon

    Jan 23, 2016
    1
    #141 ropponiaroppon, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dear Gentlemen,

    275GTC in Japan should be the first 275GTC(#08445 ) I guess. It was imported with 2 other 275 GTB/4 in 1968. It is owned by one family ever since. Originally, it was in Red on Black interior. It has been color changed to Silver
    IMG_2121.jpg
    IMG_2120.jpg
     

Share This Page