350/400GT thread

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by FredParoutaud, Sep 5, 2007.

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  1. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
    1,438
    Ok, so here's the thread. All you folks talking about various 350/400GTs out there, I'd like to see some chassis numbers etc.

    So far we have an upcoming 400 Interim purchase this weekend (details to come) and a friend's 350 w/factory 400 engine being restored.

    If we can get some of these frame/engine numbers going that would be great.

    I own #655 (engine #638) which is a 400GT 2+2. Chassis/engine number is on the plate smack in the middle of the firewall, also chassis number is welded to the frame just below the passenger-side dizzy, engine number stamped into the block in-between the heads (under the water pipe so hard to see)

    I've been keeping a list of 350/400s for a few years now, based on Glen's excellent list (with his permission) and if I can help with any info I will. My list goes from the GTV through 1354 and includes the Miuras produced at the same time. I don't keep track of owners or anything like that (unless it's somebody I know), just frame/engine numbers. They run pretty consistantly every 3rd number, so next car after mine is 658, etc. (first dozen or so 350s were sequential: 101, 102, 103 etc)

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
  2. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    #2 2NA, Sep 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It seems appropriate to kick off this thread with what arguably could be described as "The Mother of all Lamborghinis" The 350 GTV.
    350gtvf.jpg
    350gtv.jpg
    350gtv1.jpg
    350gtvfr.jpg
    350gtvr.jpg
    350gtvp.jpg
    350gtvs.jpg
    350gtvur.jpg
    350gtvlogo.jpg
    350gtvir.jpg
    350gtvi.jpg
    350gtve.jpg
     
  3. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    It is indeed the mother, and what a mother! :)

    Nice pix.

    I took a photo of a neat document up on the factory museum wall, where they have the old workbench and tools, etc. Describes the very first lambo engine starting up:

    http://www.400gt.com/articles/first_test/first_test.htm

    (I had it translated by somebody in an Italian Yahoo Group!)

    Wonder if it's the same engine that's in the GTV? Certainly, the GTV has Bizzarrini written all over it.

    Which is not necessarily a bad thing!

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
  4. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Do you think there are enough places to put the oil in? LOL
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Compare how different the GTV has become from its original interior disposition to its restored state: steering wheel, shift lever, seats, door panels, dashboards. To hell with a sympathetic correct-for-period restoration! LOL. Very cool car though.

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  6. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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    Wasn't the GTV dry sump? Can't recall exactly...but that could explain the 3rd oil cap on the right

    Fred
     
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  8. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    I noticed the steering wheel right off. The swooping spokes were perfect for the car. It might be hanging on a nail in someones garage somewhere.

    When I look at the miserable picture of the car "unrestored" after sitting neglected in the back lot for years I wonder about the other opportunities that went overlooked.

    If only I had a "Wayback Machine".
     
  9. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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    #8 FredParoutaud, Sep 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Another pic -- I guess it's starting to be restored at this point...?
    350gtv.jpg
     
  10. RockaForte

    RockaForte Formula Junior

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  11. alberto

    alberto Formula 3
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    Unless the factory was restoring VW's, it looks to me that the factory did not do the restoration?

    Alberto
     
  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I understand Romano Bernadoni's EmilianAuto did most of the work. Autosport did the body and Paratelli the interior...

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  13. Jota 5084

    Jota 5084 Formula 3
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    Is`nt the 350GTV owned by a Japanese collector? If so, did he by the car unrestored from the factory?
     
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  15. silhouette

    silhouette Karting
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    Yes it is owned by a well known Japanese collector. Joe is correct about restoration by EmilianAuto with encouragement and assistance from Stefano Pasini. He did not buy it from the factory who were never interested in restoring the car
     
  16. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    couple of notes from Stefano about the GTV restoration (from the VLG):

    >>I still regret having sold the GTV after the restoration....but I didn't decide, frankly.

    As Fred already said, no second GTV was EVER produced. Even the 'first' GTV (i.e. the one I restored) was not really a complete car, as you know. The origins of the mock-up that someone thinks as being the 'second GTV', I've been told weird histories.....it surely never was intended to be finished as a car, only as something to study panel modification on.<<

    >>
    the GTV restoration project was very interesting, and the best part of it was researching for the correct parts to fit. The worst was to find a meeting point between the ideas of so many people who, having been at Lamborghini in 1963-64, remembered a lot of things that didn't always match. The restoration of the Urraco 'Rallye' was easier: everything was there, and I found also one 4-valves engine to fit (eventually).

    The car didn't have to be lenghtened: the 350GTV engine fits quite easily in the bay without having to change the original Webers (vertical). In fact the bay was designed so that the dry sump engine sits way back and low: putting the engine so way back meant we had to cut a 350GT driveshaft as the production one was too long. The bulkhead/firewall had to be cut accordingly; the other tricky part was fitting the pedals, as they had never been installed.

    Frankly, it was everything more or less ready to be completed. Don't believe people who said (before the restoration, but someone is trying to say so even today!) that Ferruccio cancelled the GTV because it was impossible to build it. True those curved glasses were extremely expensive and a nightmare to manufacture and install, the trunk shape was weird, the position of the engine meant noise and heat in the cockpit, but the GTV could be completed in a few weeks and sold.

    Ferruccio told me at the time that the half-finished GTV was not the car he wanted. It really wasn't on par with the dramatic drawings that Scaglione had submitted to him at the beginning, so he decided to modify the styling quite radically following the ideas of some friends of him and, of course, of Bianchi Anderloni at Touring (who, incidentally, sketched a very credible idea of the body for the P400 chassis in fall, 1965).
    <<
     
  17. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    To me it sounds like the "Ultimate Restoration Project" (but I like building things).

    It was never a "real" car in the beginning, just a partly done development exercise.

    The opportunity to "flesh it out" and finish the overlooked details must have been wonderful (also one big pain in the lower regions).
     
  18. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    That car (GTV) is beautiful !!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #17 EMILIO, Mar 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    some old 350 GT pics
    EPSN0039.jpg
    EPSN0040.jpg
     
  20. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    That car is awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Bella macchina


    Check out the 1st generation trick emblem.
     
  21. Marcello

    Marcello Formula 3

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    #19 Marcello, Mar 6, 2008
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    That is #0107, freshly restored.

    Ciao!
    Marcello
    0107 350GT Koot 2004.11.01.13a Padova MdL 001.jpg
     
  22. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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  23. Marcello

    Marcello Formula 3

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    #21 Marcello, Mar 7, 2008
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    Hi Fred,

    Yes, nice to hear from our friend Marcel de Lange again!
    When you are digging in Lamborghini history,
    his name will pop-up everywhere, so he's still with us somehow..

    The 350 GT #0107 was spotted in Maastricht in January 2007,
    on belgium dealerplates ZDB-800.
    The car was probably driven by Dutchman Paul Koot,
    who was involved in the restoration.

    I'm not sure if the car was actually sold to Belgium, but could be.

    Best regards,
    Marcel Wallenburg
    0107 350 GT Maastricht 2007-01 a.jpg
    0107 350 GT Maastricht 2007-01 b.jpg
    0107 350 GT Maastricht 2007-01 c.jpg
     
  24. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    Fred

    We want to go the other way. 500k is way toooooo much.
     
  25. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #23 EMILIO, Mar 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    some more of the same car and others
    EPSN0038.jpg
    EPSN0041.jpg
    EPSN0031.jpg
     
  26. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    lol! Ralph, I have no control over that. Who knows, you may get your wish and things might drop right back down, like they did in 1992.

    I'm just saying that if the 350/400s selling this past year are any indication....watch out. Cuz they were not great examples (and selling for $250k-350k range)

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
  27. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Yes it is! Marcel was the best, I'm sure he's smiling right now.

    (You have some big shoes to fill) :)

    Fred
     
  28. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    #26 Bertocchi, Mar 11, 2008
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    Here is a photo of one I did a lot of work on. Great cars!!
    400GT.JPG
     
  29. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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    Beautiful David! Chassis number?

    Thanks,

    Fred
     
  30. Marcello

    Marcello Formula 3

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    #28 Marcello, Jul 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys,

    Keep up the good work here!

    Here's a nice picture I took in June 2004.

    Ciao!
    Marcello
    0217 350GT 006 Duindigt 2004-06.jpg
     
  31. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    Fred

    Any idea how much an original bi-color (with the diagonal slant) Lamborghini emblem is worth ?
     
  32. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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    No idea Ralph....sounds expensive tho :)

    Paul is just finishing #102 for Pebble -- wonder if he needs one?

    Fred
     
  33. Marcello

    Marcello Formula 3

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    #31 Marcello, Jul 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, #102 had a relatively minor accident circa 1973 which damaged the nose..did the badge survive?
    If Paul needs one, I could contact the guys who restored #107, perhaps they remanufactured one as well?

    Here's a picture of the badge of #106

    Best regards,
    Marcel
    0106badge.jpg
     
  34. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Hi Marcel,

    My thoughts too, tho you'd think he would have figured something out by now being that the concours is a month away and his 102 will be in it.

    I emailed him re the badge.

    I remember a couple of years ago a 400-owner I know was getting ready for a show and needed the spare tire hold-down screw -- he found one for only $800! :) (probably cost double that now, like everything else with these cars)

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
  35. 1121034

    1121034 Guest

    #33 1121034, Jul 6, 2008
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  36. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Very nice :)

    Looks like a 350GT left, 400GT 2+2 right. Any chassis numbers?

    Fred
     
  37. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    and a nice silver 400GT 2+2 -- looks like mine :) but this one has a sunroof. Interesting, there are a few with sunroofs around the world, no idea if that was ever done at the factory or not, but I wouldn't think so.

    Fred
     
  38. 1121034

    1121034 Guest

    #37 1121034, Jul 6, 2008
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  39. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    Left - Switzerland -Z├╝rich
    Right - Netherlands

    I don't know this swiss car yet :)
     
  40. Kram

    Kram Formula Junior
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    #39 Kram, Jul 6, 2008
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    Anyone want to guess where this was taken?
    A. Gray Day.jpg
     
  41. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Wow, never seen those wheels on a 400 before...what are they? My first thought was Maserati...?

    As for location, my first thought (also probably wrong) is California as we have a lot of similar lighthouses up and down the coast, but not sure we have any with the radio towers...

    Fred
     
  42. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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  43. alberto

    alberto Formula 3
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    I actually rather like it. I've seen a few like that, apparently all in the same color. If I had an extra $450k burning a hole in my pocket, I'd be all over it.

    Alberto
     
  44. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior
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    Very nice pictures! And even better cars. :)

    Usually I don't make these stuped "I need some part to my car," but this is exeption.

    I have a friend here and he is just finising restaration on 350GT and he has a proplem to find doorhandles (outside), they had a proplem with chromium plating and it is not posible to use these old ones enymore.

    So my question is from where are Lamborghini doorhandle from, which car that is. (Fiat, Alfa, Lancia? what model), does Jarama use same doorhandle?

    I have try to find these for my friend who is not so in these computer stuff, as you can help me, we can have this 350 out on the road again. as I understand car is finnished, exept doorhandles after nearly 10 years of restoration. Please help, if you can!
     
  45. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3
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    I am beginning a ground up restoration of 1966 400GT Interim # 0484. The work will be performed by Gary Bobileff, and begin right after Monterey.
     
  46. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Hi John,

    Very cool! I believe this is an Estes car? Have you seen our Estes archives?

    http://www.400gt.com/estes/index.htm

    Don't have your 484 listed there, but I'm pretty sure Estes sold 484 "as new." I'm assuming you have engine 448 in there?

    If you have any pictures or other info you wouldn't mind sharing that would be neat to have it here.

    Gary's pretty good with these cars, he did Jorge's #928 a few years ago:

    http://www.400gt.com/photos/sd/sd.htm

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
  47. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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    Doorhandles are tough Mikael. Even with a proper x-ref, typically you can't find them. I've had Fiat x-ref's before for certain 400GT parts, and I go to the Fiat expert and he laughs and says "Boy, I wish I could find that part even for our Fiats!"

    Tough going out there, but I'll ask around.

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
  48. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Ok, here's the "good news/bad news" on the door handles:

    >>Yes Jack you're correct. The door handles to 350 and 400 are interchangeable and are also
    fitted to the Islero, as well as I believe the first Espada.

    Not that this will help but the same handle is also fitted to:

    Maserati 5000GT
    Maserati Mexico (early series)
    Monteverde Hai 450

    And, last but by no means least, the Hillman Zimp' zagato bodied Imp (3 built)

    Cheers

    Clive
    <<

    So I'd head off to the wreckers in search of a Monteverde Hai 450 -- hopefully it still has the doorhandles on it ;^D

    I'll try to find out if anybody is remanufacturing...

    Cheers,

    Fred
     
  49. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3
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    Fred:

    I'' post photos as we begin. Yes original 4 liter engine.

    Valentino has record of this car as originally Silver, not burgundy as on Greg's list. If you have any info on the car, I'd be in debt to you.

    John
     
  50. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

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    Hi John,

    What is Greg's list?

    Fred
     
  51. FredParoutaud

    FredParoutaud Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Also John, I hope you have a copy of the factory buildsheet for the car...that'll have the original color, regardless of what you find elsewhere.

    Fred
     

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