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Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by FredParoutaud, Sep 5, 2007.
I meant the 2+2 cars. Still same chassis there too?
yes still..., the same as Islero 2+2
Polo Storico will do that, I think. They are doing a great job. But you can ask the framebuilder, he is still on duty.
The 400GT frame is more heavy than the 350GT. Same advance as the Miura.
Ok that's all you have
I have interviewed Marchesi he has confirmed me that exception of the body supports the structure frame is identical
You have also to read the brochure specs and homologation specs... for instance width is identical at 1,73 m... lenght 4,46 m... for 350 GT, 400 GT, 400 GT 2+2
I have interviewed Marazzi in Varese who also confirmed to have used the 400 GT 2+2 frame with a new body he has created...
Only the last 11 cars have the new 400GT frame.
Not my job. But 23 Interim is a fairy tale.
not my job too... but if you want to argue, you need to feed us too...
I have identified the 23x Interim...
Among them, Gary Bobileff has restored 5x of them, frame is same, as I wrote there are slight différences in the structure to support body, as well as small differences in some other areas... but globally frame is identical, it is the 1st design conserve for the developpment of the range and in terms of sizes too !
to illustrate here is a 400 GT frame...
If you did identify 23 cars, please let us know the VINs
you will discover these in my encyclopedia when it will be released...
hé yes... that's how it is, and how it is progressing...
Those tubes have nothing to do with any Lamborghini built GT at all!
the front square sections yes, it was a 400 GT 2+2 modified to receive a Bizzarini body...
but you can look in De La Rive box book they are pictures of the frame too.
It's kind of early over here yet for popcorn but I'll go warm up a batch with some butter, salt and if this goes long enough we can even break out the bourbon too!
I have to admit that I'm sort of fascinated about all of this murky early 350/400GT stuff and have never quite followed all of it. The very idea that Lamborghini had any hard standards on this stuff back then and kept meticulous records about it is hysterical enough all by itself! I can well beleive that Olivier has worked very hard trying to figure it all out. Too bad that the thread's starter is no longer with us because Fred was veritable fountain of information on this stuff. But we've got some other good folks here. Someone should drag Gary into this thread. Probably kicking and screaming ...
Carry on ...
This looks like the chopped up 400GT frame that was in California for sale a few years ago.
Will Marchesi share the drawings? That would settle this discussion!
I know that between the 350GT and 400GT, the mounting for the rear differential is not the same. (ZF versus Lamborghini rear-end) And yes, I know the switch over point is another topic.
The mounting support for the transmission is different on cars with ZF-gearbox or Lamborghini-gearbox.
And the trailing arms for the rear uprights are mounted forwards on two-seaters (big rear window) and backwards on the four-seaters (small rear window) and Isleros.
But the chassis never had any round tubes!
Isn't Olivier saying that the round tubes modification were for a custom Bizzarrini body that was placed on that specific chassis? That's how I read it.
And here's the link, Bogus Bizzarrini,
Bogus Bizzarrini: 1967 Lamborghini 400GT
I shared with Polo Storico, so ask them if you want a quicker answer...
Or you can just check my 350 GT Register: 350 GT / 400 GT Internazionale | Ferrari - Lamborghini Register Nederland
The cars that left factory as 400 GT are listed, and otherwise the cars are listed as 350 GT 4 litri, as in fitted with a 4 liter engine afterwards. I will not use the term Interim on either of them ;-)
Hi Marcel, can you clear down your PM box, I'd like to send you a PM. Thanks
I feel from a drawing that I have that they were planning on the Lamborghini transmission and differential early on. The date of the drawing is April 9th 1965 the copy date that I have is March 30th 1966.
Again this is just a blueprint drawing, this does not mean these things were manufacture and put into production.
I feel that it is necessary to find out when the transmission and the differential went into actual production and on the line being installed in cars. The drawing is talking about 350GT.
My feeling basically is there were 3 production frames.
Salisbury with forward rear lower control arm suspension, Lamborghini rear diff with forward lower control arm suspension and Lamborghini rear diff with rearward lower suspension arm.
Wow! Beautiful drawing!
If I may ask, where did you get it? Do you have some more to share? This is really invaluable information.
Anybody knows the vin of this one? I think #595, maybe already posted.
I confirm, it's #0595.
I appreciate and agree on your description, but globally these frames are identical on 80% of the lenght, only the evolution of the diff choices leaded to évolutions... but still remained in the same philosophy...
the real change of frame appeared with the Espada/Jarama vs the generation of 350/400/Islero, in fact this was my point some posts ago !
Regarding the 400GT chassis, here are some scans from a Swedish period Magazine.
Great to see these photos showing the 350 display chassis being put together. Looks like they're figuring out the routing of the exhaust system.
Early 350s used a two piece driveshaft. The later 350s had the ZF transmission with a longer (plus sliding) output shaft. This allowed a one piece driveshaft. The Lamborghini transmission cars used a one piece driveshaft.
Done! ready to receive a PM, Thanks.
Thank you. PM sent!
In order to appreciate the similarities, here are 2x pics, one 350 GT from a book and one from the parts book of 400 GT 2+2.
it seems clear that the front and middle section are strictly identical, the rear section is identical on the lower end, just the top end is slightly modified, which means it is not a complete different frame as it was claimed erroneously in a previous post !
Again, the frame will differ when the Espada & Jarama frame will be produced...
This one was reformed..
I ve seen another one, in his original body.
Let me check the picture.
Only 2 like this one.
yes, of course only 2 original 350 Spyder... #0325 the gold one you show belonging to Swiss collector and the black one #0328 belonging to Quatari collector !
If it's 0465 it is the same car that was offered by Lutziger some time ago. It looks like the car has been resprayed from silver to very light grey. Mirrors are gone. changed from Quad to Single headlights now also. Strange front license plate? Has anyone perhaps saved more of the pictures from Modena Motorsport of this car?
Hi Olivier, Have you checked the Touring body number of this car #0409 as well perhaps? Think it could be #18918, but not sure..
yes Marcello, here are some more from Modena Motorsport...
Yes, #0409, I did an error typing, there is no Touring plate riveted, was lost during its existence...
But from my factory period records it is listed as #18918...
Ahh, mercie! This car was owned by Dutchman Han Pomp long time ago. 0465 does not fit exactly between 0463 and 0469, strange number, and with an early body......
What does the record say about 0465?
Find this one some years ago, very nice model, totally original. No SN, was impossible to see the engine.
Very nice pictures! Still a mystery car for me. 400 GT 2+2 Marazzi in Amaranto/Nero. Here's another picture of the same car I think...
Thanks, I just remembered my celular stay with no battery when I did the pics..
So it s à mystery car.. yes I imagine when you know the owner. The real mystery is : how big is his collection!?
The man doesn't want to show all his cars.
For me the mystery is who makes this picture?
0220 is updated:
I have just updated #0220 in my 350 GT Register, and have used your pictures with your name as well, to get a nice overview of the history of this car. Hope that's ok and that you like it.
Thanks a lot for sharing, and great that another barnfind car is back on the road again,
looking fantastic! Grazie Mille!
I'm still looking for any period pictures of the car when it was owned by Jim Kaminsky,
who was president of the Lamborghini Club America for many years. There has to be more pictures then the only one I have? Anybody?
Here is the 350 GT Register, you can click on the little pictures for more:
Marcello, please bear in mind that he is currently listed as a banned user here so you may wish to contact him directly.
Meanwhile I hope the images of 0223 taken by my son which I sent last night worked for you as requested.
Hope you are well.
Hi Joe, thank for letting me know, I will contact him privately.
And yes, perfect pictures of 0223, thanks a lot!