430 Scud 'back' to a 360 CS

Discussion in '360/430' started by Slickhillsy, Sep 6, 2017.

  1. I have started the new week 1 FerrariChat Update poll, please vote... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrarichat-com-update-week-1-poll.560487/
  1. Slickhillsy

    Slickhillsy Karting

    Aug 22, 2012
    107
    Greetings to all. Thought I'd post a question I've not seen asked before. I read of many owners moving through cars 360 CS > 430 Scud > 458 Speciale but not heard mention of anyone going the other way.

    I personally have always LOVED the 360 CS and just missed out buying one before test driving and ultimately settling on my (very mush loved) Scud. I do however feel there is a personal itch unscratched by not running a CS at some point.

    So to the question - has anyone gone from a Scud to a CS and if so would love to hear your thoughts...
     
  2. 24000rpm

    24000rpm Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2012
    1,717
    Asia and the U.S.
    coming from a proud owner of CS.

    I've driven the scud from time to time, buddy's car.

    I have to tell you, you won't go back, once you go scud.

    mind you that the above comment was assuming value of car is no object.


     
  3. Spider68

    Spider68 Karting

    Aug 21, 2010
    71
    Switzerland
    I added an CS to my Scud, and would not want to miss it! The CS is rawer than the Scud and the sound of the engine just unbelievable! You should add not switch[emoji12]. I do agree that the Scud is by far better car , nevertheless The CS is very desirable


    Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk
     
  4. jason1st

    jason1st F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
    5,634
    ATL/CHS/MIA
    Full Name:
    Jason
    I agree with "add" not "switch".
     
  5. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
    NEVER - having had both
     
  6. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,163
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Johan
    I have had my 430 Scuderia since 2011 and it is a keeper. Driven the CS, great drive, very involving and raw, but there is no way I would switch it for my Scuderia.
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. Slickhillsy

    Slickhillsy Karting

    Aug 22, 2012
    107
    Thanks all... General consensus seems to back it would be a tough move to go back. I am (as others have advised) looking to see if I can push the stretch to next year and add instead of switch - that would of course be the VERY best option! ;-)

    Have to agree the Scud is an incredible car - nothing else in the market place I'd sell it for.

    Appreciate the feedback!
     
  9. Thrasher

    Thrasher Formula Junior

    May 26, 2012
    261
    London UK
    i backed out...started with a red CS, eventually upgraded to a blue Scud...sold it within a couple month and went back to CS.
    Cost me alot more the second red CS and with alot more miles...should have stuck with the original one!
     
  10. Slickhillsy

    Slickhillsy Karting

    Aug 22, 2012
    107
    What made you sell out and go back to the CS?
     
  11. Thrasher

    Thrasher Formula Junior

    May 26, 2012
    261
    London UK
    definitely not the speed/time around Spa or Silverstone...but the noise, the gearbox clunks when pushing up, the emptiness of the cabin etc. the rawness

    AND with time the Strad's design gets better and better, the initial drawing from an architectural point of view is purer more so than the tortuous design of the Scud
     
  12. Slickhillsy

    Slickhillsy Karting

    Aug 22, 2012
    107
    Must admit the lines and design of the CS are stunning from any angle - however the Scud is still a looker, much more aggressive and purposeful.
     
  13. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    These days neither the Scud or the CS are the last word in road going outright speed vs the latest crop of forced induction supercars like the 488's or the Mclaren 675LT's and 720's but does it even matter if your enjoying yourself and having fun?

    I'd wager that the majority of drivers and owners haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to truely driving the pants off of their CS's or 430 Scuderia's properly, especially out on the track. Its ofcourse nice knowing you have the fastest car in the block to feed your ego but for true enjoyment it really doesn't matter very much, learn to properly use what you've got and you'll have a lot of enjoyment vs chasing endless power and torque figures (metered out by a computer regardless of what your doing on the human side of the equation, i.e. your not driving!).

    Both are very capable and with a small amount of tweaking of the geo setup, ride height's and tires they can handle like you just wouldn't believe. I've been driving my particular example for over a decade (!) and still loving it!

    I've never understood the comparisons about one car being significantly 'better' to drive than another. Really? That depends on what your preference is, both do however require significantly different approaches to driving to extracting the best from them. The CS loves rev's (thanks to its finely balanced race spec engine and titanium conrods, and while titanium missing from the Scuderia's engine, in its place is larger capacity and gobs more torque and power). You have to drive the CS more like a Lotus and keep the engine in its sweet spot and on the boil, carrying more speed in and out of corners to get the best out of it. Its not a torque monster like we've come to expect from more modern supercars but for me that doesn't make it any less enjoyable.

    I've got a Bentley with nearly 700hp driving its 4wd chassis which is amusing in its own kind of way (6 litres, 12 cylinders and twin turbo's) but its not even close to the kind of enjoyment I get out of my lightweight 360...
     
    dang2407 likes this.
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. Slickhillsy

    Slickhillsy Karting

    Aug 22, 2012
    107
    Hi Trev.

    Completely agree with the above and my line of questioning was never about 'faster' or 'better'. These cars are my personal sweet spot of performance, emotion and looks. Don't really care for the latest kit and no even looking for the fastest of these two, more a question around a change of scene / experience. This the only way to tick the box is to wait and roll a CS next to the Scud as the Scud's not for selling :)

    If I want hypercar fast I jump on my Desmo! ;)
     
  16. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Karting

    Feb 25, 2014
    179
    Thermal, California
    Full Name:
    Yes
    I prefer the CS over the Scud. If I had to only have one, it would be the CS. Why? Raw visceral flighty. It is simply a more engaging car full of life and edginess. Full disclosure, I have twice as many Scud/16M as CS.
     
    Slickhillsy likes this.
  17. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
    Trev says it all but if you don't track it don't even think about a CS as revving the arse of it on public roads is neither easy nor enjoyable
     
  18. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Lol, depends on how you view these things.

    Keeping the engine in the sweet spot of torque really does make the CS engine sing like few others, its a biblical soundtrack really, espeically in these days of noise restrictions, more so in a tunnel so I wouldn't say its 'not enjoyable' but its really much harder to drive it quickly and progressively among fast cars [I'd say this means its maks it quite a challenge (!)] vs the Scud which typically uses its reserves of torque to help out the driver moder (and that's not even to mention its E-diff).

    You can indeed drive a CS very progressively but its demands more of the driver and it requires more skill than car laden with more torque and power like the 430 Scuderia. I like both cars and its really chalk and cheese to decide which is better...
     
  19. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Oct 29, 2010
    6,400
    Different strokes for different folks...I'm usually looking for a spot to wind the engine out when in the CS. That sound in the upper rpm range is one of its best features :)
     
    dang2407 and Slickhillsy like this.
  20. 'Trust'

    'Trust' Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 31, 2012
    82
    Although I can't answer the specific question, having both a Scud and Speciale, AND money considered, Scud all day long. Even money considered, I'd have a hard time letting that one go over the Speciale. I imagine it's the same for a CS.
     
  21. koop

    koop Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 30, 2011
    753
    CS for a raw driving experience. Speciale for performance. Scud for little bit of both :)

    If I were to buy another fcar today, it would definitely be the CS, but no way I would sell my scud.
     
  22. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    1,923
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    I would never go back from my Scud to a CS. My experience with a CS back to back to the Scuderia was a huge disappointment; a lot of noise about nothing. The engine is simply way too weak and the outdated transmissions is annoying, the rest is an average "ok" (chassis, brakes etc.). The CS for a "raw driving experience"; a popular statement which is for sure true, because the car has definitely nothing else to offer. Oh I forgot, the CS is "a clever investment"..., hmmm, the same as with the Scuderia, a lot of wishful thinking, I recommend to go in the casino, that makes more fun.
     
    Slickhillsy likes this.
  23. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    You could also state the same opinion about the 430 Scud vs a 458 Speciale, engine is way to weak, outdated transmission is annoying, rest is an average "ok"... etc... Personally I see this as a bit harsh but lets face it, Ferrari wouldn't sell the next "new" thing if there where not tangible improvements between models. Its bound to feel faster! The difference is about 20% in all areas. Enough to be noticeable.

    My view is "Good enough for what exactly?". Everything is relative to expectations. None of these cars are anything other than toys for enjoyment. Focusing on Power is very dangerous thing, its like a drug (which all car companies know!), it corrupts you with its allure. Can you have too much of a good thing? Hmmm... possibly and car companies will keep selling it spoon fed in increments ;)

    The chassis is actually virtually identical between the 360 and 430 series, same balljoints, shocks, mounting points, basic Alcoa chassis itself, pretty much everything except for a few geometry tweaks and a few additional braces to make it 20% stiffer. A bit more camber and slightly wider tires make the real difference to available grip between the CS and Scuderia, both easily upgradable on either car.

    Where the differences are here are actually in the electronics package which was significantly upgraded to allow deployment of the right amount of power without spinning you off the road via the E-Diff and upgraded Bosch ABS. Upping power required this since most people (who haven't tried to learn their cars chassis behaviour...) would really struggle to control the car with extra hp and torque through the rear wheels if there was no computer assistance helping them to apportion the right amount of useable power to the ground for the conditions available in and out of corners, regardless of what % of throttle you apply. That however is the rub (or the rob depending on how you see it) with computers taking over its a slippery slope. It starts to remove the human element, some of the challenge, the tactile feelings that you get with modern cars, thankfully at least Ferrari still allow you to turn things off.

    Even with things like brakes you have to be careful since the move from 380mm front brakes to 398mm CCM's between the CS and the Scud (5% bigger discs but with a [surprise surprise] 20% wider sweeped pad area on th actual disc (!)... leads to more weight. Its a fine balance but with more power comes the requirement to shed the speed quicker, add 20% more power and you need 20% better stopping...

    So basically the Scud is 20% faster than a stock CS. I actually upgraded my car to be faster than a stock Scud but my preferred route to faster was less weight and better handling, not more power and more electronics. It means I feel the chassis signaling its on the ragged edge, I sense the slip of the tires, I apply the corrections myself through careful modulation of the throttle, brakes and steering adjustments. Yes I'm doing more to keep the car driving progressively fast but this is more enjoyable for this enthusisast than simply point and squirt we are now seeing with the horsepower wars. Don't get me wrong I like fast cars too but I very much feel it begins to rob a lot of the things I look for in an enjoyable driving experience. I think the CS is therefore a keeper for these reasons and then it compliments the crazy fast modern cars like 488's and 675LTs and 720's of the world. Both are brilliant in their own way but they drive completely differently and I get different things from each car experience...

    My big problem with cars with 500hp+ on the road is they begin to feel quite boring at even quite fast (very illegal) speeds, its only when you start driving them at 7/10th do they start to feel exciting and by that point your in license loosing territory...Even the CS suffers a bit from this so you really need to ask how fast do I really want to be driving on a public road? (Where 80% of the miles are covered for the average guy)... Tricky isn't it?
     
    tuscany and dang2407 like this.
  24. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    1,923
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    Please do not forget, there are a few Scuderia owners which A) can also drive their cars at the limit and B) which simply turn off the electronic assistants to get a maximum of feedback and fun (there is a small red lever on the steering wheel). ;)

    Let us be honest and objective, if you have the choice between a Scuderia and a CS, why the hell should someone go for the CS? As written by yourself, in many respects more or less the same technology. But, and this is obvious for everyone, in for a track oriented car decisive parameters the Scud has clear advantages: with its complete new high rev engine in the F136 ED specification superior power and torque capabilities, better brakes and with the F1-Superfast a breathtaking and unique transmission. You optimized your CS? Not happy with the "standard" performance capabilities? Excuse me, but I could not resist.

    If someone likes the appearance from a CS more and the performance capabilities are not so important, yes, then go for the CS. But soberly considered speak no measurable facts for the CS.

    My personal summary: considered in isolation, the CS is a masterpiece (you will not believe it, but I like this car). In comparison with its direct successor the CS is my second choice. In consideration with so many other today available alternatives (hyper light agile hp/torque-monsters) the CS is in a difficult position.
     
    Slickhillsy likes this.
  25. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
  26. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
    time to get driving REAL and the one thing the CS most certainly doesnt have is 500 hp, most rolling tests are in reality max 380, the depreciation curve for a CS might accelerate once again
     
  27. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
    whereas at least with a SCUD you have 500 hp and a beautiful design
     
  28. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
    The CS becomes a $250,000 wall painting compared to the 911 GT3 touring
     
  29. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    ...hehe, I can see your highly passionate about your choice in the Scud and thats great. They are fantastic cars just as the 458 that followed and the Speciale that followed that...

    I'm merely pointing out that the decision for many purchasers isn't as clear cut as the one you present.

    There are many areas of Ferrari ownership experience which aren't all about outright performance stats with things such as residuals, sonics, styling, the way the car makes you feel plus a lot of subjectivity, personality traits creeping in. Indeed the CS is much less polished than the Scud and with its more crude electronics more of a challenge to drive quickly. I'd go so far to say that the Scud does feel more premium, more luxury, quieter cabin, more comfortable, less like a street racer with its switchable driving modes and luxuries like tyre pressure monitors it is much more modern feeling and ofcourse its 20% quicker, so sometimes perhaps even indulging in peoples fantasies of being a racing driver is that what does it on the CS. It really doesn't matter that there are faster Ferrari's than it, its how it makes you "feels" doing its thing, plus a hell of a lot of intangables along the way like the stones clipping the underside of the car (lol). Pretty much everything that follows is quicker... no suprises there then.
     
    tuscany and Thrasher like this.
  30. Thrasher

    Thrasher Formula Junior

    May 26, 2012
    261
    London UK
    The 430Scud is more powerful and faster - given as its more modern and the evolution!!!

    But I'll have a CS above any any Scud/16m for the reasons stated above (myself and Trev)...or the 458Speciale. Between those two it would be a difficult choice.

    All personal, no Scud for me, one for someone else...keeps RichardCH and other Scud potential purchasers happy, less competition ahahah!
    And I couldn't care less if they are faster than me, maybe they get caught quicker than me by the plods racing at the red lights (humour)
     
  31. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    1,639
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    I've never driven a Scud, but own a CS. Last week I took my 328GTB on a fast drive down a, rare in my area, country road. I had a ball at 60 to 75 mph. You'd have to be doing at least 100mph to feel what I was feeling in a more modern car. That's the beauty of old analog equipment. You get the same amazing sensations at a fraction of the speed necessary with the newer cars (CS included). I have no desire to explore physics at speeds any higher than a CS is capable of. Besides, you'd need all the electronic nannies Maranello could throw at you to make it out alive on the referenced road.
     
  32. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2001
    5,009
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    Oh boy, this looks like a lot of, "My car is faster than yours". I've been a track instructor for 20+ years and (usually) the guys that show up with the latest and greatest, biggest hp cars should really be driving an old Fiat X1/9 until they develop some skills. But many of these guys (in the Ferrari world) have egos as big as an elephant and don't believe they can learn anything new.

    The CS is the first of the modern "racers for the road", and they hit a home run on looks, balance, performance and more importantly.... experience. I DD'd an F40 in the '90's and the CS is the closest experience to that car. I've instructed during Ferrari track days (which is a bit ridiculous since getting most of these guys away from the valet stand is a battle) and had no problem running away from Scuds. Does that make my car better, nope. All it means is that I've taken the time to improve the variable that sits behind the wheel (and maybe tweaked the set up), rather than select gold jewelry and cologne.

    ALL of these cars are sufficiently fast enough to do great harm to your license and the scenery (without all the electronic nannies). It's a matter of what you like. The HP wars will continue, but with more and more computers keeping the average guy from plowing through the living room. But as long as there are jewelry stores, valet stands and car shows to brag at, there will be more hp with more computing power to save the owners and the public.

    If values and speed equated to worth, a 250 GTO would be nothing more than a 300hp old car, that sounds great with no go.
     
  33. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 8, 2012
    1,923
    switzerland
    Full Name:
    daniel
    The typical boring and arrogant speeches of an instructor. Drive your Renault Clio RS day by day and be happy with it. For sure enough car for your training rides.
     
  34. dang2407

    dang2407 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2017
    39
    Crawley, UK
    "... and don't believe they can learn anything new" certainly applied to you, mister.
     
    Slickhillsy likes this.
  35. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Why all the anger and hate?

    Maybe not all of this applies to your personal circumstances but it is very common amonst many fast car owners (Ferrari owners are no different) that they haven't spent the requisite time to learn properly how to drive their car with all the electronic aids disabled before moving on to even faster cars yet not actually going any faster. Some don't even understand basics like understeer and oversteer and what impact their irratic driving has on weight distribution. Dino is pointing out very valid points that for most circumstances on most roads a well peddled CS can be as a quick as a Scud driven badly. No arguments in that since I've seen it with my own eyes...
     
  36. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    924
    UK
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Would someone mind giving me an objective breakdown of why the CS is rawer than the Scud?

    The only area I am aware of that may be different is engine NVH: the CS has the Challenge engine mounts (harder). £88 per side from Eurospares and can be fitted to the 430.

    P.S. I am aware it is loud. Exhausts are easy to change to taste so I’m not so interested in this area.
     
  37. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Hello Mark,

    Suspension, Ride height and Calibrations
    1. Suspension calibration is harder.
    2. Suspension ecu has less sophisticated electronics control on CS so you feel more NVH.
    3. Factory Suspension ride height on CS is lower than on the Scud.

    Sound deadening and interior quality
    4. CS has less sound deadening than Scud
    5. CS has very spartan interior which feels more like the 360 Challenge than the Scud's feels like the 430 Challenge, the Scud interior feel more luxurious and refined with nicer door panel addendum such as storage nets, etc.
    6. The CS had some race car options that the Scud didn't get such as Lexan side windows which is about as basic as it gets and not very nice on the road!

    Exhaust Note
    5. Exhaust sytem bypasses the backbox on valves so is a lot louder (something which the EU noise regulations caught up by the time the Scud came out).
    6. It also sounds quite a bit different due to engine design (see next section)

    Engine Design
    7. The 360's engine had 5 valves per cylinder vs 4 on the F430 series (useful at very high rpm to get the gases out quicker) as its party piece, it also deployed expensive ultra lightweight titanium conrods and a blueprinted engine, all this was junked sadly on the F430 series because the engineers simply used higher capacity to make up the power deficit and based the F430's engine on the common project with Maserati at the time. So sonics some people believe are argueably better on the 360 and in theory its engine should rev freer/quicker (less reciprocal rotating masses), especially if combined with a lighter flywheel. Ofcourse sonics are asbjective but the 360 does wail more at higher rpm than the Scud, that is certain.

    Electronic Assistance
    8. Driving the CS fast feels more knife edged since the older Bosch ABS is very basic and only had EBD (electronic brake force distribution), it even lacks basic ESP so you get it wrong and you will spin, the Scud is much more forgiving so easier to drive, Scud also has digital electronic differential vs the analogue mechanical LSD fitted to the 360, the Scud also has steering angle sensors to allow its ecu to know direction of intended travel vs estimation with the 360. In other words the ability of the CS to get you out of your own self made mess on the road is very much reduced compared to the Scud in its race mode settings.

    Sure there are more things I've forgotton too...
     
    tuscany, Skippr1999 and Slickhillsy like this.
  38. 355fiorano

    355fiorano Formula Junior

    Oct 21, 2003
    762
    London
    Full Name:
    Philip
    Great summary :)
    I could not have given all these technical points but I completely agree that the totality of all these bits create the unique driving experience of the CS.
    That is the reason I bought a CS. At the same time, I also helped one of my best friends buy a Scud. We have both driven them on the road and track. The CS feels more raw and on the edge full stop and most people on this and other forums have the same feedback so if someone feels otherwise, they are the outlier. My friend for example would never buy the CS because it feels too much on the edge. I like them both, but the CS is my bag, exactly for its rawness (albeit I still don't like paddles). If I could, I'd have a scud too BTW but sadly I could not part with my 355 and/or my 308 to get one as I like to do my own heal-and-toe and drive with no/or as few electronics as possible. If ever I got some extra cash and another parking space, a scud would be high on the list (although I may be tempted with a 997 GT3 RS instead as its manual)

    Mark, I have read a lot of your technical posts with a lot of interest and clearly you know your stuff, but you cannot block out how most people "feel" and perceive the CS as being more raw by trying to explain that "this bit is nearly the same as that bit" etc etc
    I think it is a question of logic trying to suppress feeling.
     
  39. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    These kinds of car are all race inspired stripped out for the road variety so if your really enjoy driving they should be your thing. If you enjoy driving the Scud or CS you'll probably also love the Speciale, 675LT, GT3 RS, etc. "style" of cars..

    Even if you love your Scud/CS and think the CS/Scud [tick as appropriate] isn't even in the same ballpark when deciding over one vs another , chances are you probably still admire quite a few attributes of the other car.

    Lets face it these kinds of cars really are very similar since they all come from the same core concept but they all feel quite different.

    Back to back driving the Scud some may dislike the apparent comparative lack of torque on the CS but if you stop trying to drive it like a Scud (on torque) and keep the engine on the boil, e.g. over 5k you can really begin to enjoy it and its still a lot of fun. The CS drives different enough to the Scud to warrant having both in the stable if funds allow ;)
     
  40. koop

    koop Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 30, 2011
    753
    My biggest issue with the CS is not the lack of torque but rather the gearbox. Its fine for spirited driving, but not pleasant on normal roads and at normal speeds. The scud gearbox on the other hand performs remarkably well in almost all conditions and is unlike anything else at WOT.
     
  41. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    1,639
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    The key to the CS box is to manually rev match on downshifts by blipping the throttle while simultaneously pulling the paddle. The gear then falls into place seamlessly just like a manual box. Same goes for the 355. The people that bemoan these early F1 systems aren't doing this "engaging" process and therefore aren't understanding the joy that can be derived from F1.
     
  42. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2001
    5,009
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    Trev has the tech aspects of the car's package down that help create the 'experience'. All these cars are about that experience. It really is a matter of personal preference. The CS package puts a smile on MY face and that's all that counts.

    I love when ego driven folks put down accurate observations made over decades of experience with hundreds of students. That statement made my point. The ego for those folks is usually taken away when they turn off the nannies and are facing the wrong way. I just hope they do it on a track rather than in their neighbor's fence.
     
  43. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    924
    UK
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Thanks for that. I've added some comments above, but to me it comes down to looks and:

    CS
    + Louder and sounds sweeter in standard form
    + CS has harder engine mounts i.e. more NVH in the cabin
    - Slower/older F1 tech

    430
    + Sharper handling (specific rack and settings)
    + That gearbox
    - 430 has more evolved electronic systems and E-Diff - may be a negative if driving with them on
     
  44. 355fiorano

    355fiorano Formula Junior

    Oct 21, 2003
    762
    London
    Full Name:
    Philip
    Completely agree with that. Especially in traffic and at red lights its archaic to say the least ... but still better that the original 355 and 360 F1's
    This is the only part that I don't like. On track it is OK and it suits the car but i think F1's suit the newer cars better as newer engines with F1 gearboxes seem to have better matched characteristics. The Scud F1 is Epic and I love it more that the seamless 488.

    [QUOTE="The key to the CS box is to manually rev match on downshifts by blipping the throttle while simultaneously pulling the paddle. The gear then falls into place seamlessly just like a manual box. Same goes for the 355. The people that bemoan these early F1 systems aren't doing this "engaging" process and therefore aren't understanding the joy that can be derived from F1.[/QUOTE]

    I need to try this ....
     
  45. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Oct 29, 2010
    6,400
    This thread serves to remind that we all benefit with there are more posts from 360Trev.
     
  46. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
    As I said don't buy one if you don't plan to track it cos you will just experience most of the CS Negatives
     
  47. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    1,639
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    I need to try this ....[/QUOTE]
    Definitely give it a try. With some practice, it's a night and day difference and a lot of fun. This can also be done at low speed. Without doing this, the early boxes are clunky. But not, if you do this.
     
  48. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2009
    1,639
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Skipp
    Total BS. I've never had mine on track (although I've done extensive track days in Porsches), and the CS is a ton of fun on country roads, freeway exit ramps, and anywhere else enthusiasts drive with spirit. I'm sure the same can be said of the Scud, and I'd buy one of those too if I wanted more cars, bit to post nonsense like this is ridiculous !
     
  49. 360trev

    360trev Formula 3
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    2,262
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    360trev
    blush..
     
  50. Slickhillsy

    Slickhillsy Karting

    Aug 22, 2012
    107
    To add. ;)
    430
    + Those looks! Ok, the CS lines are more balanced but (personally) I think the Scud has a beautifully aggressive stance that sits well with those violent 60ms up-shifts. Also feel it's shape is ageing extremely well and doesn't look dated - always an indication of good design.
     
  51. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2014
    924
    UK
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Agree with that.
     
    Slickhillsy likes this.
  52. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2005
    3,801
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    PureValueMetrics
    WTF do I know, I only owned one for 4 years, but you can be 110% sure that there are more CS owners who upgraded to a SCUD than have gone back, so that kinda speaks for the majority, not your personal thoughts.....
     

Share This Page