500 Superfast, the Royal Ferrari

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by carvad, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. I have started the new week 1 FerrariChat Update poll, please vote... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrarichat-com-update-week-1-poll.560487/
  1. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,586
    Santa Fe, NM
    I would think that the torque characteristics between the 4.4 liter Colombo 12 and the giant Lampredi 12 would be markedly different. And I think the independent rear suspension on the QM would handle differently from the live axle on the Superfast. But I have never driven a Superfast . . .
     
  2. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    I am lucky enough to have spent a fair amount of seat time driving a 500 Superfast. We went through a car (not overhauled, just made everything work correctly) for a friend a couple of years ago. I was very impressed. Yes, they drive like a 330 GT 2+2, but seemingly better. Can't put my finger on it, but car handled better, not as ponderous feeling. Very impressive engine, super torque. Does everyting effortlessly. I liked it a lot. It drove better than their reputation, though this car had power steering. However, not the immense torque of a 410 Lampredi. Many years ago, in response to a question about Lampredi performance, I told a friend that with a Lampredi, "when you put your foot down, you hope the road goes where the car goes".
     
  3. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,112
    what type and size engine in a 500 superfast?
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2008
    5,388
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #204 miurasv, Sep 17, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
    Tipo 208 engine which is unique to the Superfast 500.

    4961.57cc, V12, SOHC, 24V fed through 3 Double Choke 40 DCZ/6 Webers developing 400 BHP.

    Some sources say this is a Lampredi/Colombo hybrid engine with Lampredi block but without the Lampredi fixed heads which were replaced with Colombo detachable heads. Others say that although the engine has Lampredi dimensions with the "long block" of 108mm between the cylinder bore centres, this is its only Lampredi feature, and is Colombo in type with pressed in liners and detachable heads. I'm sure Dyke will know.
     
  5. Dreambrother

    Dreambrother Formula Junior

    May 14, 2011
    257
    In response to earlier posts regarding the 500 Superfast at the Concours d'Elegance in 2012. Here is a nice movie.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8qC9nwTbo](HD) SCC: Ferrari 500 Superfast 1964 - #5951SF - Concours d'élégance Paleis Het Loo - YouTube[/ame]
     
  6. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    The Type 208 engine is 100% Colombo. It only shares some internal deminsions with the Lampredi V-12's.
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,489
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    I thought the 3.3L was the last real Colombo block.

    john
     
  9. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    John: Everything through the Type 245 single cam 365 is Colombo architechure. Even a 275 GTB/4 is a Colombo block with a set of DOHC heads.
     
  10. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,473
    Surrey, England
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    I seem to remember someone walking round at the Ferrari 50th anniversary back in 97 with that printed on a T-shirt or something very similar?
     
  11. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    We made the T-shirts and gave them to other Lampredi owning friends.
     
  12. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,042
    Hi Dyke.

    Admittedly this is way off topic, but you're the man who'd know the answer to this one: Do the racing 330 four-cam family of P engines (i.e. Tipo 237/241/247) have liners which screw into the heads ala the mid-to-late 1950s four-cam V12 motors, (i.e. Tipo 136//140/141 in the 290/315/335 S cars)?
     
  13. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    Terra: No they do not. They are conventional, with liners in the block.
     
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    Terra: However, the cylinder head design of the P2 engine is a direct decendent from the Massimino engines (136, 140,141). Not exactly the same (no screw-in liners, etc.), but a development of the earlier heads.
     
  16. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,042
    Thanks for explaining.

    Were the 330 P3, 412P and 330 P4 cylinder heads in turn developed/evolved from the P2?
     
  17. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    Terra: You are stretching my knowledge base, but I believe the P3/ 412 P is a development from the P2, but the three valve P4 was another leap forward in engine technology.
     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2008
    5,388
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #216 miurasv, Oct 1, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
    The engine in the 330 P3 was derived from the 410 BHP 330 P2 tipo 216 unit to become tipo 216 B using new pistons and camshafts as well as fuel injection, similar to that used on the F1 unit, replacing the carburettors of the P2, and now developed 420 BHP.
     
  19. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    392
    DWR46: Alberto Massimino? What is exactly a Massimino engine? Only the 3 mentioned?
     
  20. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    916
    The Tipo 136,140 and 141 four-cam V-12's were mainly designed by Massimino using a lot of Jano features in the valve train.
     
  21. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    392
    Thank you DWR!

    Interesting is the cooperation, interaction and influence between Jano, Colombo, Massimino, Lampredi etc.. Upon my knowledge little is known about who did exactly what, where and when at Fiat, AR, AAC, Maserati and Ferrari. Any sources available about that subject?
     
  22. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    563
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Full Name:
    Vadim Dobrovolsky
    Restored by Touring Superleggera in 2012

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.419783554785954.1073741835.139412812823031&type=3

    http://www.touringsuperleggera.eu/gallery/news/pdf/2013_VillaEsteTouringRestorationsFerrari500SFClassWinnerENG.pdf

    "At the Concorso d'Eleganza of Villa d'Este, a restoration performed by Touring Superleggera is Class Winner in the "C - Transitions" category. The Ferrari 500 Superfast Pininfarina # 5951 was restored to its original shape after compelling research and complex restoration that took place at the Touring atelier of Milan.

    The 500 Superfast was to be the last limited production and coach built Ferrari grand tourer of its period. The sport car was sold at a twice the price of the Ferraris of those times; the company call was for "a Ferrari for sovereign, movie stars and chief industrialists".

    Of the 36 units built, 34 are accounted for today a nd 2 crashed in accident. The #5951 frame is particularly interesting because it is the prototype and the first of the series at the same time. Originally exhibited on the Pininfarina booth at the Geneva Motor Show in 1964, it featured a raised hood and one-piece rear lights. When the car entered pro duction, the bonnet became flat and the rear lights were replaced with 3 single carry-over lamps. Before bei ng delivered to a German customer, the show car underwent the same changes and was repainted in a darker shade of metallic blue.

    The 500 Superfast was restored by the Touring Superleggera workshop in 2012 to satisfy the current owner's desire to bring the car back to its prototype conditions, just as it was exhibited at the Geneva Motor Show.

    The historical research was utmost challenging, as no plans of the original elements were available, and the paint manufacturer had disappeared in the meantime with its records.

    The Pininfarina archives supported in supplying original B/W photographs of the show. Starting from there, Touring developed a computerized 3-D model of the hood raise, milled a master model and finally shaped the hood to the pristine lines. The same pictures allowed machining the rear light units from solid perspex.

    When scratching the body to bare metal, no traces of the original colour were found. Eventually, the original blue appeared in a tiny area of the window frame below a number of successive sprays, from the Ferrari-specified blue to various filler layers. This was enough for the Touring technicians to reconstitute the authentic shade and return this important car its true shape and immaculate beauty."
     
  23. Mark Seligman

    Mark Seligman Rookie

    Apr 23, 2014
    2
    I remember inspecting the 1964 London Show car that was subsequently crashed. Its owner at the time was the father of a boy at my prep school (Mr Tomlinson from memory), and he brought it to Sports Day, probably in 1965 or 1966. It was indeed red. Some time later, the headmaster reported to us in Chapel how Tomlimson Senior had been driving on a back road near where he lived, and a tractor pulled out in front of him. He was killed.
    Very sad indeed.
     
  24. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 4, 2005
    747
    Yorkshire, UK
    Full Name:
    John Gould
    Ferrari 500 Superfast #6345SF, registration EPL 5B, was crashed by Mr Tomkins in 1967 or 8.

    His son has contributed to this board in the past but I have not been able to find the messages just now.
     
  25. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 4, 2005
    747
    Yorkshire, UK
    Full Name:
    John Gould
     
  26. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn Moderator
    Moderator

    May 15, 2003
    3,934
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    That's right, and the first remark was his father's name should be spelled "Tomkins". Edit: though you spelled it correctly in post #222.
     
  27. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 4, 2005
    747
    Yorkshire, UK
    Full Name:
    John Gould
    Sorry, late at night when I posted!

    J
     
  28. Mark Seligman

    Mark Seligman Rookie

    Apr 23, 2014
    2
    Yes, thank you - I stand corrected as his name was Tomkins.
    I remember reading the Drive article at the time too.
    Nice to hear Will still lived there.
    There was also a very early computer guided toy model that operated off cut cardboard strips in the 1960s. That was also red. That was the nearest I got to a real Superfast.But I do have a DB6, so I appreciated the bit in the Drive article of the DB6 "hissing" by when the 70mph "temporary" limit was brought in.
    Incidentally, the Minister responsible was not a man, as Peter Sellers thought. it was Barbara Castle, the only UK Minister of Transport not to have a driving licence.....
     
  29. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

    Sep 10, 2005
    5,195
    UK
    Incredible that 70 is still the limit with modern braking and safety systems. You'll never see better driving than weekday Motorways.
     
  30. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    563
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Full Name:
    Vadim Dobrovolsky
    Were any road tests for 500 Superfast published in magazines during 1964-66?
     
  31. XRS

    XRS Rookie

    May 4, 2013
    17
    UK
    Full Name:
    Phil Hill
    I believe there was an article in The Readers Digest during this period, though I have never seen it.
     
  32. gulf908

    gulf908 Rookie

    Jan 4, 2008
    6
    #230 gulf908, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I went to the Blackhawk Collection in Danville CA last September for the first time since 1994.
    A lot of 50s Ferraris and some interesting one offs.
    The one catching my eye was a metallic blue 500 SF with UK plates.
    No c/n though but I thought of Peter Sellers immediately !
    The docent didn't seem to know any more than what was on the small sign and even less about the '55 Pegaso next to it.
    Some very interesting cars in there but a pain to take good pics due to the poor lighting.

    Cheers
    Dennis.
    DSC04029 (Small).JPG
    DSC04030 (Small).JPG
    DSC04025 (Small).JPG
     
  33. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    17,890
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    The 500 Superfast is chassis 8459SF. The Pegaso is Z-102B Saoutchik Coupe chassis 1021500146 (ex-Bill Harrah).
     
  34. XRS

    XRS Rookie

    May 4, 2013
    17
    UK
    Full Name:
    Phil Hill
    I came across this image of 6267SF with its original owner on another forum.

    [​IMG]
     
  35. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 23, 2002
    11,391
    It's too bad the hood isn't open......to expose the most beautiful engine ever built.
     
  36. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    563
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Full Name:
    Vadim Dobrovolsky
    Is 500 Superfast the first Ferrari fitted with air-conditioner from factory?
     
  37. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2007
    3,238
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    I thought it was the 330GTC
     
  38. Jürgen Geisler

    Jürgen Geisler Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2015
    826
    Good old Europe
    Full Name:
    Jürgen
    #236 Jürgen Geisler, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    500 Sperfast at display at the Ferrari Museum Modena, what a car.....


    Saluti,

    Jürgen
    image.jpg
     
  39. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    563
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Full Name:
    Vadim Dobrovolsky
    5951 GT, first prodused 500 Superfast. Restored by Touring Superleggera in 2013
     
  40. johngtc

    johngtc Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 4, 2005
    747
    Yorkshire, UK
    Full Name:
    John Gould
    The 500 SF predates the 330 GTC by a couple of years.

    John
     
  41. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    563
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Full Name:
    Vadim Dobrovolsky
    So, which Ferrari model was fitted with air-conditioner from factory for the first time?
     
  42. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2007
    3,238
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Yes, but I didn't know it had factory A/C. I thought the 330 gtc was the first to have that.
     
  43. carvad

    carvad Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2008
    563
    Kiev, Ukraine
    Full Name:
    Vadim Dobrovolsky
    Prince Bernhard ordered 500 Superfast, s/n 6267 SA with 4.0 liter Tipo 209 engine while standard 500 Superfast was fitted 5.0 liter Tipo 208 engine. What was behind the story? Why Bernhard ordered his car with this engine?
     
  44. XRS

    XRS Rookie

    May 4, 2013
    17
    UK
    Full Name:
    Phil Hill
    I've just stumbled across pictures of 12316333_1650724505176044_222856465049676485_n.jpg 12314062_1650724541842707_362446059147114989_n.jpg what I believe is 6679SF undergoing restoration at Maranello Concessionaires in around 1982. Can anyone confirm?
     
  45. Robert W

    Robert W Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    1,141
    Oxford, UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Westall
    That is definitely Maranello Concessionaires in the Thrope Industrial Estate near Egham in the UK. I know that exact room very well as I have numerous photos of it. That is clearly a RHD 500 Superfast, of which only 8 were made and 6679 was the only car that was ever gold (Nocciola Met is the colour), so I'd say your are correct.
     

Share This Page