Alfa USA 2013/2014

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by F1tommy, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. I have started the new week 1 FerrariChat Update poll, please vote... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrarichat-com-update-week-1-poll.560487/
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What production Alfa Romeo would you buy in order of preference?

  1. Alfa 4 door sedan $35,000-$45,000 US

  2. Alfa 4 door sedan $45,000-60,000 US

  3. Alfa Spider $30,000-$45,000 US

  4. Alfa GTV 2 door $35,000-$50,000 US

  5. Alfa SUV $35,000-$50,000 US

  6. Alfa 4C or future high end Alfa sportscar $75,000+ US

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  1. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Here is an update from what I have read and heard about Alfa Romeo's return and production of Alfa's in the USA and North America.

    2013

    Early 1st-2nd quarter

    4C and CUV based on Kamal with 1750 Turbo motor, 7 speed DTC gearbox and 4 wheel drive available in the US market. 4C production in Italy and CUV production in Toledo, Ohio.
    CUV based on Giulietta chassis.

    mid to late 3rd and 4th quarter

    MiTo 2 and 4 door redesigned and available in the US market. Not sure where production for MiTo will be yet.

    2014

    Early 2nd quarter

    Giulia sedan and wagon available in US market. Production at Belvidere, Illinois. Engine options to include 1750 turbo motor.


    Link:

    http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/anything-about-alfa-romeos-alfabb-com/191053-marchionne-remains-adamant-will-happen-2.html#post1098667


    Will keep this thread updated when information becomes available.




    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  2. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    #2 F1tommy, Jan 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Some photos of the CUV and Giulia concepts:



    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
    00aaaaaassuntitled.jpg
    zzaazuntitled.jpg
     
  3. F1tommy

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    #3 F1tommy, Jan 30, 2012
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    And the Alfa 4C:
    zzzz00aauntitled.jpg
     
  4. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    #4 F1tommy, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    More photos of the concept CUV+test mule and the original FIAT/Alfa timetable. Some have been moved up and others back. Most think the CUV and 4C will be in FIAT dealers sometime before mid 2013. No 'NEW" MiTo 2014 concept photos yet. We should get the final CUV and 4C photos sometime this year.


    On another note, the Giulietta based Dodge Dart will go on sale later this year. It is built in the same factory the new Giulia will be made.


    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
    Alfa-Romeo-SUV.jpg
    alfacuvspy-photo-photo-425695-s-520x318.jpg
    alfafiat_ill_ns_4221013_815.jpg
     
  5. Dino V

    Dino V Formula 3

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    Looking forward to their launch in the US again.
     
  6. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
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    Great news, hope it happens!
     
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  8. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

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    Have missed this thread, thanks for all the info
     
  9. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Speriamo per il meglio Tomaso...didn't see that on the Alfa forum....
     
  10. AlfettaGTV

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    #9 AlfettaGTV, Feb 3, 2012
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    Sorry, but all these cars, except the 4C will be the same pure trash as the 95% of the cars in currently in the market.
    Revive Alfa to make SUVs? Please, try a better joke.

    This is what Alfa should put in the market and kick to BMW in the teeth: Small light sport coupes with 1.4 turbo engines, with RWD.... or sporty berlinas.
    Giulia_399593_257367644333897_100001819902127_608208_328190397_n.jpg
     
  11. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Although I agree with you on the CUV, they also need bigger engines than you quote to go against BMW and Audi. The 1.8 turbo is the smallest gas engine I think they will sell in North American Alfa's. I don't like the cars frontend in the photo you posted, but we do need a nice GTV and Spider.The Giulia and MiTo redesign might also end up being good. The 4C is a limited production sportscar. Alfa should target the BMW 3 and 5 series and Audi A4 and A6 along with a entry level sporty vehicle. The US and N.A. are the biggest market for cars so I guess they think the CUV is a must. They like those tanks in the USA and Canada. They also seem to like minivans and CUV's in Europe since you see them all over the place on the German and French highways. I like smaller sports sedans/cars, but most people seem to like medium sized sports sedans/cars loaded with power options. FIAT will adapt to what they think will sell.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  12. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

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    But the statistics speak, 4 door cars out sell 2 door in the USA. And SUV style out sell sedans. Your going to need a bigger engine to beat BMW.
     
  13. AlfettaGTV

    AlfettaGTV Karting

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    The 1.4 Turbo Multiair engine fitted to the Giulietta it's a blast to drive with 170bhp, no less. And I think the Giulietta is not a light car with 1.365kg, in fact is a heavy car. I'm sure it's a great contender against similar class BMW.

    The question here is if Alfa Romeo wants to be another vulgar "car seller" with no identity, no soul, no inspiration in the past and no-nothing. Sorry, but I'm not going to buy a Giulietta, a overweight car, even less a SUV... oh, my god, these are the less utile cars ever invented. They perform poor on open roads and get stuck if they get their wheels over more than 10cm of mud. And people think they are safe!! It's the greatest swindle ever!!

    But men.... I WILL SELL MY SOUL TO SATAN to sit my ar*e in the car of the pic if they only promised me the same 170bhp, 1050kg and RWD in the range of 25.000euros

    Sorry, but USA will not save Alfa Romeo.
    May be they have market studies and so on, but they are wrong.
    British did the same in the 70's and 80's..... and where are they now?

    A friend of mine is right: "Alfa died when the last 75 was made in Arese. Since 1992, Alfa is a dead trademark as Simca or Talbot. They can use the name and the logos, but the real soul will be no longer in these artifacts."
     
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  15. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Well the 75 had a 2.5 and 3.0 in the US and Canadian markets. The 75 was also not a very good car, although it had some very nice engineering due to the Alfetta chassis. The details were cheap and not well designed. I remember test driving a new one and thinking it was thrown together designwise. The 164 was a much better car, although front drive was a mistake for Alfa. If Alfa wants to compete in the upscale market against BMW and Audi they will need the bigger engines. Also like BMW, Mercedes, Audi ect. they will need a CUV for both Europe and N.A. That still leaves room for Alfa sportscars and sedans, but I think they will be expensive.


    Mercedes and BMW also build CUV's in the USA with engines made in Germany. That is what Alfa will also do, only with engines made in Italy.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  16. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    my Milano 2.5 sounds better than my current E90 325....we need an Italian alternative to the countless A4/BMW 3/MB C-class autos-they are good cars but variety is the spice of life and I'd like to see an Alfa in this class of automobile.
     
  17. johnei

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  18. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

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    The cost of building a chassis from the ground up is just too expensive, that is why Bertone and Pinnifarina are going out of business, Zagato was smart enough to understand this and focuses on low volume high end cars.

    The Italians are terrible marketeers IMO, they have some of the best brand names like Alfa and Maserati yet they have done so little to promote them.
     
  19. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Si!
     
  20. Formula 1

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    Jesus Christ that looks so Bad A**!
     
  21. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    #20 F1tommy, Feb 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Cool looking Disco retro concept to debut at the Geneva Autoshow next month. Milan based Touring reborn is doing the car wich is based on an Alfa 8C chassis. I think Alfa styling is headed in the right direction. The 159 replacement will also debut, called the Giulia.






    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
    00aaaC61FB.jpg
     
  22. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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    YES! A STEP-NOSE FOR THE 21ST CENTURY!
    Make me one in aluminum with rivets in the rain gutters.......
     
  23. johnei

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    January 2014 ... whatever
    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=261257

    Alfa 4C to spearhead US relaunch
    Tuesday, February 14, 2012

    Alfa Romeo’s US relaunch will finally take place at the Detroit motor show in 2014. The production version of the mid-engined 4C sports car will make its debut at the same show.

    The 4C will head a range that is set to grow over the next two years to include the five-door Mito, new Spider, Giulia saloon and estate (to replace the 159 range), a new compact SUV and the new 6C flagship saloon.

    The first of the new Alfas is not due to be seen until the second half of next year, Autocar sources have revealed. So the company will have to make do with the current Mito and Giulietta for at least 18 months as its sole two new cars available in showrooms.

    Once sales are under way in North America, Alfa will turn its attentions to launching in the Chinese market. It had a stand at the Guangzhou motor show late last year and was pleased with the response its models received.

    Autocar has also learned from Fiat Group sources that the 4C will only be offered with a dual-clutch automatic gearbox with paddle shifters. There will be no manual option.

    However, the 4C’s twin-clutch ’box won’t be exactly the same Fiat Powertrain-developed dry-clutch auto used in the Giulietta TCT (see first drive, p37) because it can’t be installed in a mid-engined car in its present state. Instead, the 4C is likely to get a version of this transmission adapted for mid-engined installation.

    Sources have confirmed that the 4C will be powered by a new 230bhp version of Alfa’s 1750 turbo petrol engine. In its present 197bhp state, this engine has a torque output of 236lb ft.

    This is well inside the new auto’s maximum torque tolerance of 258lb ft, which means the 1750 engine is also in line for a torque increase for the 4C.

    Mark Tisshaw
     
  24. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    The date January 2014 would not suprise me, but the rumor that the CUV would be available first might be true. Atleast it looks like we will have some Alfa FIATS soon.
    Some of that article is a bit off, like the engine specs.


    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  25. F1tommy

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    #24 F1tommy, Feb 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    More photos. The new spider will be based on the 2010 show car according to sources inside Alfa. Here is what it might look like with road legal headlamps. The 8C GTA is maybe dead?? If only Jim G. had bought one to race! I hope they don't bump the Alfa intro another 6 months. My only question is will they sell the Alfa CUV's before the Detroit Auto show intro?



    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
    00aaa2010-pininfarina-2uettott-3_1600x0w.jpg
    00aaaalfa-romeo-spider-1w.jpg
    00aaa2010-alfa-romeo-8c-gta-3_1024x0w.jpg
     
  26. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    That spider is awesome.
     
  27. magisano

    magisano Rookie

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    #26 magisano, Feb 19, 2012
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    Yes it nice if they make it happen 2014? i like that spider put right next to my gtv Tony
    DSC01673.JPG
     
  28. chp

    chp Formula Junior

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    Right!

    You are right. An Alfa should look like an Alfa and drive like a BMW.

    But this won`t happen, because BMW is simply out of reach. Far out of reach. Unfortunately!

     
  29. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    With the proliferation of 3 series I see them everywhere, including my own. An Italian alternative is what is needed desperately in this class. Audi had their comeback begin with the A4 and that's where Alfa needs to start. The spider, 4 c and the 159 replacement should be the first wave of products.
     
  30. El Wayne

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    #29 El Wayne, Feb 27, 2012
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    Nice!
    Giulia_399593_257367644333897_100001819902127_608208_328190397_n.jpg
     
  31. 4re Nut

    4re Nut F1 World Champ

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    Not encouraging: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/24/us-fiat-idUSTRE81N0F520120224

     
  32. TheMayor

    TheMayor Five Time F1 World Champ
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    This would sell.

    Alfa has ALWAYS been about style. I don't understand why Chrysler doesn't understand that.

    Alfa has ALWAYS been about niche marketing also. If they think they can sell more than 20K of any Alfa model a year, they are crazy. It's not Fiat's solution to the US market. But, it's a great brand that can help supplement lagging 500 sales.

    I would buy a new good looking spider in a heartbeat.
     
  33. F1tommy

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    #32 F1tommy, Mar 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The Disco concept from the Geneva Autoshow. Interesting, but the rear does not look that "Disco". Will be built in limited numbers on a Alfa/Maserati 8C chassis. Any other Geneva Alfa photos yet??


    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
    Touring-Disco-Volante-Concept-image-03.jpg
    Touring-Disco-Volante-Concept-image-05.jpg
     
  34. F1tommy

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    #33 F1tommy, Mar 3, 2012
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    And the top and rear:
    Touring-Disco-Volante-Concept-image-02.jpg
    Touring-Disco-Volante-Concept-image-06.jpg
     
  35. F1tommy

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    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120306/OPINION03/203060316/Marchionne--Fiat-needs-to-take-a-cue-from-Chrysler


    From the FIAT chairman:


    "The next days of Alfa, the way in which it becomes a full, legitimate, premium brand, is by coming to the U.S.," he said. "And the U.S. now, because of what we have been able to do with Chrysler, has got first dibs — and probably undeniable dibs — to try and play as the producing country for the relaunch of Alfa.

    "We're now looking at the United States as being not only a production hub for Alfa, but also the basis on which the brand itself is going to be relaunched. That car is going to be manufactured in the bloody United States. If we had done this on our own — and I mean Fiat now — out of Europe, we would have been dealing with a much more restrictive market."


    Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  36. chp

    chp Formula Junior

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    Here are the 2011 figures of Fiat, Alfa Romeo and Lancia in Germany:

    (units/ market share/ ranking)

    Fiat 80126 2,52 % 12
    Alfa 10480 0,33 % 27
    Lancia 2344 0,074 % 34

    Here are the 2011 figures of the eastern European car companies for comparison:

    Skoda (VW/Czech Republic) 142611 4,49 % 7
    Dacia (Renault/Romania) 41237 1,30 % 18
    Lada (Russia) 2031 0,06 % 35

    Famous Lancia sells as much as prehistoric Russian Lada (Niva). Dacia sells about 4 times Alfa Romeo and someday Dacia will even overtake Fiat. Skoda is out of reach.

    Top Ten:

    VW 686833 21,64 % 1
    Mercedes 285651 9,00 % 2
    BMW 257094 8,10 % 3
    Opel 254605 8,02 % 4
    Audi 250708 7,90 % 5
    Ford 230939 7,08 % 6
    Skoda 142611 4,49 % 7
    Renault 119129 3,75 % 8
    Hyundai 86866 2,74 % 9
    Peugeot 82743 2,61 % 10

    http://www.autohaus.de/sixcms/media.php/2141/Hersteller_12_2011.pdf

    The US-market is of course different to the German market, but it`s a long way to go! Alfa will sell some cars, but will they sell enough? BMW and Audi alone outsell Alfa 50 times!

    I`m sure Alfa engineers could built a decent car to compete with BMW, Audi, etc. Let`s say 300 hp, V6, rear wheel drive (!), a decent chassis and a high quality. But to achieve their competitors levels they needed much time and a lot of money! Do they have enough time and money?
     
  37. chp

    chp Formula Junior

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    #36 chp, Mar 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It reminds me of the Lancia Fulvia Concept of 2003. They never built it.
    640px-LanciaFulvia(2003).JPG
     
  38. Mang

    Mang F1 Rookie
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    Some of these concept cars, like this one, are so amazingly beautiful and work, because the originals just nailed it. I can't understand why they don't build a number of them, seems they would sell easily, again, like this simple design Fulvia re-make. The Alfa GTV modern concept car is simple and stunning as well, just build the damn thing! just rambling thoughts :D
     
  39. F1tommy

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    The GTV concept is a photoshop of the spider concept with a roof and new front.

    I think also that they should have built several of the concepts since they were better than the cars they ended up making. The Proteo and Viola come to mind, but instead they made the bland 116 spider in the mid 1990's. This Disco and the TZ3's are being made in limited numbers provided you have alot of cash to give them.

    On the article it seems they are switching the planned Canadian Alfa production to possibly Michigan/Ohio and Illinois. I think they realize they have to make the Alfa's special, not just rebodied Chryslers. Expect some very good looking cars from Alfa, but I only hope they also look good under the skin. Like I said before, the ALL NEW Alfa only 1750 alloy turbo motor is a very good sign they will be.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  40. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Alfa will have to share platforms....ferrari/maserati, vw/porsche/audi all do it. Elsewhere chrysler is looking to do a smaller/lighter rwd replacement for the challenger. Such a rwd platform could be the basis of a new alfa spider/sedan. I'd do a 2L turbo motor as the engine.
     
  41. F1tommy

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  42. johnei

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  43. chp

    chp Formula Junior

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    #42 chp, Mar 7, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
    Maybe yes. But Fiat/Alfa/Lancia is always cheaper than e.g. a VW/Audi/Merc/BMW of the same size. It`s a lot about quality.

    Fiat should compete with VW, Alfa with BMW and Lancia with Mercedes in a perfect automobile world. But to do this they needed to invest heavily. They can`t.

    "“Mazda has a capital alliance with Ford and technical alliances with seven different companies worldwide, and for now, we have no plans to have another capital alliance,” Kozue Nitta, a Mazda spokeswoman, said yesterday. "

    Mazda won`t be nuts. They build very decent cars.

    I don`t think Marchionnes expansion strategy is feasible.

    He could instead shut down Lancia and two italian plants, sell Alfa to VW, invest the money in Fiat and concentrate on the US-market with Chrysler.
     
  44. F1tommy

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    #43 F1tommy, Mar 8, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
    I don't think they will sell Alfa at this point as they have started to dump to much money into the brand already. Not sure why everyone loves the VW idea so much. To me Alfa would just become a VW with an Alfa logo just like SEAT is a VW and AUDI is a VW with more options(other than the high end Audi R8 wich is a Lamborghini with an ugly body and horrid and huge front grill and side vent styling things behind the door).


    Also, we already have Audi and VW in N.A. I want something new and fresh other than all the boring Asian and same American/European cars we already have. A rebadged VW we already have. Its hard to tell the VW's and Audi's apart anymore from a couple 100 feet away.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  45. chp

    chp Formula Junior

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    Well, because VW has the money and the multi brand strategy. BMW would also be fine, but I think they have other plans.

    And I think it`s not so much much loving the VW idea than fearing the other options.

    I have been at the Swiss Alfa Romeo forum for quite some time. They don`t have an own automobile industry to favor. They are pretty italophil, because a lot of them are capable of the language. And they usually have the money to buy the cars. Yet at some point they started buying all kinds of brands. French, Swedish, German, Japanese, etc. The forum almost died in the mean time.

    Page 81 to 85: http://www.alfisti.ch/forum/showthread.php?t=6199&page=81
     
  46. F1tommy

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    #45 F1tommy, Mar 8, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
    They sound like the guys at alfabb...They would rather the brand just die or be sold from the Italians. I am not so sure about that. I remember Alfa always being a screwed up company going back to the 1980's and even before my time. If M does what he says he will Alfa should do well and be a special marque again. We will have to wait and see. After what happened to SEAT I do not want VW near Alfa. They will turn them into VW's. FIAT might also do the same and turn them into Chryslers, but the 1750 Alloy turbo motor is giving me hope they will not. If in 5 years FIAT has not turned Alfa around let them die or be sold.

    It also still looks like the CUV will be the first Alfa in N.A. sometime in mid 2013(does that suprise anyone). They will introduce the 4C at the Detroit Auto Show in 2014. If the cuv has the new 300hp 1750 turbo motor and is less than 3500lbs it should be the fastest street Alfa ever sold in N.A., other than the Alfa 8C. The 4C will bump it when it comes out in N.A. I will not buy a cuv or SUV but Americans and Europeans seem to love them for non intercity driving.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  47. F1tommy

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    #46 F1tommy, Mar 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    One of the sources is alfamaven on alfabb. He is either a very smart reporter who has talked to people on the inside or he works for FIAT/Chrysler. Whatever he is he does know what he has been talking about. M proved him correct on several items over the last few months.

    Here is what alfamaven has to say about the CUV coming early in 2013..


    Quote:

    "In a test market, the Giulietta c- evo chassis was considered too narrow for our market and too costly to re-engineer. The cuv will have stretched and slightly modified Giulietta bodywork on the C-US wide platform with a better engine and improved suspension exclusive to alfa. Tooling is now being installed at the Toledo jeep works with launch scheduled for early 2013.

    Dealers have been informed. The cuv is going to be a huge hit, since specs are top notch. The engine and suspension are alfa exclusives. Bodywork is slightly stretched and modified Giulietta with more room. Hardware is upgraded by Mopar using 409 stainless for the exhaust with italian tuning. A seven speed DCT will be offered along with AWD. Runflat tires is its only fault which is easily remedied as explained earlier. That's due to politics with the tire makers".


    If they use that 300hp 1750 motor I might just have to buy one. Here is the testmule picture of the CUV again.


    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
    00aaaphoto-photo-425695-s-520x318.jpg
     
  48. chp

    chp Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2005
    339
  49. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2007
    5,759
    Chicago USA
    Full Name:
    Tom Tanner
    It's based on that, but it looks like it sits higher and has bigger wheels. I did see a plane load of those Giulietta's come in to O'hare airport back in 2010. I forgot my rule number 1, never buy an SUV or CUV. I will wait for the real Alfa Romeo coupe/touring sedan. I am sure alot of people will love the CUV.

    Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2012-Chicago March 17th 2012
     
  50. hyenahf

    hyenahf Formula 3
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    May 25, 2004
    2,148
    nice melbers!...are those 14x6 or 14x7's

    cheers

    hf
     
  51. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 26, 2006
    4,022
    Plantation, Florida
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    I am in Italy at the moment and I managed to get a rental Giulietta diesel from Avis.
    What a blast of a car!!
    Most of the times one forgets it is a diesel and as far as roadholding and haldling I will only say: it is a true Alfa!
    I would love to get this car as a DD any day in the US!
     

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