car design thread

Not really surprised. He did get a long interview with Irv though.

 

....Jaguar XK-120, and a matching Fiat 8V.

A pair of jet age, Ghia-bodied Supersonics lands on the Monterey Peninsula | Hemmings Daily

Great stories regarding both cars too!
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I have always loved this version of the Fiat 8V, I never realized that they made them on other chassis.

 

They also made one on an Alfa 1900 chassis that raced in the Mille Miglia:
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Say what you might about the white bread fifties they produced some very bold and aspirational designs. Unlike our "liberated" era.

 

I was sooo tempted to add some caustic remark about the 'quality'? of these designs vs current designs (esp some of the OTT 'anime' Japanese designs), but I didn't want to get piled on for "liking retro" or some other nonsense......(there; I've said too much already....) /end

 

But these are the complete opposite of retro.

 

I bought a 2004 MINI!

I really liked the 2001-2007 (first generation) BMW MINI designed by Frank Stephenson. The second generation one looked a little too bubbly and cartoony. The third generation one looks really weird.

John is right in that while the first retro design was very good, where's it going after that? The lights are getting bigger, the tachometer is getting bigger, the car is getting increasingly bubbly and styled with bends and creases... it just doesn't look cohesive any more, almost like too many people who weren't talking to each other tried to tweak each portion of the car.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

This is also an indicator of "management" getting scared on where to go. The first version was successful so they miss the essence of what made the success. Result all new tooling that looks like a mid cycle freshening. Worse is to hang every clinic suggestion on the design to make a perfect camel. No ability to lead if one is clueless on where they are going.

Jeff

 

Funny, I'm certainly no fan of "retro", and I can see the constraints VW has put on it's designers with the "new" Beetle, but I just don't get the angst over the Mini. Granted, I don't think they've done a particularly good job of moving the design forward, having opted instead for more & more cartoonish versions of the original car, but I think that's down more to bad corporate direction from BMW than available design options.
If you go back to the period of the original Issigonis Mini, it's overall design was revolutionary, but its face was hardly unique, featuring pretty typical British design cues of the era seen in many other cars such as the A50 or even the earlier Standard Vanguard. If you start with that typical form and track how other companies made the transition going forward, it shouldn't be too difficult to formulate a plan.
Also, what was done with the Mini in period? Wolseley Hornet and the Riley Elf? Austin America? BLMC even did a rectangular grille on the Mini at one point (mid-70s?) called the Clubman I believe. Austin Metro anyone?

In the end the Mini is just a hot hatch with a somewhat individual face; it just shouldn't be that difficult to move on.

 

I saw this 2009 version in person, a two seater one off by Pininfarina for a private party. Somewhat odd styling but great workmanship. Does $5 million seem high to create one car? It's for sale in the Mideast for $6-7 million, I don't think they're even going to get the original investment backl Any comments on the styling or wisdom of RR offering a "selfish" two seater? There's drawing on the net of a two seater based on the present body. Look it up under "16-cylinder Phantom." No joke, they have a 16-cylinder experimental engine, one was in the Phantom Rowan Atkinson drove in a recent movie. The drawing is exaggerated though with a windscreen that looks chopped by a third at least....

 

$5 million is fine, depending on what you are getting. Rolls Royce should definitely offer this service. No one should ever expect to get their money back from such a venture, it needs to be about the desire to have what they want regardless of the cost. Most of these commissioned works should expect to depreciate by at least 50% the day they are delivered. There are certainly exceptions, Jim's P4/5 would probably sell well, and something made for someone famous, like Eric Clapton's Ferrari, may do OK because of his connection to it and the fact that it is a Ferrari. If it did not have the Ferrari name on it, it would be losing money from day one. There have been a number of these one off Ferrari's that were less than attractive and they will not be worth much until they are really old. With the current market craziness, speculators may pay stupid money for any one off Ferrari, but it is still probably less than it cost in the first place.

 

Rolls Phantom Hyperion


Pininfarina-designed Rolls-Royce Hyperion on Sale Again

 

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"Design students across the globe can see what other students are doing"

kind of reminds me to ask, what news from Ferrari...

 

Getting close on the lack of design leadership. Of course he held back by not addressing when the companies select new heads of design for their pliability. That person is then going to stay in line instead of really fighting for the sanctity of design.

Harley Earl was successful because he had the backing from Sloan. Exner was successful because he had the backing of Tex. Both were able to drive forward according to their vision. Waiting for the competition to introduce something so they could roll it into their studio to "interpret".

Move forward in time and look at what Jack Telnack and Tom Gale did. Both were given the freedom to lead.

One thing that Peter did not touch on was the package. If everyone decides to use the virtually the same package then there is only so much available to clothe it. In one of Bob Lutz's books he railed against the GM product planners total allegiance to determining all passenger compartment dimension as a percentile to all the competition. Lutz then argued that when the potential customer walked into a showroom and listened to the salesman pitch the equivalent of "the car may look boring but it has 95 percentile ranking against the competition" was a loosing argument. Compromise some of those rankings and the car can become desirable. Look at the MB CLS. The back seat suffered for the styling but they were the car that people wanted.

Jeff