Countach 25th Anniversario

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Jan 1, 2013.

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  1. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    very cool!
    this is a libretto di circolazione for EE plates in name of Walter Wolf

    plates were EE419AU


    not sure if this is the last or one of the last but for sure it was for Walter Wolf and this itself makes the car special

    any exterior shots of the car ?

    congrats on this anniversary
     
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #2902 joe sackey, Jun 30, 2017
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    Awesome to see LLA12995 surface again and be shared.

    FWIW, LLA12995 was delivered in MARCH 1990 and this is clearly supported by the documents you have just posted. The Lamborghini factory Museo LLA12085 was not completed till JUNE 1990, and this is much-documented within this thread.

    It is simply indisputable that LLA 12995 is not the last Countach built by the works, and this is affirmed by the delivery date of LLA12995 as issued by an independent regulatory authority.

    Never mind that the chassis number appears to be the highest one out there, as we have discussed ad nauseum, Lamborghini delivery dates consistently are not in-sequence with chassis numbers, and this is basic production knowledge.

    That the Argento 25th Anniversario that sits in the Museo is the LAST Countach built by the works on the standard production line, is clear, but, we are aware that the factory put together @ 2 post-production cars out of spare parts for a UK customer and a Far East customer. These are not considered production cars.

    FWIW I belive that LLA12995 was built to Canada-spec with USA side-markers and Fuelie engine - please confirm.

    Correct.

    Great that it will be shared at the Concours.

    Walter Wolf did not buy or receive the last Miura SV.

    I spoke with Wally myself @ 12 years ago when his memory was arguably fresher, and all he said was: "Ubaldo Sgarzi told me that I was getting the last Miura SV" (apparently this was not the only time Sgarzi said that). My reporting on this has been misconstrued, because I actually told him in one of our conversations that 5092 was not the last SV, and that there were several car built on the production line afterwards, and he accepted that. Its worth noting too, that when I spoke to Wally, he could not remember the chassis or engine numbers or corresponding dates of ANY of his Miuras or Countachs, period. We both concluded that back in those days before the advent of the internet, nobody kept that data. As such, Walter Wolf cannot corroborate anything to you, and perhaps, Sgarzi told him the same thing he told him about the Miura SV. Its easy to see how "one of the last ones" can be taken as "the last one".

    Basically, the most solid documentary evidence that exists that proves that LLA12995 is not the last Countach is what you have posted yourself.

    That said, this is a super-cool Countach by virtue of it's Wolf ownership.
    LLA12995b.jpg
     
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #2903 joe sackey, Jun 30, 2017
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    Make no mistake, this is the last production Countach.
    Lamborghini-Countach-Anniversario-Rueckansicht-Rueckleuchte-Park-Bremslicht-c890x594-ffffff-C-bf.jpg
    Lamborghini-Countach-Anniversario-Frontansicht-schraeg-Park-c890x594-ffffff-C-1666cd60-495628.jpg
     
  4. Lemacc

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    #2904 Lemacc, Jun 30, 2017
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    Joe, sure that the VIN of the museo 25th is LLA12085? When i saw the car some weeks ago i took a photo of the side window VIN which indicates KLA12085.
    SAM_1394.jpg
    SAM_1393.jpg
    SAM_1392.jpg
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Sorry I meant to say "KLA" and not LLA, I was thinking of the Wolf car's chassis number, you are correct and thank you for pointing this out.

    Again, this June 1990 completion car only underscores the fact that Lamborghini delivery dates consistently are not in-sequence with chassis numbers!

    I think the factory had plans for KLA12085 and set it aside.
     
  6. mt_jt

    mt_jt Formula Junior

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    I had no idea Walter Wolf had an Anniversary Countach.
    Joe, did he mention this particular car in your conversation with him all those years ago? I really like this particular model and would be interested to know what he thought of it versus the earlier Countach versions he championed. I know many feel it's overdone styling-wise but I believe Pagani was clever with how he managed to integrate the aerodynamic and engineering improvements into the existing design.
    Now is the time for the 25th Anniversary Countach to shine!
     
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  8. Robert W

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    Interesting...please can you give more details on these cars? There was quite a bun fight for the last RHD Anniversary built, and I have seen 5 different cars described as the last built - sounds like there is yet another...?
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    No I can't, I was told this by a factory insider (who I have no reason to doubt as he has always supplied accurate information) but he didn't elaborate and at the time I didn't press for detail. My study of the Ferrari factory for the 288 GTO book showed me that all factories do this. They have the production cars of, say, 300 cars, and then, there are always a small number of POST-production cars for assorted reasons, usually involving wealthy VIP clients.
     
  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    He did not.

    However, in fairness to Wolf, I never knew to bring it up and jog his memory.

    We spoke about his Miuras, and mostly about his 4-liter Countachs, essentially an LP400, 2 LP400 Speciales, and the LP400S Prototipo.
     
  11. bocaf430

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    I thought the last model year was 1989 anniversary but I see 1990 models ?
     
  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Sure, 1988, 1989 and 1990, the Tipo USA cars were the last 2 years.

    That said, all 25th Anniversarios are considered the last Countach variant, perhaps that's what you are referring to.
     
  13. revio

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    #2912 revio, Jul 9, 2017
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  15. Robert W

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    Link not working. Who posted photo on Instagram?
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It was working, but I believe it has been taken down - thankfully the image was embedded.

    ZA9C005A0KLA12018, first registered H 14 MBO on August the 1st 1990 via Portman Lamborghini in London.

    Indeed I saw this car when new, its 1 of 2 dark green 25ths, this one metallic, the other non-metallic.

    I think something has happened to the front end.

    It looks like the PS headlight lies on the floor in primer as can be seen in the bottom right of the image, and the uncovered lenses have been accidentally reversed to inadvertent Swiss spec.
     
  17. P300V8

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    #2915 P300V8, Jul 9, 2017
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    12085 is actually a later number than 12995 because the 12xxx series would have started afresh after reaching 12999.
     
  18. raymondQV

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    The only thing not in sync with KLA12085 is actually the digit for the year, it should be L instead of K.

    Common, it's Italy, who expected something else ?
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Without the year designation to clarify, either number could be a later number.


    Exactly.
     
  20. P300V8

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    If you consider the total production of this model, the earliest vin for a 25th according to ILR was 12158 so 12085 must be a later number, plus of course we already know the date 12085 was in production...
     
  21. raymondQV

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    We can even speculate, perhaps KLA12085 was a cancelled order, then they decided to keep this one as the final car for the Museum.
     
  22. P300V8

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    #2920 P300V8, Jul 10, 2017
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    You are looking for a mystery where none exists. Your extensive Jalpa knowledge should tell you that the letter code is related to the specification of a model year. This is why CLA12014 when renumbered as CLA12067, well into the DLA period, retained the CLA code. Similarly when CLA12014 was reissued to Mimran's later car as ELA12014 it did not retain the CLA code but adopted the code applicable to the specification of the later car.

    What nobody seems to have considered are the specifications of the KLA and LLA 25th cars during a transitory period...
     
  23. gday

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    #2921 gday, Jul 10, 2017
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    What proof do we have that this is accurate? That its a correct vin? That its tied to a 25th? Is there a build date available?

    Let me propose that the K year 25th VINs started with numbers 400 something. Somewhere around serial numbers 700, K and L year VINs were interspersed and wrapped back to 000 and onwards and that 12085 is in fact the last 25th vin. At the very least, this would produce 600+ VINs which matches 25th production.

    Can someone disprove this with 25th VINs (either K or L year) in the range 12085 -> 12399 beyond the one above?

    -mick
     
  24. raymondQV

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    ELA12014 had another reason, the jalpa was first not homologated in Switzerland, ELA12095 is the first known swiss jalpa, they added the Smog pump Equipment later when it sold.

    Without having Access to the production lists it's like searching a countach in the fog of London, you can hear here but aren't able to localize.
     
  25. P300V8

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    I cannot speak for the ILR. My posts are simply related to the numbering systems employed.
     
  26. P300V8

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    I just checked ILR again. The earliest car with a picture is KLA12446. If the 12xxx numbering rotates 12085 is effectively 13085, less 12446 = 639. Is this what you were looking for?
     
  27. gday

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    #2925 gday, Jul 11, 2017
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    Nice. The lowest 25th I know is KLA12432 and KLA12421 is a QV and has been discussed as possibly the last QV. I know of no 25ths 12086 thru 12431. I think my theory is holding water?

    -mick
     
  28. P300V8

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    #2926 P300V8, Jul 11, 2017
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    Of course it does. It is the reality...and the same system applied to the QV.

    Once again I only have ILR data ...

    FLA12798 to GLA12999 say 200
    GLA12002 to KLA12424 say 425

    QED
     
  29. Robert W

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    Hi, I have 12342 as the first U.K. Anniversary chassis number, but the car was supplied in late 1989, which seems odd, but know no details about the car. What do you know about 12432 and was it U.K. Supplied? Seems unlikely that the first Anniversary would come through the UK. But may as well ask!
     
  30. kc023515

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    The lowest VIN I've recorded as 25th is ZA9CA05A0KLA12428, the highest VIN I've recorded as a 5000S QV is ZA9CA05A3KLA12424.

    Assuming that 12428 was the "lowest" number on a 25th and 12085 was the "highest" number on a 25th this would make 658 numbers available to become a 25th.

    What I understand is that at the start of production all Countach 25th were KLA and this was kept until end of production for the European cars while for US cars they changed to LLA at some point.
     
  31. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    I just figured this pattern out as well. Definitely seems to be the case.

    -mick
     
  32. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    So the summary at this point is:

    1) The lowest 25th VIN confirmed known is KLA12428.
    2) The last 25th VIN is KLA12085.
    3) All US spec cars produced from August 1st 1989 onwards carried a VIN L model year.
    4) L model year cars started to appear with serial numbers in the 700 range. Lowest known is LLA12716.
    5) Since 12085 is not a US car, K for its model year is consistent with other non US spec cars.

    And...
    A) 25th's with VIN serial numbers ~428 thru 534 had taller gears.

    -mick
     
  33. ijvpet

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    The lowest 25th VIN that I know of is KLA12002

    Bianco Perlato owned now by Steve Waldie at Interstate Motorsports. You can see this Down Draft example on his website
     
  34. gday

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    #2932 gday, Jul 11, 2017
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    Maybe the "lowest" but not anywhere near the earliest and more likely one of the last. Maybe the summary at this point should be:

    1) The *first/earliest* 25th VIN confirmed known is KLA12428.
    2) The last 25th VIN is KLA12085.
    3) All US spec cars produced from August 1st 1989 onwards carried a VIN L model year.
    4) L model year cars started to appear with serial numbers in the 700 range. Lowest known is LLA12716.
    5) Since 12085 is not a US car, K for its model year is consistent with other non US spec cars.

    And...
    A) 25th's with VIN serial numbers ~428 thru 534 had taller gears.

    -mick
     
  35. kc023515

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    Thanks for the summary!

    3) Why do you believe this change was on all US spec cars produced from August 1st 1989 onwards ? I’m curious why it should be August 1st.
    4) I also have LLA12666 and LLA12683 in my records :)
     
  36. revio

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    #2934 revio, Jul 12, 2017
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  37. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    VIN model years start August 1st. If a US car is built on or after that date its supposed to reflect the current model year compliance in the VIN. That's the only explanation I can come up with for the L identifier.
    I've seen references to 12683 as being a French car? Therefore are you sure it carries an L model year? If the L cars started in the 600 range, is easy to note that fact here.

    -mick
     
  38. Robert W

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    Hi,

    Does anyone know what colour each of these Brunei Countach Anniversaries are (or have a photo of any of them?) ?

    LAM COUNTACH registration: BK37 VIN: ZA9C005AOKLA12913
    LAM COUNTACH registration: BN2993 VIN: ZA9C005A0KLA12964
    LAM COUNTACH registration: BN2098 VIN: ZA9C005A0KLA12938
    LAM COUNTACH registration: DPD VIN: ZA9C005A0KLA12047
    LAM COUNTACH registration: BN5959 VIN: ZA9C005A0KLA12817

    Also, does anyone know why this car has an RLA chassis number?

    LAM COUNTACH BN2828 ZA9DE22A0RLA12085

    It's great having the chassis numbers and the registration numbers, but without any pictures of the cars with the number plates, it's all a bit meaningless!!

    As far as I can go is that I think one of these five cars is yellow and one is black....but as with all things Lamborghini and Brunei, I'm not entirely sure......

    Hope the collective expertise on here can shed some light on this!

    Many thanks

    Robert
     
  39. Mr Mezzanotte

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  40. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    And one char in the VIN is suspect.

    ZA9DE22A0RLA12085

    should more than likely be:

    ZA9DE27A0RLA12085

    -mick
     
  41. Mr Mezzanotte

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  42. gday

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  43. valenciennes

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    #2941 valenciennes, Aug 15, 2017
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    I have seen the Walter Wolf Countach, on his way to factory concours Lamborghini in 1 month
    _DSC0017.jpg
    _DSC0006 (2).jpg
    80.jpg
    _DSC0028.jpg
     
  44. raymondQV

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  45. topcarbon

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    #2943 topcarbon, Aug 15, 2017
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    Pretty excited
    This is coming my way
    Should arrive on Friday
    IMG_5906.jpg
     
  46. EarlyCat

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    Well congratulations!
     
  47. ttforcefed

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    Congrats! Which one did you buy?


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  48. topcarbon

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToG0maHMbrI&feature[/ame]
     
  49. ttforcefed

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    Nice! That paint job is amazing!!


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  50. topcarbon

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    Rosso perlato
     
  51. ttforcefed

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    Yep seeing that car at the auction in nyc made me want to paint mine for a month!


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  52. key03

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