Countach Tires - does anyone care

Of course, they'll have to make them in 205 Series for LP400S and LP500S, and 225 Series for the QVs, about a 50% split.

Here below is an LP500S imaged when new, the P7 completes the car's overall appeal.
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The link between the Pirelli P7 and the Countach goes back in the company's advertising, and personally I think they should do a new advertising campaign to maximize this effort, should they undertake it.
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This Pirelli Ad is more famous
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Here is a thought Joe, commission Pirelli to make the P7 exclusively for you, you become the sole distributor. P7's are back...Zero's are history....It only takes a little of your own money to take the risk

 

I would need at least one set of P7s as well!

 

I'm happy to help champion the cause of the return of the P7, but I'm not a tire distributor, so it makes no sense for me to get in the middle when the win-win is directly between the manufacturer and their end-users. Pirelli has been around for 108 years and I think they have the resources to do this all by themselves!

I believe Pirelli will receive the suggestion well, after all, they took a similar risk in making an even older tire in the CN12 for the Miura etc, so this is not new territory for them. All they need to see is a little owner-enthusiasm.

A print article on Pirelli's Supertire the P7 and how it came to be the tire that helped make the Countach famous, is something I can perhaps do to help.
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Hopefully Pirelli's idea of producing the P7 for the Countach doesn't mean making them in our size with the current tread pattern! LOL!

I would sure think the original molds are still around. Seems like they could use the new, more modern compound materials in the old molds.

Mike
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When Pirelli recently remade the CN12 Cinturato, the tire they produced (below) had modern compounds, and the tire design & tread pattern were faithful to the original tire.

The P7 is not as old as the CN12, so its reasonable to expect the molds are still around.

As with the CN12, I think its understood that the interest would be for the original design & tread pattern.
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We once visited one of Michelin's factories in Germany with the german Club.
The technique to produce a tire did not change dramatically over years, the old moulds should still be usable.

 

Perhaps also the Monaco 1982 pace car...

 

Well, it seems the PZero is sold out anyway and we probably won't see new ones until 2024. What we have learned in the last 15yrs, or so, is that if Pirelli makes a tire, we buy it regardless. Most owners on this forum did. We know it will be a minimum of 10-12 years before we see them again.

Also, is it just you that would work with them?

Or, is this something that you can go beyond the enthusiast and work with/be in contact with/get feedback from distributors?

Again, going back to tirerack.com or the like, would it make sense to work with or discuss with them, as big as they are, how the sales of their 345's went..... as well as the 205's? (225 I think maybe more used).

OR, would you be the only supplier?

If so, would it make sense to sell to massive distributors as well as car owners?

OR, do these distributors only buy from the manufacturer?

Also, understand that there are owners who only read and do not post.

 

A couple of quick comments:

As I estimated, 800 cars is realistic and viable.

I think the front P7s will be used by many vintage cars from the mid-70s to the mid-80s, thousands of Porsche 930s included, to give just one example.

Yes, I know the price that the 255/60VR15 CN12 was last time it was made for Lamborghini. Terrifying to some, but, many bought them considering the car was a million-dollar car at that time - now its worth even more, so you'll find that there are many who will put the numbers in perspective. As values have gone up for the Countach, I'd imagine now is a better time for this than ever before.

Lastly, as Peter suggests, surely there are other distributors besides yourself who deal in vintage tires that can spread the risk with you, some of whom are well-renowned.

 

Spot on! Great questions! A P7 would be wonderful, but really how many sets would you sell. You have only a small handful of Countach owners here. Most of the Countach's left are rarely driven, if even driven, and if driven, not enough miles to justify regular replacements. At least we still have the Zero made every how many years. And it is still available from some distributers. As for the comment of "I think the front P7s will be used by many vintage cars from the mid-70s to the mid-80s, thousands of Porsche 930s included, to give just one example", whilst those thousands of 930's used 16" tires. Hate to sound like a bummer or negative type, but it really boils down to a simple business decision

 

Not sure how many were produced, but the Pantera GT5 also used the Pirelli P7 345/35 15 at the rear also. So, there is one more marque that would benefit from a new run of P7's.

Mike

 

Correct, I mentioned a page ago that both the De Tomaso Pantera GT5 and the Lancia Stratos Rally Spec cars used the 345 series tire in the rear. And there are quite a few Lancia Stratos, both genuine and otherwise!

Then there are all the tuner manufacturers from the late 70s and early 80s whose cars used 345 series rears, some of which are still revered and being restored in those car communities - Kremer, Koenig, Gemballa, DP, etc.

 

To suggest that the 930 did not use 15"s, or suggest that they only used 16"s is misinformation. I know a little about early 3.0 930s, so I started a good long-running thread on the 930 elsewhere, and Ive owned a handful of them, including a USA Prototype 930, so I have a little bit of knowledge about them.

Let me try to explain more fully: Upon the advent of the P7 from 1975 on, Porsche was the first major manufacturer to put them on their production cars. The 1975 3.0 930 was indeed optioned with 15" wheels and P7s, as was the 1976 3.0 930. The reason most USA examples of the 1976 3.0 930 typically came with Pirelli P7s is because they were precise profile for ensuring that the correct-ride-height to meet DOT bumper & headlamp mandates. In fact, the optional P7 205/50 VR 15 fronts for the 3.0 930 were the exact same spec as the fronts for the Countach LP400S and the Countach LP500S, and the optional P7 225/50 VR 15 rears for the 3.0 930 were the exact same size as the fronts for all Countach QVs!

There are some good sources that detail all the aforementioned, including publications by Karl Ludvigsen and Randy Leffingwell, which you can cross-reference.

Also, literally thousands of 911 Carreras and SCs were optionally shod with similar-dimensioned 15" Pirelli P7s.

Lets not forget all the Porsche 928s (1977 - 1982 examples) half of which were optioned with 15" P7s, and the 924s and 944s that were also thus-optioned.

Of course, anyone who studies the period from 1975 to the late 1980s will find that Saab, BMW, Alfa Romeo, FIAT, Volvo, Lancia, Lotus, Renault, Jaguar, and Aston Martin often optioned their cars with 15" Pirelli P7s of similar dimensions.

Find attached some relevant period Ads for your viewing pleasure.

The truth is, thousands & thousands of cars can use the front 15" Pirelli P7s that the Countach uses, that much is indisputable.

My feeling is that one way or another, the new P7 will be made, as I believe, you can't keep a good thing down, and the P7 is a good thing. Now that the cars are this valuable, it makes sense, plain & simple. For those who can't see this yet, that's okay, all it takes is a movement and just one guy who can pull the necessary strings & levers to say "yes".

For example, I just received a PM tonight from a multiple Countach owner who is reading this but not posting (perhaps he will come on and say something). He tells me he has an ongoing 7-figure per-year business relationship with the President of Pirelli North America. One thing could lead to another.

Ive learned to never give up on anything, it may take years, and the journey may take some twists & turns, but, IMHO, it'll happen, and the ultimate beneficiary will be the car, the Countach.
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Joe, as a collector of 930s and 928s, you are once again spot on. I actually found this ad last night to post this am:
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Being a long time 930 & 928 owner, the 15" tire sizes on the Countach would be a patch work choice for the thousands of Porsche owners Joe describes.

The OEM size for the first two years of 930 production (16" thereafter):

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Porsche&autoModel=930&autoYear=1976&autoModClar=

The OEM size for the early 928:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Porsche&autoModel=928&autoYear=1980&autoModClar=

The OEM size for early 944:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/SelectTireSize.jsp?autoMake=Porsche&autoModel=944&autoYear=1984&autoModClar=

 

I understand what you are saying.

But the fact remains that when you add up the 930s in the first 2 years that did use 15"s wheels, (not all of them I'll concede), and the 928s, 924s, 944s, 911 Carreras, 911 SCs (not all of them I'll concede), plus all of the Saab, BMW, Alfa Romeo, FIAT, Volvo, Lancia, Lotus, Renault, Jaguar, and Aston Martin cars that often optioned their cars with 15" Pirelli P7s, it does add up to thousands of cars.

As a Countach owner, one would think that you'd be optimistic, hopeful even, but, you are entitled to your skepticism, and I understand it is well-founded.

Since Dougal himself is skeptical, I concede this isn't going anywhere via this particular avenue, but as we all know, there are always multiple avenues.

Perhaps we give this a rest and revisit another time at another venue.

Meanwhile Happy New Year and Best Wishes for 2016.

 

The GT5-S as well as Grp IV cars also use the 345/35/15. I contacted Pirelli a few years back asking them would type of interest would it take to do a production run for that size as well as the 285/40/15. The gentleman that I spoke with was going to pass this request to his boss. Never got a reply.

 

I'll take two sets.

I have a brand new correct set of 1984's for my Countach that I'm afraid to drive on due to age.

I'll also be willing to take at least eight 225/50/15's for my Porsche.

If they can make 225/50/16's my e28 ///M5 can use a new set as well. =)

ALL of my 1980's cars take P-7's.

 

Having gone down the path of making many different parts for vintage cars that I was assured there was a 'HUGE' market for I can assure you that they have all been enthusiast projects that have been total commercial failures.

When you figure that less than 2000 Countaches have been made, close to half of them use the P-Zero or XWX that leaves about 1000 cars that could benefit from P7's. Most Countaches get very little mileage, there are other tire options currently available, and there is the huge problem of perceived shelf life of tires making date codes of more than 6 months a serious problem. All of this contributes to an exceptionally small market of people who are potential buyers most of which will turn tail and run when they see how expensive tires of such low production would be. I would expect a rear P7 in Countach size to be just off the charts pricey and in the end neither Pirelli nor the retailer will ever make much money even though most people will say that they are getting royally ripped off.

Don't get me wrong I would LOVE to see the P7 reproduced and think that it is a drop dead sexy tire but I am seriously struggling to make any financial sense of the project. Maybe Walter Wolf could repeat history and finance the project

 

Approximately 1,268 cars.

More to come on this as posted elsewhere: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144416811-post1345.html