David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

...and by that reasoning you can also put a P4 body on a Can Am, but its still a Can Am.

 

Zing!

Thanks for playing.

End thread.

 

...and by that reasoning you can put a Can Am body on a P4. It's still a P4.

 

That speaks volumes Id say.

 

You declared the Silver Medallist as the winner before the finishing line.

 

and after thinking about it for years Ferrari seems to have now decided that they won't even Classiche Piperised 0858 as a White Book "P4". I think a big part of it is the engine. It's not P4 Tipo. It remains 350 Can Am Tipo which revs higher and has more horse power. It's engine doesn't meet the FIA specifications that a P4 engine has and which P4 0858 had when it was homolagated as a P4. I think at the time of the auction Ferrari insisted that a new proper P4 Specification Classiche engine would have had to have been made to get a White Book. If one wants to buy Piperised P4 and have Ferrari Classiche make a new proper P4 specification Classiche engine they should call Ferrari and ask it this would make a difference to them and if they would change their mind once again and issue a White Book. Personally I agree with Michael that, that ship has sailed.

 

Its a shame that Ferrari did much more than just that in 1967 with regard to 0858 then isn't it?

That's why 0858 hasn't been a P4 since that time.

 

Aww. Diddums.

 

No question that if FERRARI had been willing to reconvert 0858 to a Red Book P4 the bids would have been much higher. I was told a potential bidder asked all the way up to LDM to do exactly that but LDM said no and the bids reflect that. I also think the auctioneers disclaimer right before bidding that the car being auctioned was a 350 Can AM let everyone clearly know where Ferrari stood especially as the auction was occurring at the Factory.

 

And that reasoning would work if you had a P4 to put it on.

As stated before Ferrari will not recognize this as a P4. They see the car as a Can Am.

So yeah. You're reasoning would work if the underpinnings were P4.

But going by your reasoning and seeing that the underpinnings are Can Am we'd have to agree that this is what it is. A Can Am with a Fake poorly made copy of a P4 body.

 

Please save the sympathy for Talacrest and the owner.

They are putting their names to this replica as well as their cash.

 

Of course this engine was never in a P4 When E F heard the FIA rules for 1968 would limit the engine size for prototypes to 3 liters except for the GT 40s at 5 liters he cancelled all further development of the P4 and dropped out of all prototype world championship competition for 1968. 0858 P4 was converted into a Can Am car but on S.F. paper was still 0858 P4. David MacKay clearly states that the car Aman imported into Australia for his Scuderia Veloce was listed as 0858 P4 on paper and so must have had the same chassis stampings.Two engines came with the car one of which probably was this one. The other was what ever P4 engine,enlarged by 200 cc, was in the car. True there is no paperwork at S.F. showing chassis 0858 P4 being renumbered and I doubt any of those consulted at the auction were anywhere Maranello in 1967. S.F. records on file are known to be inaccurate for this period. Not so much in Australia but when Hawkins got the car in South Africa all kinds of changes were made including engines for which there is no documentation. It should be of no surprise that the engine now in 0858 is not a P4 engine. The measurements of this engine hopefully will come out some day. It should be accepted that this engine will be the one installed by Talacrest. No one is claiming that 0858 will be a perfect P4 restoration. That's imposable. She is much better off as a slightly imperfect P4 than the Can Am car noone wants. tongascrew

 

It wasn't just other bidders that were asking Ferrari about a reconversion to P4 configuration, Jim himself did too. Look back in this thread. For somebody who has such a love for the Can Am and who says he has no interest whatsoever in reconverting the car to a P4 that's a pretty good indicator of what his intentions were for the car, especially given his track record for rebodying cars into P4 form.

 

Seeing that this P4/$ never crossed the finish line... Well.

 

'Slightly imperfect' :0)

 

What ever engine is in the car now at Talacrest it is a Ferrari factory built engine of the period built for 0858. Better this than a new Classiche P4. tongascrew

 

What you are missing is that there are no $$$ for the Can Am car in any condition. The car had over 30 years as a Can Am car to be sold and no one wanted it. tongascrew

 

Nobody wanted it at the price the owner thought it was worth as a Can Am.

Piperisation nearing completion and the story remains the same.

 

Afterall Enzo sold you the engine, not the body. So therefore I'm guessing that Enzo would consider this a Can Am just based on the motor without even going further on what is not correct P4 on this car.

Sure alot of Ferrari motors look similar, 12 cylinders and all. But saying a 250 and a 330 motor are the same is clearly wrong. Different motors makes a different car. Same case here.

I guess this could be a 350 P4. Small problem with that is... Ferrari never made one of those.

 

Agreed better then a new motor. Same belief for a new body.

Thanks for proving the point.

But prob is their where alot of motors built in that period that are not correct for a P4 so your rationalization doesn't hold water.

Just cause it has Twelve cylinders, says Ferrari, And was built in period doesn't make it the right motor for any car.

This Motor is right for the 350 Can Am.

Enzo sold you the motor the rest was gravy.

Just due to the motor this car is a 350 Can Am.

Things need to be correct not close and from period to be authentic.

Even if it was the correct motor. The belief that it never ran in a P4 to begin with leaves it with no significant P4 history.

350 Can am was correct and survived from period therefore authentic.

This car is cobbled together with the wrong parts killing an authentic car. Therefore a mistake.

 

What you are missing is that money is not what is important here, history is.

And there was money offered on the Can Am. People just wanted upwards P4 money for it and therefore it didn't sell.

People think making it look like a P4 will bring that money. It wont.

 

This is B.S.

It went unsold for 30 years cause Medlin wasn't looking to sell it.

 

Will this car be allowed to race in various events as a P4?

 

Show me another 1960s engine that is closer to a P4. There are three choises. This Can Am engine as is , a Classiche P4 or modify/rebuild the Can Am to P4 specs. Unfortunatly there is no such thing as perfectly correct. The nearest you are going to get is 0790 and possibly 0401/0422 and a very few others tongascrew

 

Thanks for once again proving my point. Close only counts in horseshoes.

Close doesn't cut it here.

Actually there is such a thing as perfectly correct. Afterall it is a 350 Can Am motor in a 350 Can Am.

See the LOGIC yet???