Deal is done. McLaren Renault & Toro Rosso Honda for 2018

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Sep 11, 2017.

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  1. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Formula 3
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    Reports in Germany say the announcement will come at the Singapore Grand Prix, it is believed that the deal has been completed and we’ll see a swop of Power Units in 2018.
    With the final jigsaw piece falling into place with the announcement at the weekend, that Carlos Sainz will leave Toro Rosso for the works Renault team next year as a sweetener for the transition. The very talented Carlos has certainly outgrown his time at Toro Rosso so his leaving the Red Bull stable isn’t a huge surprise.

    Originally the announcement was set for Monza but delays in discussions between the parties meant the announcement had to wait until the next race at Singapore. Indeed it seemed that the governing body FIA and FOM mandated that McLaren had the right not to be blackmailed into keeping Honda and so had a part to play in the discussions. Honda made it very clear that they’d only work with McLaren in Formula One or they’d leave. Had such a ultimatum occurred, McLaren would not have an engine supply as the other manufacturers are limited to supply a set number of teams.

    Many have argued that McLaren simply can’t afford to ditch Honda as they provide the driver salaries along with free engine supply and development. But Zak Brown, boss of McLaren had already made clear that in order for McLaren to prosper, they need to be further up that grid and that was his priority. Indeed, their desire to keep Alonso was foremost in their mind with this decision.

    Now the deal has been done, Toro Rosso will likely begin the slow disentanglement from Red Bull and become the works Honda team. Interesting times ahead.

    https://thejudge13.com/2017/09/11/deal-is-done-mclaren-renault-toro-rosso-honda-for-2018/
     
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  2. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    I guess it's a good deal...for everyone....Renault gets better drivers, Sainz a better team, Mclaren a better engiine..and Toro Rosso cheaper engines....
     
  3. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB Formula 3

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    Yeh TR get cheaper engines...but will they be any good?

    Alonso can stay at McLaren ,but who will stump up his huge salary?
     
  4. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    I have a strange feeling Honda will make huge progress with their engines this off season. Just a feeling....
     
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  5. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie
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    Great news for mclaren. Good news for Honda too - they will save a whole ton of money vs funding mclaren and Alonso. Good for TR - they get cheap pus and head towards independence. Thumbs up all round.
     
  6. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    What he said
     
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  8. TheMayor

    TheMayor Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Bad news for McLaren.

    First, they use to have the Mercedes engine. That engine is now in Force India. And, they ain't doing too badly with it.

    Second, they went into this thing thinking they were going to win championships with Honda AND have an exclusive supplier of free engines for 10 years. Oh, and get the drivers at 1/2 price because of Honda paying the other half.

    Now they are begging for the 3rd best engine so they can get rid of the 4th worst engine. And, the 3rd best engine is one they have to pay for now, along with all the driver's salaries and any other perks Honda tossed in for free.

    This is something to celebrate? I don't think so.

    Lastly, now the Honda engine is in the control of RB. If Honda gets their act together then the motor will go from TR to RB and McLaren will look pretty foolish if they win with it.
     
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  9. Caracciola

    Caracciola Rookie
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    McLaren must have figured out that Honda would not come good before the end of this formula.
    Waiting 3 more years wasn't an option.

    Red Bull can take a gamble, because it has 2 teams and can experiment on TR, without damaging RB. .
     
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  10. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Sainz will likely race for Renault already in less than 3 weeks
     
  11. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    Thankfully, it is way past time for Palmer to leave.
     
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  12. NEP

    NEP Formula 3

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    SEPTEMBER 11, 2017

    Sainz not confirming Renault switch

    Carlos Sainz looks set to contest his final race for Toro Rosso this weekend in Singapore.

    Multiple sources are reporting that, in Singapore, the Spaniard will sign a contract to complete his switch from the junior Red Bull team to Renault.

    He will reportedly replace the struggling Jolyon Palmer, with Red Bull rookie Pierre Gasly jetting in from his Super Formula duties in Japan to fill in for Sainz at Toro Rosso.

    It appears to be the move that completes the complex divorce saga between McLaren and Honda, with the British team switching to Renault power for 2018 and Toro Rosso signing up with Honda.

    However, Sainz is not confirming his impending move.

    "Red Bull does its best for my career and so whatever they decide, I will accept it," he told Marca sports newspaper during a sponsor event at the weekend.

    "It is difficult for me because what I say may please one person and displease another, so I prefer to say nothing.

    "All I know is that there are many people in Toro Rosso that I want to think for making me the driver I am today," Sainz added.

    Asked if a conclusion to the entire McLaren-Honda-Renault-Toro Rosso saga is now imminent, he answered: "I don't know.

    "But I think for the sake of the teams involved, they are going to have to decide sooner rather than later, because (preparation for) 2018 is already here," Sainz told EFE nes agency.

    Germany's Auto Bild said the transfer fee agreed between Red Bull and Renault for Sainz is EUR 8 million.

    The publication said Sainz, 22, had a seat fitting at Renault's Enstone factory last week.
     
  13. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    Given that a team with the resources of McLaren could not generate decent results with the Honda power unit, I'm puzzled that some of you think Toro Rosso can. This seems good news all around, except for Toro Rosso.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  15. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Formula 3
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    I think RB can afford TR to be in the back of the grid IF Honda fails for one or two years
     
  16. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    I have a strange feeling Honda will make huge progress with their engines this off season.
     
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  17. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ
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    STR 2018 World Champion :D
     
  18. VPX

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    Well, for sure NO ONE can say they're expecting this outcome :D
     
  19. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Illien has taken over the development of the engine. Aside from my Swiss bias, you have to consider that it was him who brought several other engines from ok to fantastic, in F1 and IRL.

    If anybody can make the Honda engine more powerful it is him.
     
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  20. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ
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    at 4000-1 I wouldn't mind sticking 20 on it. :D
     
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  21. VPX

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    If only betting was permitted in Brazil....Anyway I'm moving to UK so that's a good bet, Bas! :D
     
  22. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Rookie
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    Alonso to Toro Rosso in shock move!!

    Just kidding. I wanted to see who was awake this morning. I'm tired of hearing and reading about these bloody hurricanes.

    Have a nice day.
     
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  23. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Got my attention. :)

    I wouldn't mind hearing about the hurricanes if the media would actually bother to report about the Caribbean where they did the most damage. But no, we are so US centric.
     
  24. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 Veteran
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    except when it comes to NAFTA!;)
     
  25. JWeiss

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    Perhaps, but this current "engine" formula seems capable of bringing even the Giants of engine design to their knees.
     
  26. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131767/mclaren-agrees-deal-to-leave-honda-for-renault

    McLaren has reached agreement with Honda to be released from their partnership and switch to Renault power from the 2018 Formula 1 season, Autosport has learned.

    Honda's return to F1 with McLaren has been disastrous since it came back to the grid in 2015, with a lack of performance and constant reliability problems holding the once-successful partnership back during its second iteration.

    The relationship has become so fractious during 2017 that it became clear a split was likely, with Renault emerging as McLaren's only realistic alternative.

    Sources close to the deal have confirmed to Autosport that McLaren has agreed a three-year deal with Renault, taking it to the end of the current F1 engine regulations cycle at the end of 2020.
     
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  27. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    So, where does this leave Alonso? Wasn't a large portion of his salary paid by Honda and wasn't it with their blessing that he raced for Andretti-Honda at Indy?

    I can't see Renault doing either of those things.
     
  28. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 Veteran

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    I suppose Honda could become magically great at making engines next year, but it's doubtful. It would be a terrible feeling for McLaren if that were to happen. The Renault, although third best engine, has won a race and scored multiple podiums. It's not like the four engines are evenly spaced in performance...the Renault is a good engine and then there's a huge dropoff to 4th with the Honda.

    As long as the McLaren chassis is as good as people say and Alonso is not going to complain and focusing on driving, they'll be getting multiple podiums and fighting for 3rd in the WCC.
     
  29. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Kvyat 2018 WDC?

    Toro Rosso the opposite of Brawn GP?
     
  30. TheMayor

    TheMayor Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Alonso next year at the French GP

    "GP2! GP2!" :)
     
  31. VPX

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    Any official annoucement?

    Until the moment, only informed by "Sources close to the deal..."
     
  32. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    If Honda gets their act together, they'll certainly be able to cause some turmoil. STR has for years been building very decent cars.
     
  33. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It'd be funny and interesting. That said I can't imagine Kvyat (or Kefir as NBC calls him for no good reason at all) doing anything like that. IMHO one of the worst drivers on the grid.
     
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  34. JWeiss

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    The McLaren/STR battle - whether it occurs near the top, middle, or bottom of the grid - will be epic!
     
  35. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    I'm onboard with this. If anything, Renault by next season are likely to be well-within striking range of the top two engine manufacturers. My concern for McLaren are the birthing pains they will deal with the first half of the season, or less, with the new PU. That said, I can see McLaren performing better and regaining a number of sponsors which may lead to their ultimate plan to produce their own PU by the next engine formula.
     
  36. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie
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    This.

    I am constantly amazed by the folk who automatically presume that Honda has some mystical fairy dust that will somehow be sprinkled on their utterly useless PU to turn it into a monster world beater. It hasn't happened for 3 looooonnng years. Somehow, Mclaren's faith in Honda's fairy dust has evaporated. Not a great surprise, and they have waited long enough.

    And we should not underestimate Renault's potential to further develop's it's PU next year. Why can't they catch Merc and Ferrari? Renault are far more committed to F1 - they at least have a team. Honda could just pull the plug at any time - like they did when they had their own team before.
     
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  37. TheMayor

    TheMayor Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Zak Brown better start praying the Honda engine sucks next year. If the TR car beats McLaren or even appears to be competitive with Alonso he's toast.

    I see Honda taking advantage of this knowing they could end up powering the RB team in the future. No one expects much out of them now so any improvement will be magnified.
     
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  38. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie
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    You are right, but don't for one moment think that McLaren don't know exactly what developments Honda are planning to make to their engine for next year. Their judgement is that it isn't enough and Renault will do better. That's all you need to know.
     
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  39. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    You assume they replaced the guy responsible for PU judgements?
     
  40. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Another side effect of this is that Kubica's F1 return is likely dead in the water
     
  41. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    This. Honda has had 3 years to put up or shut up. They won't be arriving with an engine even close to as good as Renault next year. So McLaren gets to be competitive again AND they likely keep the best driver on the grid. HUGE win for them.
     
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  42. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    This is Samsung v Apple. Samsung have proven they simply haven't the technical chops to really edge out Apple. Honda simply haven't the necessary technical chops for F1. This isn't motoGP where Honda engines perform quite well, nor is it a modified road car category. Honda unfortunately just learned 'the hard way' and I believe put a bit of hurt to their brand name in doing so.
     
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  43. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula Junior

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    Indeed.

    Required reading from the Autosport premium article, esp for all the Honda fans out there...

     
  44. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Agreed

    And quite frankly I don't get it. He should get a seat after the Hungary tests.
     
  45. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Formula 3
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  46. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
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  47. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Rookie
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    Wait for it to become official next week.
     
  48. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    I think it will be sooner, maybe tomorrow or during the weekend
     
  49. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Agreed I thought he did an exemplary job. Must be very tough for him to get close again only to have it fall apart
     
  50. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    "Anticipating that Honda-Ilmor wouldn't succeed in its task, McLaren continued efforts to secure a supply of customer engines from Mercedes. The F1 team was supposedly reticent to agree to this, fearing an Alonso-driven McLaren would be a threat to its own prospects at certain tracks."


    Shows just how good people think Alonso is.
     
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  51. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'd like to see Alonso V Verstappen next year a few times. A battle we've been robbed of 3 seasons now.
     
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  52. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Agreed. I don't think anyone on the grid wants any part of those 2
     
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