Differences in parts between QV FI and QV DD engines?

Nowbody is trying to detrone the dd. its awesome, its about giving the same engine fith fi ,the chance to breathe without the cats and a dd exhaust set up. Thats all there is. No more. Will it run with the dd. perhaps. Perhaps not. Thats ok. Its a discussion, until proven, i do not have the answer. All i do know is there is acc to the factory a35 hp difference. Wich Could be found in thr exhaust. We all know the finwas done to satisfie the us. But perhaps also a goodnopportunity for the factory t start adapting for things to come��������

 

There is not a lot of difference between the DD header and the FI header. The FI engine has a heat shield over the primary tubes to help retain the heat in the exhaust. This is done to help light off the catalytic converter faster on a cold start. Under the heat shield is tube header.

Early cats consisted of a bunch of platinum coated pellets, these were very restrictive and had a big impact on performance. Later cats (I believe they came out at the end of the seventies) have a platinum coated matrix. The later matrix cats were not that restrictive to exhaust flow. If the matrix style cats are sized right they have no effect on horsepower. Due to the cost of platinum most manufacturers tend to undersized the cat slightly.

Bottom line is there are many differences between the FI and DD cars. Either one can be modified for improved performance. But the changes will be more extensive on a FI for a given performance goal. However the stated 30 hp between the two is less than ten percent. Different drivers can make a bigger difference than that. Right now the biggest advantage the FI has is cost. For all practical purposes you get the same driving experience for far less money.

Cheers Jim

 

Good post

 

You bring up the 800-pound Gorilla in the room

Seriously, if you speak to any of the old guard who were involved with designing & building these cars (as I know you do), no further explanation is necessary.

 

No.

I skipped your post, for the simple reason that I could not understand its content, with jumbled-up and run-on sentences without a break, as is often the case. I think if you took your time and wrote clear concise thoughts, given consideration before posting, it would go a long way towards them being well-received.

 

Yeah I assure you he is for real, he owns a real Downdraft, and has done for the best part of 20 years, a respected long-term Lamborghini aficionado & owner of much renown.

He doesn't have to ready any of your posts if he doesn't want to, especially if they are unintelligible.

I think you need to chill out a bit.

 

Your mind can boggle as much as you'd like it to, and you can be as disappointed as much as you wish - your prerogative. My viewpoint may make no sense to you, but I guarantee you it makes absolutely perfect sense to many people, and, I do belive that my thoughtful, balanced, and dispassionate view is both well-received and respected in the community by more than a few, this latter notion is not lost on me, either.

Personally, I think we are in an era where its time to wax lyrical and extol the virtues of the Downdraft like never before as we learn more about what separates that car from other variants. I promise, I will get serious about that one of these days

At the same time, regarding how we really feel about Fuelies, this thread, the comments within, and the posture of some such as yourself shows that the time for subtleties & nuances is over. Up till now, I think we have all been being far too polite by tip-toeing around this subject, but within this thread, the need for that has clearly passed - I can thank you for that inspiration - with apologies in advance to all who own a Fuelie, somehow I don't think they will take what I am about to say too personally, but if they do, I can always tell them you inspired me.

From the point-of-view of an experienced and dedicated Countach specialist, here is my take:

The Tipo USA Fuel-injected Countach with all its DOT conformities is singularly the worst Countach that Sant Agata ever officially produced, period, from an aesthetics, mechanicals and performance perspective. As the English journalist LJK Setright once wrote: “it has absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever” in Countach terms, that is. Its the very last Countach variant I would recommend anyone owning, and, in fact, its arguably the worst production pre-Chrysler Lamborghini, period. It is so bad that the only way it is acceptable to any enthusiast is to modify it to copy a European version car with a Euro Look Job. Going forward, knowing what I now know, I would never recommend anyone buy one, and in fact, I have gotten into trouble already for recommending against buying one (as I always do), so what’s new? Business as usual. That’s my feeling on the subject, and, as I go about my business day-to-day, I simply tell it like I feel and what I know to be best for both potential & existing clients who have a choice. I think people appreciate that, and perhaps that’s why some of the world’s most prominent collectors use my services.

Tomorrow, I'll tell you what I really think about the Fuelie!

A word of advice - if you wish to Champion the cause of a particular variant you own, the best path is not to continually and ceaselessly try to diminish something else that is clearly superior to what you have. How can I put this in simple terms with a good analogy? Here is one: as the owner of another make of bike, you don't walk into a bar full of Hells Angles and try to convince them that Harleys suck

 

Thank you Rob.

 

Not at all, my focus has always been on the Downdraft in a positive way http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/lamborghinichat-com-sponsored-cats-exotics/503457-countach-downdraft.html and of course anyone (myself included) understands that the reason a Fuelie is purchased in the first place is because at the point of purchase it represented good value or a means to enjoy the Countach experience.

Just because I respond to your comments in rebuttal, does not mean this is a personal thing for me, I could care less who owns what. That said, you do not represent Fuelie owners, in fact Im sure some of them wish you would not draw attention to the difference between it and the Downdraft in the negative manner that you do, with rambling & disparaging comments based on assumptions. The difference between the variants is more than the exhaust system, but clearly you appear unwilling to accept experienced & proven information. Until you become open-minded, expect responses to your remarks to be as assertive as yours. As you like to say, its a discussion.

 

Interesting posts in this thread. Had I had the option of buying a Euro spec QV back in the day I would have. Euro spec cars of any make typically have an advantage over their USA counterparts.

I've driven every Countach after the 400s and to say the US spec QV is the slowest is cruel but I see the humor. Before my QV I had 3 5000S's and they were all off pace. Not to say you cant extract 400 bhp from a 5000s (it also has its charm).

To me the difference is simply Euro vs US spec. Both cars are QV's. If you're buying a car today in 2017 where we can easily get a Euro car I'd say go for it. You'll avoid having to convert a US car into Euro spec.

The factory will still document and certify your car as official if you change it back partially or completely (as long as its done by Lamborghini or an authorized shop [ guess they didn't catch my badge ]). I know this first hand. At least this was true 15 years ago.

All that being said I've really enjoyed this thread. There are differences between the cars but they're not different models. There has been some very real "hype" going on but a rising tide raises all boats.

 

15 years was a long time ago and I doubt the factory would Certify a car today that has been substantially modified under its current program, things have changed a lot in the last decade or so!

The only hype I see is the cry that the Fuelie and the Downdraft are "the same" by Fuelie owners. The Downdraft thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/lamborghinichat-com-sponsored-cats-exotics/503457-countach-downdraft.html was started for a legitimate reason, the discovery of the FIA Homologation documents last year, the first time their existence had been revealed in 28 years.

I do agree with you, if you look closely, the thread is both informative & enjoyable!

 

joe. You will always ,only hear yorself.

 

Thanks for posting that Header pic. Looks more like a chamber where exaust gases collide and fight for a chance to escape I know the headers made a huge difference with my FI car in both sound and performance.

 

I guess i need to get headers. Hopefully it will run up there with a 1984 fi 2 valver.

 

What total percentage of all parts on a QV Countach do you think differ from a FI car and a DD car.....one percent? Same car, just some equipted differently for different markets.

 

are there any difference btw the QV FI and anniversary FI engines?

 

Something for the US cars that you can do is change the positioning of the intakes. The red QV is not my car, I pulled its image off google.

I've been hosting an 89 Anni at my house for quite sometime and the throttle response in my QV is sharper.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The Anniversary replaced some of the hose with an actual plenum but you still of have a 180 degree turn. It would seem this is an improvement over a stock QV.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The cis injection system is hugely restrictive. Never mind the added weight of all the emissions related components on any injected car. Add to that the heavier bumpers and structure installed in the USA cars.

I have driven really fast and responsive countach's and have driven cars I feel a Volkswagen could out run. The fi cars seem very inconsistent.

The fi cars warm up regulators were actually modified by the factory to restrict fuel delivery inorder for the cars to meet emissions, resulting in serous performance loss. The modification is easily removed if you know where to look.

Yes a DD is the king countach. But the fi cars can be made to be competive but at a price. But there is only so much you can do which out changing the entire system to a more modern mpfi. The cams are very mild due to the cis system (a lumper cam set up would screw up the sensor plate pulses resulting in really inconsistent fuel flow to the injectors).

Cis is a very limited system to work with when looking for performance gains.

Either way, you guys are lucky to have such an iconic car parked in you garage. Enjoy it and be thankful! I'm jealous.

 

My experience as well, which is the opposite of the uneducated hype you hear about Downdrafts being inconsistent - simply untrue based on @ 6 differnet Downdrafts I've driven.

 

Sometimes that's essential.