Differences in parts between QV FI and QV DD engines?

One percent?

The engine's pistons, cams, injection system, manifolds, headers, exhausts, exhaust valance, front bumpers, rear bumpers, rear safety-panel, front lower spoiler, side-markets etc.

I'd say a bit more that that!

The good point of threads like these is the hue & cry by Fuelie owners that Fuelies are 'practically the same as Downdrafts' has been revealed to be completely untrue - and more to come!

Fuelies are not "the same car just equipped differently" by any stretch of the imagination, in fact, they were an official and dedicated variant, purpose-built from scratch at the Sant Agata factory by Nuova Automobili Lamborghini SpA for the USA. Therefore, they are a Countach variant unto themselves, and are very different from other production Countachs.

Even for the casual observer, they look different, sound different & drive different.

 

Not so sure about the inconsistency of the DD. I don't have a good berometer for those, but each one I have driven are very obviously not tuned correctly. It's very time consuming to get them just right. I spent close to a full week on one (44hrs) just to get the thing to idle right when hot. It's a give and take.

 

Who knows where some of these cars have been, how they have been used, and who tuned them last, but my experience with Downdrafts is, if properly set-up, they are not only potent, but they stay in-tune if operated (started up) correctly and driven regularly. The Fuelies I have driven (4 different cars) all felt quite different in terms of responsiveness and power-delivery, as you say, inconsistent.

 

Chadbourn Bolles
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Lamborghinionly

Agreed that is not a header, it is also not a log manifold. Not sure what you call that but I think you assessment is correct. Usually exhaust with this type of construction have a header underneath. There are a number of odd things about the exhaust you have posted that do not make sense to me. Assuming that was the intended design, my best guess is they were trying to make a thermal reactor style manifold. That would be unusual in that time period. However maybe it was used to improve cold start emissions.

Cheers Jim


Jim, I should have added, getting rid of the FI exhaust and installing a set of real headers, you can expect to pick up 20-40 HP. Now this extra HP would be found in the upper RPM range. Headers or no headers at low RPM there is not much difference in the HP, and I am talking RPM, lets say 1000 - 4000. After 4000 that is when you would see the difference.
Chadbourn Bolles
803 532 6257
803 798 3044 cell
Lamborghinionly

 

You are still sticking to your baloney about the 166 mph being for the fuelie? LOL do you have a specially printed article which doesn't SPECIFICALLY tell you the top speed was for a DD? Even in the pic you posted there is an astric that point to EUROPEAN MODEL.. I quoted you the article word for word where it specifically tells you its the Downdraft.

 

Its actually less expensive to gain significant power with the F/I.. Simply change it to EFI and distributor less ignition.

 

Yes correct, the tested Fulie topped out at 166 mph, and Car & Driver did let on that it was a ""Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection" car, that sounds like a Fuelie to me and others besides http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144416943-post1351.html. Added to that, Ive corroborated this with Aaron Kiley who was there.

Downdrafts tested were all around 180 mph, with the sole example tested with sport cams, improved induction &sport exhaust maxing out at 195 mph.

 

Was there a o-60 nmbr in this test?

 

I think it was @ 5.1

BTW, there is no way Fuelies really have 420 bhp though, and the 166 mph result underscores this, from the driver's seat I'd say more like 390-400, so you need a lot more than the oft-touted "35 bhp" to catch up!

 

Some figures were on a thread a while ago but but from 348 whp a stock FI would be around 408 bhp. A DD from 377 whp would be 440. These cars vary so much it really depends on the car and setup you have. These seem pretty reasonable to me.

 

Get a parts manual, count up the parts that it takes to construct an entire Countach, see how many parts are actually diffeernt.....its good reading

 

Joe,you are really wrong on this one,also very unfair reg your dd and fuelie buddys,on this site. A 0.3 sec to 60 is very much a 35 hp difference, 911/997 s to non s ,30 hp difference is covering this exact distance aprox 3 sec apart,(i have ovned plenty of them) pretty shore most of the Countach ovners here are very aware of this figures,why would they not?they are all car guys wich probably own several brands.this is also numbers based on cars with similar weight, subtract the added weight of the US bumpers, cats,and so on ,then this 0.3 sec difference is totally realistic . my dd nmbrs are taken from Raymonds web site ,Auto motor und sport AND sport auto,wich where The only legitimate test magazine at the time.

 

Why would this engines not performe acc to factory specs,they are identical aluminum castings with identical crankshafts connrods ,heads and so on, a microscopic diff in comp ratio( who knows wich is better with todays fuel) different cam stamp nmbrs,again no info wich is better suited, one is bogged down with terrible exhast and cats,the other is not,one is carbed,(old) one is fi (new) dont we all know better?

 

I think the difference between the Countach QV's are very similar to the F40. There are lots of differences between the USA and euro spec cars, mechanical as well as cosmetic. To most people however they're all F40's. As a buyer I wouldn't really mind if someone removed the cats, suspension, bumpers, etc or vise versa, as long as it was done to factory spec. Granted, like Roy says, they're only original once.

 

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All smiles

 

I agree with you. I was just trying to show the difference between bhp is not that different. With an exhaust like the DD the FI car would have had around 440 like the DD. I don't doubt the cars can make much more power in optimal conditions.

Those figures although low were shown before on another thread.

 

This does not make any sense to me, unless you start with a car that is not running properly. Until you change the airflow there will not be any change in the horsepower potential of the engine. The only thing that will change is what you have to do to get it to run properly.

Cheers Jim

 

It does not make sense to you, because you haven't experienced it. The difference is NIGHT AND DAY.

Dennis yellow CT makes more power to the wheels, then a Diablo does.

 

What modifications were done?

 

Its actually laughable that you try to use an article quoting a top speed of 166mph in an attempt to discredit the F/I model, when in fact you are simply discrediting your own statements for the DD. I suggest you read the articles that you attempt to quote.

I know you like to name drop in order to gain validity to your statements, that doesn't make your statements true. Whether or not you spoke with Aaron means nothing, maybe after 30 years some facts are simply fuzzy, what stays the same is that this Countach had absolutely nothing to do with Ford as you stated.

Your lack of knowledge really shines through when you can state that you believe with sport cams, intake spacers, and a sport muffler, you can add more than 15mph to the top speed of a Countach. You may want to research exactly how much power would be needed to do that. But on the flip side, you completely disregard how much power is gained with the elimination of the an emissions system that strangles a motor.
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Motec FI and distributorless ignition.