Ferrari 0855 Ellena

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by enio45, Sep 23, 2014.

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  1. enio45

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    #201 enio45, Sep 21, 2016
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    I had to do some regressing on the exh today - it just seemed to hang too low, and i found out that I'm using the wrong hangers as well. I had 3 inches of clearance between the top of the muffler and the floor and from the side, it just did not look right. I was using the current version of the exh hangers when i should have been using the center pull type that Parker Hall sells. Coincidentally when going thru the exh hanger box today i unearthed 3 original hangers we took off the car - and bingo they were the center pull type (thanks chris c for the tip) .

    Ordered up 32 new center pull hangers for the exhaust and i believe they also are slightly shorter than the current ones today. So with that, we got new hangers coming, re-weld the tabs on the mufflers and position it accordingly. This will move everything up, give me 3/4 inch clearance at exhaust pipe at the rear frame for clearance and about 1 3/4 inches from the muffler to the floor area. Then we will be finishing up the front header pipe to get a little more bend.

    Lastly i temporarily installed the gas tank, clutch and brake peddle box to make sure we have appropriate clearance around the exhaust, and installed the oil fillers and dip stick on the motor to ensure they fit well thru the headers.
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  2. enio45

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    Those exh tips in post 199 (from el wayne) seem to be extended out about equal to where the bumper guards are protruding.

    Interesting in these pics, this is the 2nd car with rear bumper guards.
     
  3. John Vardanian

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    Ed, you'll need two more hangers for the radiator. Also, I'm pretty sure the fasteners should be B/Ox.

    BTW, is the brake light switch new, if so where did you get it?

    john
     
  4. enio45

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    #204 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
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    John - thanks for thought - BUT, my car get the bracket that goes on the cam cover and the rod to the center of the radiator......keep me honest and keep the thoughts coming.
    IMG_4758.jpg
     
  5. Ed Niles

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    #205 Ed Niles, Sep 22, 2016
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    Here's the only pure side view I could find; Boano, not Ellena. Sorry about the poor quality. One of my earliest purchases: 0605GT. (1961)
    0605GT_250GT Boano (1961-Oct Los Angeles, CA)1 Ed Niles.jpg
     
  6. enio45

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    #206 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
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    This was sent to me ref my car - interesting it was called a Boano but is the correct VIN

    NYTimes Paper May 17, 1967
    unknown.jpg
     
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  8. enio45

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    More info from Ferrari Club of America Bulletin:



    - Delivered new to or first owner was Henry Gibson, New York, NY/USA. (Marcel
    Massini).

    - Offered 1971 in New York at 212-684-1978. Low mileage on rebuild. Paint
    so-so, new upholstery. (NYTimes 14 Feb 1971).

    - Offered 1974 by Mike Curley, Pittsburgh, PA. Very original interior. Body
    has one dent. Engine down for rebuild, gearbox just rebuilt. (FCA Jul
    1974).

    - Identified as 508C/128C single distributor in May 1975.
    - Identified May 1975 as a 250 GT Ellena Coupe.

    - Listed in 1975-1976 FOCUSA Rosters by Bradley E. Balles, San Francisco,
    CA/USA.

    - Listed in 1977-1979 FOCUSA Rosters by Candace Daniels, Mountain View,
    CA/USA.

    - Purchased by Ed Montini, Gilbert AZ from Daniels September, 2014
     
  9. enio45

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    Ed, thanks for the picture, looks like a real nice car....mufflers look to be about at the end of the bumper....
     
  10. enio45

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    #209 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
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    Some interesting thing about my car that I have not been able to piece together - maybe someone can help.

    Ref the car - it had the fenders cut out on the sides for some reason, and the cutouts were done very nice, almost punched out....see pic below.

    Also - my car has a dual brake master cylinder setup, unlike some or most of the Ellena's that i have research and looked at have a single master cylinder.

    The brakes on the car are the vented drums unlike most others that are non-vented.

    I was told, but could never verify there is some race history with the car at Limerock.

    I thought i would share some of this in a effort to see if there is some info/connection that is known or available.

    Most intriguing is the cutouts on the side of the fenders. There was no cover or decorative trim that went with it, nor evidence of it either. Inside the inner fenders also had what seem to be some holes drilled to facilitate cooling.

    Appreciate any thoughts.....
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  11. enio45

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    John V - ref post 203

    The hardware - yes will be black oxide....i need to do that yet, in addition to shaving the head markings off the bolts.

    The brake switch - i sent it out and had it cad plated, fortunately no inside damage and when pressure applied i get continuity. It was an orig switch

    I see the ones today have the spade connectors -

    I might have another if you need one
     
  12. John Vardanian

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    #211 John Vardanian, Sep 22, 2016
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    Ed, thanks. I just got a brake light switch from GTO Engineering, though it has the spade connectors.

    My thoughts on the holes in the wings, if they were fitted originally they would have resembled the ones on the contemporary big sister car, which would have been the Series II 410SA.

    I have seen at least one other Elena with the vented drums--with the six hole pattern.

    john
    1955-Ferrari-410-Superamerica-Pinin-Farina-Coupe-0499SA-drkburgundy-sVr-on-road.jpg
     
  13. PSk

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    Dual brake master cylinders did not come out until the late 60's I believe on any cars.

    This could hint at racing modifications??, especially if split front and rear. Road cars are usually split right front to left rear, and left front to right rear (I believe).
    Pete
     
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  15. enio45

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    Due to the fact that all the brake lines and mountings are orig to the car, the separation of the front to rear brakes via the double master cyl plus the 2 brake resevoir are orig to the
    cas as well I'm pretty sure that the system is orig to the car .

    Yes, this is where I'm going, why the modifications to the body - who did it......where?? I assume the holes on the inner fenders and the fender holes were for cooling for racing.

    Just don't have any proof yet and anyone recognize some of the ads back in the day?
     
  16. 375+

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    Cadillac, AMC and Volvo had dual master cylinders in early 1960's; mandated in US from 1967.
     
  17. enio45

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    this system is one master cyl for the front and one for the back - I'm thinking very typical
    in the 57-58 era for TDF
     
  18. lancia

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    The twin parallel master cylinder set-up is I believe typical of 508B/508C chassis. See the inside-plug parts book, Tavola 24, for illustration. See also the 250GT inside-plug Owner's manual for a split circuit diagram. Note the twin reservoirs. 508D chassis uses a different master cylinder set-up for the drum brakes, but it too is twin circuit. In this case it is a single large unit with tandem pistons in-line, two inlets, two outlets, also fed from twin reservoirs. I believe it likely originates from a FIAT truck system. If you look very closely at a clean, glass-bead blasted original unit, you will find on one of the machined mounting bosses a faint little oval stamping with FIAT.

    Chris
     
  19. enio45

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    I will look for that - the question is why some cars have the system and some don't?

    All the Ellena's so far that i have seen DO NOT have the dual system nor the vented brakes.
     
  20. Fennicus

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    Hi,

    At first I thought you meant only Ferraris with "any cars". Every single 3.8L E-type Jaguar made had dual brake master cylinders from the factory, and they made almost 20.000 of them between 1961 and 1964 and most of them went to North America. It was split between front and rear, so you could adjust the balance.

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  21. PSk

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    Okay my dates are a bit off.


    Fennicus,

    Are you sure about the E-Type Jaguars? I say this because a common issue with the E-Type was overheating the rear brakes due to diff heat and this caused complete loss of brakes.

    I experienced this first hand and watched a once concours E-Type disappear into the distance for a very long time ... thankfully we were racing on an airfield and he had plenty of room to eventually stop the car. Note I do not actually know the reason for this brake failure.
    Pete
    ps: Alfa Romeos (my specialty area of interest) before the S2 1750GTV (such as mine) were single circuit ... the S2 came out in the '70s.
     
  22. Ed Niles

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    1. The dark red car is a 410SA; not relevant.
    2. Bradley Balles is in the Dallas area; I'm sure he'd be delighted to hear from you. A real car guy.
     
  23. enio45

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    Ed, have been in touch with the Bradmundo the Magnificent !!

    One crazy man and yes he has been helpful with the car as well!!
     
  24. El Wayne

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    Ed, I think John's point is that he doubts these fender vents are original. If the car had been originally fitted with fender vents, John feels they would have been done in the style of the 410 SA as opposed to the narrow, vertical, and unadorned design seen here.

    Nonetheless, I agree with you that the 410 SA is irrelevant to this discussion. A) It's highly unlikey 0855 or any of the Ellena-bodied 250 GTs left the Carrozzeria with fender vents, and B) Boano and Ellena implemented styling chages to make these cars less like Pinin Farina's original design. In my opinion, even if Ellena chose to add fender vents to one of his 250 GT coupes (again, unlikely), there's no way he would have borrowed and incorporated a prominant PF design element. Just my humble opinion, of course.
     
  25. Fennicus

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    Hi,

    Yes, I am sure. It is normally not the diff, but the brakes themselves that heat up so much that brake fluid boils in the rear circuit. The factory solved this with air ducts to be fitted in case racing was on the agenda and actually all Series 3 cars (V12) came from the factory with these air ducts to direct cool air to the rear calipers and discs. 3.8's had tandem twin master cylinders and 4.2's had a single brake master cylinder, but with two circuits, as did the later V12's. But only the 3.8 setup would allow you to adjust brake balance between front and rear. On the later ones you'd have to use some other method to control the balance, like Volvo did for the cars (like Amazon and P1800/1800S) where they had discs in the front and drums in the back.

    The most common reason for an E-type or any other IRS Jaguar rear brakes starting to smoke is the rear calipers sticking, usually due to a bad hose between the body and the IRS that allows pressure to build up. Some XJ's have had the trunk floor carpet catch fire due to this same problem. That hose can look ok on the outside but collapse on the inside and function as a "one-way valve." That hose costs ca. £10 GBP so sometimes I have a hard time understanding why someone would want to reuse a hose that "looked ok". :eek:

    Sorry for the side-trekking, we can continue in the "other cars" section if you like, I was just curious to see the similarieties in the hydraulic systems and brake light switch etc, even though the design was from the drum brake era. You have a great looking Ellena in the works, I am sure the process is as rewarding as the end result will be.

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  26. enio45

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    Thank you for the input regarding the fender cutouts etc......would be nice to get more info and history related to who did this while in their custody etc.

    My attempt was only to preserve the originality of the car, if indeed it was done at the factory for some reason..

    Not having any of that info available, as you can see we went with what we know as the original look on the fenders with no mods. I still have the other front end with the cutouts etc, will make for some nice garage art someday.
     
  27. El Wayne

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    Ed, a good thing about those unique fender vents is that they'll help us to identify 0855 in period photos. When I get a chance, I'll go through all of my unidentified Ellena pics and see if I have any showing a car with vents like these.
     
  28. enio45

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    Yes, I have pictures from when Brad Balles picked up the car from Curley and it had the cutouts in them as well. So that was 1974-5, so earlier than that they were installed.

    Believe me, whoever did them, the cut outs were done beautifully, very nicely finished in and out, square and accurate.. Almost punched out.
     
  29. enio45

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    #227 enio45, Sep 24, 2016
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    Pics from May, 1976 - compliments of Brad Balles
    Ellena2.jpg
    Ellena 1.jpg
     
  30. El Wayne

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    Yes, it appears some thought went into these; they're purposeful, well-executed, and have very little visual impact on the overall design. By the way, those outside-laced front wheels and removal of the bumpers also suggest track/competition use.
     
  31. John Vardanian

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    Ed, is there evidence of a grill of sorts to dress the cutouts?

    john
     
  32. tx246

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    Are you sure the cut outs weren't simply a mechanism to bungee the hood down. ��
     
  33. enio45

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    John, none at all - just a cutout in the fender - assumed to let air out. That hole corresponds with the small round holes on the inner fenders.

    Shawn - never thought of it that way......but it did not work too well - because Bradmundo when towing it backward, the hold did flip up and bent the heck out of it when he towed it to his house from denver.
     
  34. 246tasman

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    Hi Wayne

    I'm curious as to why you think outer laced wheels suggest track use.

    Will
     
  35. enio45

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    #233 enio45, Sep 25, 2016
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    what is meant by outside laced front wheels?

    relooking at the pics, now i see the difference - so why is that?

    ill have to look at my wheels i got with the car to see if one of them is that way??
     
  36. El Wayne

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    #234 El Wayne, Sep 25, 2016
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    We've discussed the benefits of outer-laced front wheels in competitive driving (real or perceived) before, but regardless of modern opinion one way or another, in the late 1950s and 1960s, sporting outer-laced front wheels on your road-going Ferrari was a sign you meant business.

    It's a bit of a misnomer, I suppose, as these wheels were actually laced to the center or inner rim as well as to the outer rim. The outer lacing was for added strength, and with Ferraris, these wheels were most often reserved for use in competitive driving where heavy lateral loads would be placed on the front wheels during cornering.

    The standard road-going 250 wheels were laced to the center or inner rim only, leaving a polished outer lip. This gave the road cars an elegant appearance and rendered the wheels easier to keep clean. By comparison, the outer-laced wheels had more of a "business" look, but were also a pain in the ass to keep free of brake dust, road grime, etc.
    OL - 1.jpg
     
  37. tx246

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    So, you are saying that if he put the car on the trailer properly, it would have worked properly?

    Just having fun!

    Shawn
     
  38. enio45

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    Yes that is exactly what I'm saying!!
     
  39. tx246

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    Problem solved!!!!!

    Regardless of that, I think an item like this is a super cool mystery, but one that opens the doors to history.

    Hopefully, we will uncover more.

    Shawn
     
  40. El Wayne

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    #238 El Wayne, Sep 27, 2016
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    As promised in the Chinetti Motors thread:
    0855gt - FCA News Bulletin - July 1974 - 1.jpg
    0855gt - FCA News Bulletin - July 1974 - 2a.jpg
     
  41. enio45

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    Wow. This is great!! Thank you
     
  42. El Wayne

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    No problem, Ed. I can send you the hi-res versions as well. Do you want them to go to your F-Chat registered email address?
     
  43. enio45

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    Yes thank you , Ill put this with the other
    Ads in my restoration book we are making for the car

    This seems date wise to be @ when the car sold to brad
     
  44. El Wayne

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    #242 El Wayne, Sep 27, 2016
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    I'm certain that's precisely what it is - ad placed by Mike Curly and car subsequently sold to Brad Balles.

    There was also an ad in the February 14, 1971 edition of the New York Times (currently available for viewing via the NYT online archive). I assume you've seen this one?
    0855gt - NY Times - February 14, 1971 - 1.jpg
     
  45. enio45

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    I don't think i have this one........???
     
  46. Ed Niles

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    #244 Ed Niles, Sep 27, 2016
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    Since his name has come up, here's Bradley Balles with his (then) TdF 0629GT.
    250GT TdF (1980s California, USA)2 Ed Niles.jpg
     
  47. El Wayne

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    On it's way!
     
  48. El Wayne

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    #246 El Wayne, Sep 27, 2016
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    1957, 1983, and 2016 - very different times.
    0629gt - 1957 Tour de France - 1.jpg
    250GT TdF (1980s California, USA)2 Ed Niles.jpg
    0629gt - 1.jpg
     
  49. El Wayne

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    By the way, I'm always amazed at how owners can go to great effort and expense to replicate the appearance of a car in-period and then get simple details wrong - like the size of the decal on the boot lid and the color of the rubber on the bumpers.
     
  50. enio45

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    Looking thru these ads, I'm amazed (and lucky) that the Ellena car was consistently advertised with its VIN. Other ads, like the Chinetti ad, has no ref to car vin's.
     
  51. John Vardanian

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    If it was restored across the pond, that might explain.

    john
     
  52. PSk

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    Yeah no American restoration has made a mistake ... ;)

    Pete
     

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