How is your P4 knowledge?

As both 0858 and 0856 were shipped why? If Jay's right Ferrari switched both chassis plates and engines. I wonder what the # on 0856's steering rack is today?

 

Ask Lawrence... I think the car was driving around Tremblant lately...

 

By no means definitive, but if you look at the photo, both #20 and #21, while undergoing service and largely intact, while car #19 in the background is missing rear suspension and pipes the removal of which is necessary for an engine swap. It would also appear that the horizontal vents at the front of the rear wheel are different on 0860 (I cannot tell this for certain, perhaps Jim knows) and the vents of the car about to receive the engine in the swap photo also seem to match that of car #19. four vents vs five on the others.

 

I would be inclined to agree with you. Note the position of the anvil on a wooden base (crate ?) between the #21 and #19 cars.

 

OK I'm confused. I thought the P4 engines were numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. not stamped with a chassis no.? So how did the scrutineer fill in the engine no. that matched the chassis no.? Maybe he just assumed that the engine and chassis no. matched?
Nathan

 

Some have also even been very fortunate in having had the opportunity to study their contents, recently.
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The engines are stamped with the chassis # as well as "Internal #'s and the N 1,2,3 you speak of. The Scrutineer definitely noted Motor # as being stamped 0856 and I've seen 0856 stamped on the motor that's in 0856 today. I've also seen 0858 stamped on 0858's motor (Photo) and 0854 stamped on 0854's motor. I believe David recently sold one of his 0822 motors to be reunited with 0822 and it's stamped 0822.

I'm sure Paul has some photo's and I'll find some as well.

Cheers

 

Here are a few.
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Sorry, Jim but I don’t appear to have any on file ….

…. and I think I ought to 'correct' you on your possibly misleading choice of photos.
Neither of those first two you've posted are actually parts of 0856’s engine per sé, but of sheet metalwork in the engine compartment:

The top one is of the brake / engine cold air duct from the back of the door scoop, and
The middle one is of the cold air box fitted around one of the bank of injection trumpets.

 

by any chance did you look up the lemans page??

 

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply it was myself, personally.

In fact, I asked the fortunate person, who had access, to check on the Daytona 24 Hour records for me.

 

True but the engine is stamped 0856 as are these other parts. These are from ultimate car page. I will look tonight for engine stamps but if they contain internal #'s I can't post them. The book you posted should have engine stampings no??

Retired what are your thoughts on engine stampings? chassis # was stamped on engines as well no?

 

Still not managed to find any of #0856, unfortunately, but here's a few of 412P #0850 (first two copyright Scott Schwartz ©):
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Jim

I called the Factory and had them look up the info. on Lemans. Here is the result. as per factory records.


0860 - n° 19 Sefac
0846 - n° 20 Sefac
0856 - n° 21 Sefac
0858 - n° 24 Franco Champs

Interesting, yes??.

 

Hey

Very. The Le Mans Scrutinising Records definitely disagree as do many books but as you know a lot that is believed is wrong.

That said I still have a problem with the ACO documents clearly listing the 24 car's motor as 0856. We know the 412P motors were stamped with chassis numbers and I think I remember seeing 0856 stamped on LS's P4 motor at the Pebble/FCA. I also think I remember seeing 0858 stamped on WM 350 Cam Am when it was almost auctioned off and I remember a photo of that stamping on the irs web site but there does seem to be a discrepancy between Ferrari's records and the ACO's. Jay thinks the chassis plates were switched and the ACO records reflect that and 0856 was really 0858 but what about the motor #???

Best

 

Jim
I have seen several cases when the Le Mans scrutineering actually took place IN ITALY (right at the factory in Maranello), a few days or even weeks before the Le Mans 24 hours, by the Italian CSAI engineers and scrutineers, for example Mr. Enrico Turri of Milan or Engineer Da Rue. This leaves room that numbers were switched on both cars and paperwork, before the actual race in France.
Marcel Massini

 

Hi

Interesting. I will check the name of the official on the documents but I think the hand written notes are in French.

But what about the Motor #?? Is 0860 stamped on 0860's motor? I really think 0858 is stamped on 0858's motor as I remember finding that interesting as it's now 350 and I wonder if it was the bored out motor 0858 raced with as a P4. What about 0856 is that stamped on it's motor?

Best

I also have a photo taken by Lee Holman is the pits in 67 that shows the Yellow Stripped car going through Scrutinising At Le Mans.

 

Let me clear this. What I meant to say is that some cars were clearly pre-scrutineered in Modena (by the Italian CSAI engineers). Later, upon arrival in France, they were most probably looked at again but possibly in less detail. I didn't say there was NO scrutineering in Le Mans.
Marcel Massini

 

Makes sense but I sill can't get around motor listed as 0856 on race # 24.

Best

 

Is that a seatbelt anchored to the engine in 0850? Did all P4's have that? It looks like a pretty tiny bolt - I don't know if I would trust that with the shear forces seen in a 200 mph accident.

Peter

 

Unlike a MK-IV if you hit hard in a P it will be like what Enzo told my friend:

"You collect the parts and I'll call his mother."

 

I have a couple of questions:

1. In the picture of the engine hanging from the stick; why are the trumpets facing inward vs. outward?

2. Swapping the numbers between two cars for caranet purposes does not make sense since both cars are at the event and therefore BOTH must be traveling under caranet. Have I missed something here? Is there anything within the LeMans rules that might necessitate a numbers swap?

Thanks,

Art S.

 

1. So they don't snag something when you're dropping it in. They're easy to rotate.

2. Duh...

 

Art.
They've just been turned inwards (by slackening off the bolts on the throttle slides) to preclude damage during lifting.

Edit: Just beat me to it, Jim ! LOL !!

 

Glad to see we still have opposite views.

Dropping in/Pulling out