How will history judge and value the F12 vs. 812 super fast?

If you are like me, buying a car to drive on a regular basis, the timeless modern classic factor isn't the top priority

I'm going to pile on the miles. And second I dont have time to wait years for that once in a lifetime perfect car. Just look at FChat and you will see that Ferrari hasn't made a modern classic since 1960..

If the 812 is reliable, and drives superfast, better than my 458, that's all I want and need.

 

That seems assured. It's going to be stiff, yet the 458 is also.

 

I am probably in the minority but I really don't like "aggressive" styling. To me it smacks of turbo charged Japanese sedans, evo this and evo that. Big wings and gaping holes.
Its just thuggish and base. I'm not saying everything should be svelte and feminine (1960s Lusso) and I'm very good with purposeful (288 GTO, F12). Its a bit like being deadly at martial arts, you don't need to shout about it.

 

I think Caeruleus11's 275 / Daytona comparison has merit. We own an F12 and attended the January unveiling of the 812. Both cars are gorgeous in person, at least to my eyes, and yes, the 812 looks more modern as you'd expect.

Although I haven't driven the 812, I have driven the GTC4 Lusso and it's a markedly better handling car than our FF which I love. The RWS is transformative. Just when you think Ferrari has made the perfect car, they make a better one.

We're visiting Maranello next month to spec the 812 via TM. It will join our TM F12. I hope to keep both for the long term, because they are equally amazing and desirable. The F12 is the last in a multi-decade line of Pininfarina-penned front engined V12 GT's, and really does seem like the spiritual successor to the 275 GTB. The 812 may very well be the last NA V12 made by Ferrari, and it may also have a shorter life cycle due to regulatory headwinds. It's also the first front-engined V12 two-seater to be designed entirely in-house and has incredible aerodynamic advances as a result. If you believe the pundits, it sounds even better than the already glorious F12.

As a kid, I never dreamed that we'd have access to cars this great. I'm glad to be here.

 

Below there are four sets of pictures. In the first set with the cars profiles the yellow F12B was rendered on top of the scenery where the original picture of the 812 was taken, therefore it might look a bit artificial. The photos on the sets with the red cars are some of the best available around and were taken from similar angles with the cars in motion. That way we get a better idea how they really look on the flesh and make justice to both models.

The intention of this post isn't to denigrate one model in favor of the other but uniquely a modest contribution to help to visualize some of the differences between the two cars.
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812 rear end is taller and wider. F12 fastback slope more beautiful.

Plus ... 4 lights on a modern car makes 0 design sense. There is plenty of tech logic to make 2 do everything. Combining one historical touch on a very aggressive look on a modern machine is just stupid.

 

They are both beautiful in different ways which is, of course, the point. They sold every F12 they cared to make and could easily have sold more. They will sell an equal number of 812s or more should they wish to do so. Not sure what all the angst is about. I love the four lights by the way. They are both works of art. Brian, we all know by now that you are going to cling to your FF until your final breath ... Good for you. These cars don't melt after a few years or a few thousand miles. As it clearly makes you happy, take care of her and drive her into dust. There are many things in life that are stupid. An artistic expression that doesn't suit your taste isn't really one of them.


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The F12 is much more aestethically pleasing. To my eyes it has its flaws but it has a clean design with better proportions, the lines flow through the car and it's closer to the universal idea of beauty.

The 812 is simply one of the ugliest Ferrari ever made. Way too busy like they are trying too hard. Lack of visual balance between the different parts of the car.

For me, parting ways with PF is gonna be of the biggest mistakes in the history of Ferrari.

 

Thanks Mario...brilliant work!
To me the F12 is the more enduring and elegant design, the 812 more "slave to fashion."
Both are equally stupid-fast.

 

Having ordered a 812, just hope I can live with the rear by the time it arrives! The first all new model often ends up being the best design over the long run. Tinkering generally makes it worse. Extreme example is testarossa vs 512M but even the 308 vs 328, also 550 vs 575, and to some eyes FF vs Lusso.

 

I think Barry K probably has it - it will be about the production numbers to a large degree. But, I will say, though I prefer the 812, which to me looks more muscular and taught, the appearance of the two cars is similar enough that whichever car gives the best n/a V12 driving experience will carry it. And if a better one comes along, produced in similar numbers, that will probably stand better again. I also reckon the single or double headlamp arbiter of all known taste in the free world has gone fishing for herring, and caught a red one.

As a recent 488 spider owner, I suspect that my logic will also work here, favouring the 458 longer term. It is perhaps marginally the prettier car, though the 488 is again very muscular and some may justifiably prefer it. But the lack of turbos, despite the towering achievement and better drivability of the 3.9 TT engine, will likely see the 458 ahead IMO.

An alternate view is that if turbo motors keep improving, future owners (yes, those millennials again...) may just think the n/a cars are simply flat midrange and lose interest.

 

Turbo point is well made, recognising the provenance etc of NA and higher engineering demands for the power my LT with high boost was more fun and exciting. The 488s superior turbo installation I think made it less exciting than LT.

 

I predict that some will like the F12 better and others will like the 812.. Currently I can not get comfortable with the looks of the 812. I spent sometime looking at an actual 812 .. and just could not get comfortable maybe the right color or the right options . I remember the first pictures of the F12 I was not in love with some angles but the first time I saw it in person I loved it .. not so with the 812......
SO for me right now I like the F12 and think history will be kind to it.... Not so sure about the 812 its like they through every thing at ...
I think of the 2 the F12 TDF is the best looking but that is not the topic...

 

The F12 is much more beautiful, last of Pininfarina, and it shows.

 

agreed

 

same gut feeling here - probably personal bias, but prefer the FF/F12 design language to the successors and the technological advancement will be less relevant in the future / once they have been succeded by whatever comes next

 

All the love for the F12B and FF is because of the fact Ferrari dumped PF. Both those cars been around for sometime and people got used to them and that turned to love for the designs. If you recall people had issues with FF as well initially and the F12 rear too but time went on and people accepted it. Same thing here the 812 is not even out yet and I'm surprised people already bashing it. I understand looks are subjective but give the Lusso and 812 sometime to mature in its own and have the opportunity to own both past and present models before passing on a judgment. As a former F12 owner and looking at the 812 recently in flesh I have to say Ferrari has stepped up its game but again everyone has a right to their own opinion - all I say is be fair and give these models a chance for people to either love or hate after a few years.

 

Agreed. You really have to wait to judge. But I would never take the FF > GTC4. I much much prefer the GTC4. I still prefer the F12b>812 but I think they've done a remarkable job of taking the same hard points as the F12b and making a car that has quite a different look.

 

The 'yellow car' pictures by MDEL are really illustrative. Lines are much more beautiful on the F12. The front of the 812 looks like a Corvette and the back-eehh I don't know what that looks like-not very pretty though.

Jim

 

Well said

 

Or maybe a bunch of ambitious designers with no pedigree are not as good as a decades old company who has done the deed over and over?

Plus ... not exactly dumped. More like slowly slithered away, using the PF name as they went. From "they advised us" to "we don't need them". Discounting one of the greatest partnerships in automotive history.

 

When I visited the factory last month I was told almost all the PF people were hired by Ferrari, if so am I missing something re this sea change ? Non event ?

 

Really - first I've heard that. If that's the case, Mahindra bought some office furniture and old trophies only....

Even if they are there, the results seem so different post-PF. Manzoni is ex-VW, and very different style, to put it politely.

Not that everything pf was great e.g F50 was a flunk, but the style was always there.

 

I doubt that 100%. Maybe a couple people have come over yet PF still has their people in place. And even if they hired EVERYONE ... they have a new boss and they are no longer drawing like PF. So yea, you are missing something ... the ability to see design cues from PF.

 

Spot on…..