i lost my self-confidence, | Page 4 | FerrariChat

i lost my self-confidence,

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by 24000rpm, Sep 3, 2016.

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  1. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    So confident, and yet not accurate : ) Skippy confirmed this was mechanical and gave him a makeup.

    What do you think happens to the front brakes when a rear CV fails catastrophically?

    ...and no, I've never seen an experienced racer lock all 4 wheels at the *start* of a braking zone and not get them unlocked again except in the case of mechanical failure.


    EDIT - and you can even hear the CV explode/lock at the 8 second mark.
     
  2. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Sure. Mechnanicals happen, too.

    What's your point? Your incidents are due to mechanical failure?

    CW
     
  3. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Does this help? (below) ...and the video is not me, but yes everyone in the race series has many mechanical failures. I was lucky enough not to hit anything despite losing my brakes on multiple occasions due to multiple issues at multiple tracks.

    Speaking to many accomplished instructors and drivers, most have typically lost their brakes 1-3 times in ~20-30 years of racing. I reached that in partial season with Skippy.

    That's what you get with a fleet of 16 year old race cars that are not being proactively maintained.

     
  4. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Do whatever it is you want to do. Good luck.

    CW
     
  5. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Same to you!
     
  6. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    Drive smoooooth n safe mate .good luck.
     
  7. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
    4,186
    Cheshire
    1. Get a slower car
    2. Get a proper instructor
    3. Do loads and loads of laps.
    4. Repeat step 3 until it is boring...
    5. Once you have mastered going quick in a slow car, get the 360C out of the garage and take it for a drive. Start a bit slower and build up pace.
    6. Enjoy a lifetime of safe fun.
     
  8. dennis macchio

    Jan 28, 2016
    8
    pennsylvania
    Full Name:
    dennis macchio
    We will straighten out your head at The Bertil Roos Racing School.........usual stuff, but heavy emphasis on sports psychology as it relates to motorsports.........ask around

    Dennis
     
  9. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

    Feb 27, 2005
    1,284
    Congested London
    Full Name:
    Beau
    This is an interesting scenario. Whilst I do not know your experience there is a stark contrast between digital cars and analogue. The migration from one to the other is not necessarily easy. Talented drivers and instructors like ProCoach on this board should be able to help greatly. The latest batch of cars have got so much quicker, and yet human reaction time remains constant. This is a theme, I believe, that manufacturers have forgotten about.
     
  10. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    2,128
    UK
    my recommendation is get a base model lotus Elise and learn with that, you won't regret it imo.
     
  11. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    484
    NYC/CT
    Low hp car, no traction or stability control systems and street (or more progressive race) tires. Learn to extract all of the performance out of this slower package and then move on to faster stuff. You are like a wanna-be pilot who's determined to start with a fighter jet. It just doesn't work that way...
     
  12. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,464
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    +1,000!
     
  13. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    You can hear the rear CV pop in the video Peter...then the wheels lock.
     
  14. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,464
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    I responded to the observation that threshold braking is a fundamental skill.

    I did not watch the video. Did not mean to confirm linkage with the video before watching it or to suggest anything else.
     
  15. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    For the record, I've never had a mechanical at Skippy. And, I'd wager that thousands of laps are driven each year there without one. But, do they happen? Sure, they do. They can even happen in your own car that you're over-seeing the maintenance on. One mechanical, however, does not indict the safety record of an entire organization, if what you're suggesting is that it's somehow dangerous to get into a Skippy car because they're older, worn-out or under-maintained. I do not believe Skippy operates or maintains their cars unsafely.

    CW
     
  16. HH11

    HH11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 4, 2010
    3,317
    +1 to the above.

    and......You need to slow down. Mentally and on the track. You are driving a professional race car. I'm aware you've mentioned you track it quite often, but that doesn't mean you're getting better at it with more seat time. Like many things, you must learn from each experience behind the wheel, not just repeat what you did the prior session.

    It's easy to "feel" like a Pro when driving something like a 360C. The fact is you aren't a Pro.

    With the proper instruction and mindset you'll be able to get back into the 360 soon enough and hopefully do much better.
    ----------------
    I've seen these types of situations with close friends of mine at the Porsche events. Buddy buys a 991 GT3 and gets passed by a Boxster (short circuit, short straights) . Wonders how this is possible. Will get angry because his car has almost 2x the power....it doesn't matter.

    A Spec Miata session will also humble you :)

    Wishing you the best of luck from here on out. Focus, stick to a plan, and enjoy.

    Also glad you haven't been hurt as a result.
     
  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,370
    Texas!
    I just wish Skippy would stop spamming me with THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE EVER! THIS DEAL ENDS TODAY. Then a couple days later, THIS IS YOUR....
     
  18. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    15,055
    ny
    this!
    just SLOW DOWN is the most important advice. a double decker tour bus loaded with passengers can make it through the nurburgring without crashing simply because it is driven at proper pace.
     
  19. leopard881

    leopard881 Karting

    May 11, 2014
    222
    Full Name:
    David
    Hi 24000rpm
    I'm interested in the history of your 360CH car - might you tell us more about its earlier days as well as its VIN?
    best regards David
     
  20. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gotcha.

    And I agree! I just had my last lockup about 2 hours ago. ; )
     
  21. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    That's exactly what I'm saying.

    ...and I respect your right to disagree.
     
  22. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    I think, if you're going to make a claim like that, you need to do more than use an opinion to suggest that their cars are somehow under-maintained or unsafe. Please substantiate that. Any statistics to back you up? For example, the number of "mechanical incidents" per mile driven in one of Skippy's cars. Some other statistic?

    Automobile racing involves equipment that's subject to wear and tear and stresses. Therefore, there is an inherent risk of a mechanical failure. I'll bet that EVERY racing school or operation has mechanicals. However, can you statistically validate your opinion that there's something problematic at Skippy?

    CW
     
  23. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
    1,250
    FL
    #98 Ky1e, Oct 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
    Singletracks Skippy car was having brake issues (I believe excessive pad knockback), he complained, and the instructor that took his car for a spin went head-on into The Wall in Turn 1 at Road Atlanta due to brake failure, breaking his back and was in the hospital for a long time. Sounds like he has very good firsthand experience with a massive near death accident in a Skippy car and has good reason to question their safety.... but I'll let him tell his story.
     
  24. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    If we're talking about RB, I'll be happy to talk with him directly about what happened. However, I still maintain that one bad incident is not out of line or unreasonable, statistically, given the amount of miles driven. There's a within tolerance failure rate. It's just going to happen. Obviously, you hope you're not the guy sitting in the car, when it does, though.

    But, even new cars and freshly-rebuilt cars can have mechanicals. I've had a brand new connecting rod bolt fail in a freshly re-built engine. The manufacturer must have fab'd a bad batch. Or, the builder over-tightened it. Or, maybe something else. But, it happens. For all the intense scrutiny an F1 car gets between races, they STILL have mechanical issues (sure, they're VERY complex machines, but they are very best cost-no-object maintained cars I can think of and are probably over-maintained). So, unless you're completely tearing down each car after each session, you're probably not going to spot a something before it fails. I'm sure the cars are on an inspection schedule, and there are visual inspections daily by the mechanics, too.

    So, I just don't think, statistically, there's anything out of line with Skippy's cars' failure rates. I did a quick search, and I could find only ONE complaint (on Yelp, IIRC) that talked about under-maintained equipment. So, let's try to put these failures (and resulting crashes) into context. And, while singletrack may have had a bad experience with his car, that also has to be put into context. How many other cars had mechanical failures that weekend? How many laps were driven without failure throughout the weekend? Bad luck is more likely the culprit than are unsafe maintenance practices. But, I'll talk with RB.

    Even so, unless the OP's car is immune from mechanical failures, he's still at risk when he drives it.

    CW
     
  25. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    No I really don't. I lived it for a while, observed, experienced, and ultimately decided that the safety of the RT cars was not up to a reasonable standard.

    But since you asked, I think a compelling statistic is two fractured backs in less than 12 months - 1 test driver and 1 young racer. Both catastrophic brake failures. During the weekend of the second incident, another young racer also suffered catastrophic brake failure and was launched off a dirt mound but luckily walked away. In the 12 months prior to that there were two more that I know of personally - one at Laguna and one at VIR. Both high speed collisions with minor hand injuries - luckily....And we're barely scratching the surface. I had a fellow racer who had 3 half shafts drop out in 6 races. Just think about how ridiculous that is alone...

    Yes everyone has mechanicals. What you have to ask yourself is what kind are they? Could they be prevented? How are the cars maintained? Are the parts that are failing items that have a definitive usable life before replacement/reconditioning? ...and whatever other questions help you assess the risk and safety. Honestly, you can just do a walk-around on an RT car these days and it will tell you a lot just by looking at it.
     

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