Kev Hedges of Hedges Wealth Management

Discussion in 'North & South Carolina' started by Europeanroadandracing, Oct 19, 2011.

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  1. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,120
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    I think it is important for me to share the following information.
    I have been taking care of cars for Kevin Hedges for about 5 years and for the most part has been a great experience and relationship.
    In January of this year I worked on one of his cars and took care of some issues the vehicle had, incl. a complimentary oil and filter service to say thanks for referring another client some time earlier.
    He picked his car up on Friday, Jan. 14th, late in the afternoon (he got dropped off and his ride had already left) paid a small portion of his bill and asked if he could take care of the (quite significant) balance on monday as he needed to shift some funds. Many emails with excuse after excuse followed over the next few months until I never heard from him again.
    Today is October 19th and I am still waiting for that monday to arrive.
    It is my understanding that his car was sold at auction and now belongs to someone very far away.
    I just thought it would be important to know that if anyone was considering his services, they may want to reconsider as a lot of trust has to be put into an individual that "manages" your wealth and I would think before that individual can perform that task they need to manage their own first.

    Karl Troy
    Just don't want anybody else to get burnt.
     
  2. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Rookie
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    Jul 2, 2006
    4,921
    Sorry to hear about that, Karl. Do you have any legal recourse? As I'm sure you know, his (very "boilerplate") website shows an address in Mt. Pleasant.

    I know that there are some shady people in the "wealth management" business. This guy would be one to steer clear of, for sure.
     
  3. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
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    Darn, Karl, I guess I should get a free belt service lol! Really though, I think we all refer folks to the person we trust most, and believe is the most honest, fair, and quite frankly good at what they do. Did he specifically ask for the free oil change? I've never done that for my referrals of friends. I just want them to get the best.

    How long ago was it that this happened? Did anyone ever check out his car after you did the work? What was the major complaint? Really sorry to hear about this experience. I had RamJack just secure the foundation on my bay window, a home I am about to put on the market, and they did a crap job. I paid them all but $300, and I bet I will have to have someone come out and redo the grout, but I'll give them a chance to redo it if they offer.

    We need a way to vet people we do business with, such as RamJack. Right now I could not recommend them to anyone. And it hurts those who refer bad services. I don't think I will give my listing to the agent who recommended them. Just the way it is.
     
  4. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,120
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    I was just contacted by Mr. Hedges a short while ago, first time since March, in hopes to have this matter resolved soon and would be delighted to make this post a positive one.
     
  5. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
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    Good! Your power extends further than you think. <grin> Good luck.
     
  6. forgeahead

    forgeahead F1 Rookie
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    Sep 16, 2008
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    I have met him Kevin at one of the FCA events. He seemed like a nice enough guy. I discussed some financial planning with him at the time. He has recently been calling quite a bit leaving messages for me. I have pondered having him take care of some things regarding investments. Perhaps he has come into some financial woes. At least he should have called the OP and been up front with him. I will reconsider doing business with him.
     
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  8. kevinhedges

    kevinhedges Rookie

    Apr 21, 2008
    1
    Charleston SC
    Full Name:
    Kevin N. Hedges
    Dear Karl,

    It has come to our attention that you have posted a private matter, between us and your firm, European Road & Racing on Ferrari Chat.

    Let me make this entirely clear for you, so that there is no misunderstanding at all, whatsoever.

    1) The reason that we have not paid the balance is because the work you did on my car was unacceptable. You kept the car for over 1month for an oil change. I also let you use the car, as a convenience, when you asked me. When I picked up the car, the car was not fixed. The MPG had decreased considerably, and the total bill for the car was well in excess of my expectations, despite my repeated requests for the total price. Hence, one cannot pay for work that was completed, and subsequently created more car problems. It should have been fixed and checked before I picked up the car. I clearly remember you also saying that your firm was struggling somewhat, which is a shame. Naturally, I am unimpressed. I have sent previous correspondence letting you know, of which I have a copy.

    2) You must remove the post on Ferrari Chat immediately. It is unprofessional, slanderous, and a private matter.

    3) If you do not remove the post, and make a formal apology, I will be sure to take legal action for such comments on a private matter. I will also to tell everyone in the Ferrari Club, Porsche Club, British Car Club, et al, about the bad experience we have had with you and your firm and that you are deliberately trying to hurt our company, and our reputation which are certainly non-correlated. It is unjust. In general, your firm as been good, but this was not one of those times.

    4) With regards to our firm, yes, there are awful ‘wealth management’ firms out there, but we are certainly not one of them. We have a dedicated core focus on low risk, transparency & fiduciary interest. Our credentials include Wharton Business School, currently studying the CFA exam, and being licensed by the SEC / FINRA. Confidential (client permitted) references available upon request.

    In the essence of reaching an agreement so that you are not hung out to dry on the cost of whatever you spent on fixing my car this year Karl, and in the essence of gentlemanly conduct, I am prepared to give you a small amount of the balance that will cover parts, but not labor. I think this is more than fair given the factual information above.

    May I wish you the best for the remainder of this year Karl. Good luck with getting your firm back in track.

    Yours sincerely,

    Kevin Hedges
     
  9. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,957
    Charleston, SC
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    Gil
    I have no knowledge of the issues between Karl and Kevin. As such, I will not comment on them...however, if Karl's "firm" is struggling, we should all struggle so much. The country would be much better if we all "struggled" like Karl's shop. I have never seen more vehicles in his shop as I do now when I drive by, or on occasion when I bring my 308 to him. I say on occasion since I drive my 308 about a mile 40 miles a year...that's to and from Karl's shop.

    We can't please everyone...Karl knows that. But to suggest Karl's shop is struggling is simply ridiculous.

    Karl has many devoted clients and friends who would be willing to speak up on his behalf, myself included. Again, I have no knowledge of the matter for which this thread was started...but I trust Karl completely. Kevin's claims are the kind I have NEVER heard about Karl. And they certainly will not keep me or other clients away.

    Karl, sorry you are having these issues. Kevin, sorry you were not pleased with Karl's service. You are in a very small percentile...in fact, you may be the only percentile.

    NOTE: I have not been paid by either party for my comments...yet :D
     
  10. Dincenzo

    Dincenzo Formula 3
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    Oct 11, 2005
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    Wow! I talk to Karl often, and his business is better than ever. Take a look at the pictures on his Facebook page. He has more cars than most dealerships. I really can't see how his business could be doing so poorly, unless he has a lot of deadbeats that won't pay their bills! Oh well, the truth shall prevail. I just hope that reputations aren't destroyed.
     
  11. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Gil
    +1 ... I am confident that Karl's reputation will not be harmed.

    Funny you mentioned that he has more cars than most dealerships. I think a customer recently chose Karl over the dealership for repairs due to price and quality of work. I think it was an Aston Martin, but I'm not sure...those non-Ferraris all look alike to me ;)
     
  12. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Gil
    I'm no lawyer, but I think slander refers to the spoken word. I believe you meant libel, right? Anyway, how can you accuse Karl of slander/libel and than do the same thing? You claim his work was substandard and that his business is not doing well (I believe this to be a fabrication on your part, but I don't have the fact...that's why I said "believe").

    Seems you are playing tit-for-tat. Had you just said Karl is wrong without taking shots at him, your post would have had more credibility. Don't get me wrong, if I felt I was being attacked, I might do the same thing.

    Oh, who am I kidding...I don't think you have ANY credibility. You chose to talk about an individual who is well respected here on FChat and in the Ferrari community at large (all exotics actually).

    NOTE: If it appears that I am taking sides, I want to make sure that everyone knows that, in fact, I AM!!! But it pains me... :)
     
  13. chipbiii

    chipbiii F1 Rookie
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    Mar 26, 2008
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    I'm currently in pain from that cheeseburger I just had but I'm on Karl's side too!
     
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  15. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,957
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    Gil
    But was it worth it???
     
  16. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,120
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    I am all for sticking to the facts and making things clear.
    You left your Porsche 911 with me for a month or more because you were out of town and weren't in any rush.
    -Your car received and oil and filter change.
    -Your car blew smoke every time it was started cold due to a bad oil separator.
    -Oil getting sucked into the intake also damaged the airmass meter.
    -Had to replace the battery as I had to jump it every time I moved it in and out of the shop.
    The "OEM oilseparator" portion, parts and labor was $444.80. Our local dealer charges $1500.- for the same job.

    One saturday I happened to be working on my car and it was in pieces. I needed to get a small item from a parts store a couple of miles away. I called you and asked if I may drive your vehicle to do so. You promptly agreed.
    As you can see, something as simple as driving a client's car for anything other than fixing it, I treat with utmost respect.

    I kept you updated on what I had to do to the car. You NEVER said, OK but how much? Just OK.
    You agreed with what I needed to do. Many of my clients do that so I am used to it when they don't ask for a price. They know that I treat their money as if it was mine.
    Yes, you sent me an email earlier on friday asking what the total was but I had not yet put the bill together. Being that friday is our busiest day and many cars have to go home, I am sorry if I couldn't get back to you as quickly as you had hoped. I don't have much time for email when I am working in the shop.
    Very shortly before closing on friday Jan. 14 you were dropped off at the shop and your ride left. I gave you the bill and you were blown away by the amount of $1376.-
    which included a
    -New battery ( no labor charge)
    -New oil separator
    -New airmass meter
    -Oil and filter (no labor charge)
    I charged you a total of $425.- labor, the rest was parts and sales tax.
    You told me you weren't expecting this, paid $400.- (as that was all you had) and needed to move some funds and asked to pay the balance on monday, Jan. 17th. I was not happy but agreed as you had no way home.
    I had contacted you several times about payment and you said you were busy.
    On Feb. 14th I received an email from you asking if 238 miles was good or bad mileage out of a tank of fuel. I told you it depended on many variables.
    From then on you kept telling me the car wasn't fixed and you shouldn't have to pay for something that wasn't fixed. I told you several times in email form to bring the car by and if anything needed to be corrected I would gladly do so. Again, you said you would but were just too busy.
    March 23rd was the last time I heard from you. You stated that as soon as you could free up some time you'd come see me.
    THAT WAS 7 MONTHS AGO.

    Anyway, here are all the facts and I have the emails to prove them.

    As it stands right now, you paid less than half of what the parts were and I am sure as you are good at managing money you'd agree that this is not a profitable way of running a shop.
    The fact that you no longer own the car does not mean your debts vanished with it.
     
  17. PATLEW

    PATLEW Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2007
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    Marvin /Waxhaw
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    Patrick Lewandowski
    This thread was getting exciting accusations potential litigation but wow $1376 not alot of money for all that work. I would pay that in a heart beat and be thankful it was not more. No tie to any party and I do not know eigther gentleman I just love reading these posts its is entertainment reality show material. I was really disapointed I thought the bill was going to be 20 to 30k but $1376 come on pay the bill and if you are not satisfied find another shop to take your car to. Repeat business and word of mouth is essential to a repair shop. There are always two sides to every story.
     
  18. Toxiclemonade

    Toxiclemonade Rookie

    Apr 12, 2011
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    #16 Toxiclemonade, Oct 21, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
    boom.
     
  19. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    #17 gil308, Oct 21, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
    Wait...he doesn't own the car anymore? I wonder if that's the real reason he didn't pay...not a valid reason though.

    I don't have a wife anymore but I still have to pay her...and much more than $1300. Maybe I shoulda brought her in for repairs ;)
     
  20. Toxiclemonade

    Toxiclemonade Rookie

    Apr 12, 2011
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    Sometimes things aren't worth repairing...
     
  21. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,120
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    Kevin, that reminds me of a time last year when you called me in a panic when a tire store in Mt. Pleasant had your car and said one of your tires was irreparable. You car was going to be stuck there for a week until the new one arrived. I offered you a loaner tire that I dismounted from a wheel, stuffed in the back of my Porsche, delivered to the tire store and let you use. I asked for nothing in return.
    Once the new tire arrived you got it mounted by them and I was left to pick up my own loaner tire and bring it back.
    Someone of class would have thankfully brought it back themselves instead of inconveniencing the helping person a second time.
    I guess I'm a slow learner or may be I can't give up trying to see the good in people.
     
  22. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    #20 vrsurgeon, Oct 21, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
    Kevin, I have never had the pleasure of your company but I wish you well in your endeavors.

    Karl, your reputation precedes you and your shop is one to which I proudly refer to today. In fact, there are two people who I trust to drive my Ferrari and Porsches.. my wife and Karl. If Karl needed to drive 1 mile, 10 miles or 100 miles in my Ferrari 360 the answer is unequivocal: drive safely and let me know when you'll be back. I know my baby is in good hands. :) Karl is also one of the few mechanics I have met who are honest with me.

    I think all the other responses on this forum by Ferrari owners who know Karl, are indicative and supportive of his character.

    Karl, don't give up on seeing the good in people. :) What you reap you sow. Sure you may find customers that take advantage of you in any circumstance or field.. hard times can bring out the worst in people. Will try to stop by in a few.. have a couple things on the 360 and the Boxster that might need a professionals touch.
     
  23. Dincenzo

    Dincenzo Formula 3
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    If this is actually true, it would definately make him a candidate for "Turd of the Year"!
     
  24. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

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    Gil
    Soooooo very true...well said, and thank you for that perspective. Had that relationship been "repaired" it still would have been broken, and I would have never met the love of my life (no, not you Karl).
     
  25. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Gil
    Don't ever give up...
     
  26. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,120
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    I don't. Makes for a much happier life to see the good in everything that comes your way. Everything happens for a reason.
     
  27. Rob Lay

    Rob Lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Just letting everyone know that Kevin Hedges of Hedges Wealth Management has informed me he's going to sue the FerrariChat.com community and Karl unless we removed this thread. Just making the threat clear to the community.
     
  28. raiderceb

    raiderceb Rookie

    Mar 13, 2004
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    classy
     
  29. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Gil
    Sue the community? I've heard "it takes a village", but never thought someone would be so full of themselves to sue the village lol. Other than the empty threat, what's sad is that there is probably some low life attorney who would take his case...not because he can win, but because the attorney can bill and make money. He will sue for "slander" and then say the lies he told were in self defense lol.

    Sad, really...but facts are facts and the truth will prevail. Maybe I'll sue the community too...not sure what for, but what the heck. Maybe I'll sue y'all for making me type this stupid post and making my hands hurt. Could be carpal tunnel!!! Y'all are gonna PAY!!!!! :D
     
  30. Toxiclemonade

    Toxiclemonade Rookie

    Apr 12, 2011
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    I hope his attorney collects the fees up front...
     
  31. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    +1

    A shop just fixed my Ferrari, took FOUR YEARS, and presented me a bill for $4,996.00.

    I have no idea if that is "fair" or "outrageous" or what...BUT it's a legitimate and legal bill, so I paid it and got my car back, (while they were in the hospital, from totalling an F40..:( )

    This is an "aging receivable" and you need to pay it, brudda.

    The funny thing about "lawsuits" is that by the time both sides complete discovery, they'll know EVERYTHING there is to know, about your business ethics.

    Everything.
     
  32. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
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    ALL of us?????

    Holy smoke let me alert counsel........I didn't see that, before I posted my OPINION.
     
  33. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Your call, boss......
     
  34. Dincenzo

    Dincenzo Formula 3
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    Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
    Luke 6:44

    This thread has already been viewed over 1,000 times, and I'm sure that most have formed their own opinions
    about the situation. Many of you have had dealings with both Karl and Kevin. Look at the contributions that
    have been made here on f-chat.

    Karl, your reputation speaks for itself. Your kindness and knowledge has been spoken of many times
    by many of the forum members.

    Kevin, I think you did yourself more harm in this thread than Karl ever could. You talk of his "struggling"
    business, unacceptable work. and "excessive" fees. I think if you were to do your research just on ferrarichat,
    you would find some very different opinions. It would have been so much easier to just make arrangements
    for services rendered and to take your business elsewhere!

    Be very careful of your threats. Lawsuits have a way of bringing the truth into the light, and
    the light exposes all. Even that which you may wish to leave in the shadows!

    As I said before, I hope that reputations aren't destroyed.


    Just my opinion, afterall, it still is an open forum.
     
  35. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
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    Karl Troy
    Kevin, I would like to mention that you emailed me on 10/20/11 with this exact same quote from your post. I actually agreed to partial compensation and was willing to write the remainder off. I also told you that I was going to edit the original post to reflect that "our lost communication had been restored and that you had made payment in full."(even though I settled for less) Apparently you changed your mind and at this point so did I.
    I would gladly have Rob remove this entire thread if you decide to make things right and take care of payment in full. I'll gladly waive any interest charges.
    The decision is all yours.

    Karl Troy
     
  36. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

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    Sounds like a fair deal to me...
     
  37. Rob Lay

    Rob Lay Administrator
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    If Kevin and Karl work it out and agree to remove thread, that is fine with me. I absolutely won't do it because he's threatening me and FerrariChat.com.
     
  38. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

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    Gil
    +1 Totally agree with you.
     
  39. raiderceb

    raiderceb Rookie

    Mar 13, 2004
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    good deal...guy sounds pretty flakey to me anyway. I can imagine his threats are likely empty.

    Nonetheless, I would imagine there are 1 or 2 fairly proficient Juris Doctorates here on fchat who could advise of any appropriate actions fchat may need to take in defense. :cool:
     
  40. desmomini

    desmomini F1 Rookie
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    Well, I can guarantee you he won't be doing it with any investments from members here! (Unless you count the money he owes Karl....) I don't know, it seems to me that honest and up-front individuals who pay their debts RARELY (if ever) have to worry about "defamation of character" and the like...
     
  41. desmomini

    desmomini F1 Rookie
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    Kevin -

    You threaten Karl with going to various car clubs, etc. with this matter.

    What are your feelings about having this thread linked to various automotive forums frequented by the collector car industry?

    It seems it might be a more efficient way of spreading the message.
     
  42. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
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    Gil
    Reference #3): Many members on FChat are already members of the Ferrari Club, so no need to spread lies about Karl there. I'm sure many of the Porsche Club members are quite familiar with Karl, so your lies about him and his shop likely won't fly there either. I've seen British cars at Karl's shop, and he's referred friends for service at a local Range Rover independent shop, so you're probably out of luck in that circle too. I don't think Karl's intent was to hurt your company. I think his intent was to warn the community you are threatening to sue about behavior which is suspect and sheds light on your character. And your threats to Rob Lay and the community definitely support my suspicions that you may have a broken moral compass.

    Reference #4): Your firm being credentialed didn't prevent you from neglecting to pay your debts, or making up false statements about Karl and his shop. So, I'm not seeing the connection you are trying to make. If you can't pay your debts, or simply refuse to, how can others trust you? Being educated doesn't automatically make someone responsible, honest, ethical or moral. Bernie Madoff is educated...although not a Wharton grad.

    Reference the last quoted statement: Gentlemanly conduct would have been to pay what you owed immediately. Offering a small portion is not gentlemanly or appropriate. I would bet that the majority of the bill was parts anyway. I think Karl's rate is lower than the local Ford dealer...maybe you should have taken your car, I mean the car you sold and no longer feel obligated to pay debts associated with same, to the Ford dealer...just a thought.

    I'm not sure if I should seek legal counsel in the event you sue the community. I think I'm comfortable being represented by common sense. Maybe the community should hire a lawyer...if he/she charges a $5000 retainer, that should be like $0.50 per person??? I'm in! :D

    I'm sure there are a lot of people you could bully, threaten, lie about...but Karl? The FChat community? Really???
     
  43. desmomini

    desmomini F1 Rookie
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    Already shared with Pelican Parts and Rennlist forums, so the Porsche "community" is well aware of who we're dealing with. My apologies to any Wharton grads for ending a sentence with a preposition.

    I'll have to leave it to others to spread to the British car forums, on Kevin's behalf.
     
  44. desmomini

    desmomini F1 Rookie
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    Kevin, here's the response so far...this one is from a Porsche Club of America National Driving Education member (i.e. a member of the "inner circle" who communicate as you do and see your point of view):

    I only read page one, but why is some dickwad ripping off a reputable (Ferarri) shop any concern here? $1300 dollars for some substantial work and he is complaining?? What area of Wealth Management is this fool in, Appalachian Moonshine Wealth management? And it's double funny when a ******bag tries to intimidate on an online forum with legal terms...
    ____________

    Please let us know how we can continue to spread the message of Kevin Hedges.
     
  45. m5guy

    m5guy Formula 3

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    #43 m5guy, Oct 28, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
    Mr Hedges' initial response brings up some interesting questions. Is anyone reading this thread practicing law in S.C.?

    1) Are there really any State privacy laws that protect details of a business dispute between two individuals, or between an individual and a business?

    2) When Mr Hedges chose to create a Ferrarichat user profile and respond in detail to Mr Troy's complaint in a public forum, did he pierce his own claim of privacy? I believe he did, but again, I'm not an attorney. My wife is, but she has no knowledge of the laws of that State.

    It seems to me that this entire matter is now in the public domain, just like an argument between two people overheard by others in a bar, for example. It's a little late try to put the genie back into the bottle, so to speak. So following this line of reasoning, any of us who read this thread should be free to repeat it as long as it is represented as an unsubstantiated story, not stated as fact.

    Interesting.
     
  46. GaryR

    GaryR Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2006
    968
    Woodbury, CT
    Full Name:
    Gary R.
    #44 GaryR, Oct 29, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
    Wealth Management? Hedges is a thief, $1300 is a joke. There is no argument, a piece of dirt stole from a good man that cherishes fine cars. End of story.
     
  47. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,489
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Karl and I have had several conversations concerning technical issues on various cars as well as some discussion about a problem I had had with another business down in his neck of the woods. I was fortunate to have received resolution in that matter, and respect the help and information that Karl was able to supply.
    Being a small independent myself, I can see the reason for Karl's OP. He is simply pointing out that he has an account outstanding and is wary of this customer's ethics. I regularly try to 'network' my group of customers as well as reciprocate business when able. I would feel bad were I to put the wrong two in touch.
    I look forward to reading a satisfactory outcome in all this, and also to meet Karl and some of you in person.

    Best, Brian
     
  48. drjohngober

    drjohngober Formula 3

    Jul 23, 2006
    1,838
    Cville and Gbury Tex
    Full Name:
    Dr.John Gober
    The unbeatable defense of a slander allegation is if the statement is true. Karl made a truthful statement . He worked on Kevin's car who drove off without paying the bill. The time to have stopped this matter was before Kevin left Karl's shop.

    To go on a public forum hoping to bring about closure and get paid is understandable.
    To go on a public forum and threaten sue the website and community is not.
     
  49. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    5,928
    Full Name:
    Juan
    In the insurance industry, we are required to take various course, one of them being Ethics. Although I have dreaded taking this course, and consider it to be a waist of my time, as I am ethical in my endeavors, I have found it to be very interesting indeed. I just read this and thought I would share a bit from the course....


    "Moral principles or practices arise out of the desire to avoid the chaos of unrestrained personal behavior at the expense of the social order. Ethical dilemmas can be defined as undesirable or unpleasant choices relative to a moral principle or practice. What do we do? What are the chances that we’ll be caught? What does it matter, anyway?

    A Harvard history professor, Henry Adams, observed, “Morality is a private and costly luxury.” Many agree and further believe that acting ethically limits their options, opportunities and their ability to succeed in business. While this thinking rarely proves to pass muster in a court of law, many ethical short cuts have seemed to go unpunished, giving rise to the thought that ethical behavior isn’t worth the risk of losing out. Lest you think that you’ve got a cop-out… the winds, they are a changin.’ What seemed to pass for OK has been redefined as criminal and penalties, in the unlikely event that you are caught, are just too large to risk. One of the basic insurance principles: Don’t risk a lot for a little."


    Another thing that I found very interesting is this about P.T. Barnum...

    Let’s posit that the primary goal of business is to increase profits. Decision-makers need to have a series of steps, and maybe some rules, to follow to get there. How do you increase profits? It seems reasonable that satisfying customers would be one way. Then that needs to be broken down further: how do you satisfy customers? A commonly held view is that one should go about business ethically with integrity, and honesty. Remember P.T. Barnum, the fellow who is most famous for his statement, “There’s a sucker born every minute”? It’s catchy, but Barnum never said it. In Capitalism, Democracy, and Ralph’s Pretty Good Grocery (Princeton University Press), John Mueller points out not only that Barnum didn’t say that, but that it would have been seriously out of character if he had. “Barnum’s great discovery,” writes John Mueller,“was not so much that such behavior is immoral but that from a business standpoint it is stupid.” Barnum did make an important financial discovery early in his career. He noticed that nearly all his deceptive schemes “ended in disaster,” reducing him to a low income of only $4 per week. His fortune, however, came almost wholly from his legitimate enterprises. As Barnum put it, “[N]o man can be dishonest without soon being found out and when his lack of principle is discovered, nearly every avenue to success is closed against him forever. As a mere matter of selfishness,” he concluded, “honesty is the best policy.”
     
  50. mesoscale

    mesoscale Formula Junior

    Feb 19, 2004
    298

    Yeah, don't get me started on that 'other business.' That deserves a thread in itself. I don't want to take away from the issue at hand. I hope Karl can resolve this issue.
     
  51. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,957
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Gil
    I wonder what "other business" you are referring to... ;) Yes, that does deserve another thread. Would be best if started by one of the MANY unsatisfied customers.

    I think the issue of this thread is likely done...not resolved, but done. Either Kevin will pay his debt or he won't. We all know Karl's reputation will not be tarnished. We also know Kevin's firm has a Wharton grad. What else can be said?
     
  52. blaze

    blaze Karting

    Jan 6, 2011
    76
    Charleston, SC
    I'll represent Karl and F-Chat.

    For free.
     

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