Lamborghinis at auction

Agreed John, fabulous restoration to original specs.

 

I thought it would do well.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144296940-post939.html

I think what we are seeing here is the market rewarding a truly stunning restoration.

In fact, the market has cooled some since 2014, so with that in mind, this is a remarkable result, but well-deserved.
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Well deserved,Amazing car, good wibe all together,

 

this result is exceptionnal for a LP 400 S3...

but it leaves now the open door for such remarkable quality restoration level for any other LP400 S1 & S2 in similar condition...

 

Yes - this car was spectacular. There were several real bidders on the car very well into the bidding.

 

I am wondering how you and the other experts are defining "a truly stunning restoration".

What are the most important facts? What are the common mistakes? What makes the difference between a professional and a truly stunning restoration?

 

the S3 was and is less money than S2, that is less than S1 that is less than an LP400.
but same time it was more money than the 5000S, the anniversary and around same as DD, sometimes is more.

and still is today, probably all the 400S cars are worth more in comparison to later car today than they were 6 years ago

the result of the green car is, in my opinion, a combination of color and conditions.
Joe is correct: very rare color combo, complete car and very nice restoration! these make a big difference in value today. market is very selective now

as an ower, i am supposed to say all S3 are now close to 1 million .... but i honestly feel this car is in the very top of the S3 market and most S3 are not worth that.

at the same time, still my opinion, a nice original S3 was never really less money than later cars.
the power of the engine is more or less the same as an S1 (owned both and the difference is impossible to tell ...the difference btw 2 400S cars is if the engine is working properly), the real difference is the body: here the cars are different.
still the S3 has the nice and "spartan" 400S interior, magnesium wheels, big wing, carbed, etc...so very good looking countach.

the 400S cars are expensive simply because they are all beautiful and all very rare (just 80 S3 cars built and not all in flawless original conditions!).

 

In the latter case you can jump into the car and have a holiday drive to Cannes. And return home. On the road and not with a trailer. And the only service needed will be filling up the gas. And everything will work as it should. Even the cigarette lighter. In the former case all that will not necessarily be so. Or was it the other way around? I am not sure ...

Seriously, I have known several condition "1" cars (absolut top condition note in Germany) with top price tags, which looked the part, but were not in the technical condition to drive from the transporter to the fair stand. Sold nevertheless. Will have been pushed away into the next collection. Because starting the engine, not to speak of driving, would negatively affect the value ... .

 

Because I can speak for this particular car, I know it was restored by the same persons who built it 34 years ago...

so, it was restored with the only one true knowledge : the one from factory workers

that job was not biaised by nowadays professional "little mistakes"

 

Hola!

 

Good number but I fear that there will be those who will take these numbers and justify raising their price for self serving interest.
Then those cars, aka saturated, will sit and sit and sit until they sell for a lower number, possibly driving the prices down again. Who knows.

What I do know is that the community is smarter than most of the brokers/dealers/filppers. Most of them can not be taken seriously when talking about their "perfectly" restored car. We can see right through those.

And, it goes to show, if having car restored, document it document it document it and don't keep it a secret. The more the community see, the more positive talk there will be. Just look at all the comment about the green. Everyone is in agreement about it.

 

Knowledge, resources, and skill.

An authentic restoration is one which which is properly & thoroughly executed, faithful to the manner & finish in which the cars were originally built.

Common mistakes are, paint color that is not the same as the original hue, caulking that is too thick, partial restorations (such as omitting to refinish the interior and other aspects), wheel finish that is too glossy or bright, interior stitching/padding/seams that do not replicate the character of the original, use of incorrect hoses in the engine bay, use of non-original finish and texture in the refurbishment of components, use of non-original parts & materials due to non-availability of OEM items, and the list goes on.

Last but not the least, most restored cars come out of the restorer's shop looking good but operating poorly. The mechanicals and functionality are as important if the car is to be properly used.

Bottom line, it must drive as good as it looks!

An authentic restoration is a huge commitment, I'm just beginning one presently (for the first time in many years), and it is always a daunting task. But if you know what is correct in the first place, have the resources, and skilled input, its helpful.

Pursuant to the Lamborghini Miura & Ferrari GTO books, I've decided to do a little more writing & publishing, so hopefully I'll get to expound on this subject in the near future.

 

Regardless of what anyone in particular does with their sale, I think it's one heck of a new high water comp for a S3. As a Countach owner, it has to make you smile. The comment made by Scott Ales sometime earlier rings true. Something along the lines of "great cars are never cheap cars, and cheap cars are never great cars".

 

given the recent S3 sale from the very top, this will be interesting. It is amazing to know that yellow car wass sold less than 95K in 08..
car has been driven quite a bit since. Seems both interioor and exterior color have to be restored, some damage on the rear hood, streeing looks worn and lots of hole in front and rear on first glance. but the car has been driven.
This sale shouold provide a good top and low range for an S3 I think.

the RM estimates were completly outlandish and make what really seems to me to be strong prices, look consistantly coming "under" this outfit does not seem to help stable values or perception. even the mangusta was a very strong ssale but seem to be "under" from their estimate. the testarossa was another example

 

ah! sorry .too many cars mangled at once.

 

Thank you for the interesting answers. Obviously the quality of the restoration has a major influence on the car value.
For a better understanding I try to define the ideal full restoration. In a first step I focus on the mechanical part of the restoration:

1.0 Mechanical

1.1 On component level

1.1.1 Technical component condition
1.1.1.1 All functional relevant measurements within the factory new tolerances (this is more demanding than staying within the factory acceptable tolerances but grants the maximal lifetime), protocol necessary
1.1.1.2 All technical surface treatments according new specification (process, hardness and deepness), protocol necessary
1.1.1.3 All bearings new (ball bearings, other bearings and sleeves)
1.1.1.4 All rubber parts, hoses and seals new

1.1.2 Component finish
1.1.2.1 Components without finish with surface treatment
1.1.2.1.1 Clean, free of corrosion, mechanical damage, scratches, pitting
1.1.2.1.2 Structure of surface as original (not bead blasted or polished if this was not the original finish etc.)
1.1.2.1.3 Hue of surfaces as new old stock
1.1.2.2 Components with finish surface treatment
1.1.2.2.1 All surface treatments applied according the original process (zinc, chrome, nickel etc.)
1.1.2.2.2 Use of original paint and agents
1.1.2.2.3 Hue of surfaces as factory new

1.2 On sub assembly level

1.2.1 All tightening torque according factory specification or according thread material and installation situation
1.2.2 Use of sealing materials (silicon, glue etc.) only where was applied by the factory
1.2.3 All settings according factory standard
1.2.4 All free plays according new specifications
1.2.5 Functionality of functional sub assembly fully tested and all parameters within new specification. Protocol necessary
1.2.6 The engine was braked in and tuned on a calibrated engine brake. All parameters performance within new specification. Protocol necessary

1.3 On complete car level

1.3.1 All tightening torque according factory specification or according thread material and installation situation
1.3.2 Use of sealing materials (silicon, glue etc.) only where was applied by the factory
1.3.3 All settings according factory standard
1.3.4 All free plays according new specification
1.3.5 Functionality and tightness of all systems fully tested (for geometry and brakes protocol necessary)
1.3.6 Al systems operate smooth and the operation forces are comparable to a new car
1.3.7 All noises and sounds in normal operation are correct and comparable to a new car (differential, gearbox, engine, suspension, brakes and wind noise)
1.3.8 The car is water tight

In a next step I try to define the ideal restoration for the body, the used materials and parts plus the acceptable modifications and alterations.

I am happy about any input as well as critics.

 

Great post, please go more into detail and please continue. Imho all technical things to be restored in as new condition. Lacking this the car is imho not really restored, but just kind of "serviced" (and this applies to the huge majority of vintage Lambo cars).
Ben

 

Agreed.

 

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/cars/lamborghini/countach?make=169&model=1461&search_type=advanced&page=1

 

Which Silhouette was ever watertight when new?

 

Here is another at the wrong venue


https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/AU1215-228918/0/1989-Lamborghini-Countach/

 

Or a Countach.....they should have installed a sump pump in the front trunk..... Good thing my car only comes out in the best weather

 

By the nature of these posts(restoration done well/"just serviced") & auction results....does this mean that the Pendulum has swung away from "barn-find, original dirt 'ne 'patina'", and so on? I for one surely hope so.

Jack

 

This is a good listing, I agree, I've no critic, but your listing open the door to the next questions which are :

WHO best than old factory workers know about these ? yes, because a title or subtitle is easy to list (and it is a good initiative), but I'm curious to read the full explanation of HOW and WITH (tool or material source)...

WHO else in the world - exception of very few professionals in the world with more than 20 years of full Lamborghini skill - can pretend to have the expertise and knowledge to follow the factory protocol ?


Another topic =>=> 1.1.2.2.2 Use of original paint and agents


Actually, I know a very limited number of people able to still use "Acrylico paint"....

Please let us know, how is it possible to reach the factory standard quality paint with "water color" by nowadays ?