Maserati Bora - Picture Thread

330 area code is Ohio, I suspect the car in question belongs to Jerry Bensinger. I believe Jerry's car is #1038. Which would make it one of the last 5 built.


Joe

 

I'm not sure you could even built a Thepenier group 4 replica out of this one. I'd be worried about the metallurgy on everything in that car. But if it the metal was OK that's about all it's suited for.

 

This one will require a brave & wealthy owner too.
It's been sitting since 1979.
I bought one just like that 24 years ago. It was no cake walk.
This one is now 24 years older than mine was at the time.
Makes the most sense to just keep it as a museum piece.
But if you want to drive and use it that can be done too.
They're great road cars as long as you fit well in them. Those with long legs need not apply ...

 

I believe it is Jerry's. He had called me a couple of months ago to see if I might be interested in it (I bought his Copper Bora a few years ago). The cars miles are certified and it has been run regularly to keep it's blood pumping. At the time he was thinking of a price in the low $100k range.

 

AM117.US.1038
1977,
1994 with James Tharington -Myrtle Beach.SC./ USA

Ciao!
Walter

 

PM sent.

 

The owner of the car is also the owner of the shop where the car is located. He works exclusively on exotics and has a formidable knowledge of them. Whenever you take your car to him you for service receive a "new" car when you get it back, and you pay accordingly. He does understand that there are concerns with the Bora because it has sat for so long but when he's done it will be better than new. I hesitate to use the shop's name as they are not a sponsor on this site and the intent was only to post pictures of a rare example of Maserati (rare in the mileage, or lack thereof) and not to drum up any business for him.

 

It was interesting because it was your first post and you were including a phone number. No one knows whether you have any affiliation to this ad/car or not. And seeing as how you are not a sponsor on this site that could have been a violation of the site's rules.

And nowhere does William ask for a phone number in his post. He asked if the car was for sale or not. The ad you site is from print media and is by definition "old" due to lead times. The car had been sold well before the ad appeared.

 

I'm familiar with this particular car and its condition. He called me for advice about it. I hadn't seen any pictures of it though so your pictures were nice to see. It's a real museum piece. You don't see many like that.

 

I agree. Unfortunately as a static work of art it also has its problems If I had a car museum and wanted to display a Bora, an early Euro car without the vent louvers, in a more interesting color combination, is what I would seek. This would show Giugiaro's design at its best. A red/black, US rubber bumper Bora would be towards the bottom of my list.

This Bora falls into the "what do you do with it" category.

Ivan

 

It really is a museum piece. I just don't understand owners like that however. Can't imagine a car like that just sitting in my garage and not being driven. Guess that's what makes a market, differing opinions/ideas. He also has a 2,200 mile Daytona in the shop which is possibly more blasphemous to me, but...

 

I have a 1977 Bora for sale. Mostly original paint, 35K miles, original 4.9 liter engine.

Photos and details at: http://thecarnut.com/bora77-964.html

Ivan
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Probably some reposts here: http://thethrottle.thechive.com/2012/01/18/maserati-bora-17-pictures/

Sample...
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The young lady snuck into the pictures of the various Boras certainly makes for a nice counterpoint.

EMS

 

That's my favorite part about that site.

 

At least one of this photos here is a Merak.

And one photo on this link is - VEEEEEEEEERY Boraaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! ..:)

Ciao!
Walter

 

I knew of one car like this which is now most likely lost forever and certainly any Bora that receives such a "conversion" is going to be worth a whole lot less money too.

It's sad to see these great vehicles fall into the hands of people who don't know any better.

Read it and weep.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/other-italian-cars/170541-playing-bora-merak-braking-conversion.html

 

Hi staatsof,

From what I understand it's more common to be skeptical to the LHM in US than in EU, and there is more talk about conversions like this "over there" I agree that a conversion to the "old fashion" brake fluid hydraulics is not the right way to go, and altering a vintage car like the Bora will effect the value in negative direction.

I know that Steve and Jim (mentioned in the Alfa BB thread) has the proper skills to do a conversion like that, as they has done a lot of great work on Jim's former Merak SS (a non LHM car). I have exchanged e-mails with Jim, and don't think the car is "lost". He has done a lot of work on it to get it back on the road, and hopefully the hydraulics may be reset to original later. I also prefer the original wheels, but if I would change them for some thing else, the ones that Jim has chosen would be on the top of my list.

I'm the guy in "Olso" that bought Jim's Merak ;-)
(it's for sale, as I prefer my other Merak SS with LHM).

Best regards
Marius Sorteberg, Oslo

 

To be clear I'm not a died in the wool Citroen-LHM fan but I don't hate or pan the system either.

I believe that the Bora & Khamsin were integrally designed with this system and as such should remain that way. I already know this to be genetically so from my discussions with Giulio Alfieri and I fully expect that Marc Sonnery's imminent book of this will provide everyone with a much fuller view on the whole story.

What I mean by lost is that most likely the part required to put it back will become separated from the car. I have a friend who is in the process of doing this and has been for many years (long sad personal story) and he actually sold off all of the stuff as well as the crabs and I think intake manifold. He's "converting" it to FI.

So later in the car's life this is most likely going to be impossible to return to original.

I don't know the guys you're familiar with though I do know Brain Shorey from another forum. I was quite surprised to hear that he was considering this as well.

Over here I expect the rationalization scenario goes something like this.

1. They buy the car at a reasonable price and fall in love with the stylizing & motor but not the brakes because they're not used to them and they ARE NOT as easy to modulate at slower speeds. If they aren't properly bled then they also grab and cause nasty lock-ups in the wet as well.

2. Then they look at the system and have a big WTF is all this sh*t moment.

3. This is followed by an Internet education as well as a general exotic car community bias towards this system. Some one should do a research project on how many of this systems critics (especially on the Maserati) have never actually drive one of these cars. I bet the percentage is quite high.

This system at one time and to a degree still is the supposed explanation for the fall from grace Maserati experienced vis`-a-vis´ Ferrari & Lamborghini after the Ghibli stopped being produced. Then the Biturbo came along and now serves as the primary scapegoat. That's a whole other threads' topic which can never be resolved. A discussion on a par with politics, religion, and abortion policy I should think. Maybe almost as controversial as motor oil discussions ...

4. Next they find out the expense involved with some of the non Citroen components like the all those under engineered but expensive hydraulic cylinders. Most likely they've picked up a car that's been neglected .Usually it's received zero service on the hydraulic system but it's still functioning at a minimal level after 40 years of no service. Try that with a standard braking system.

5. Then they find out about the Meraks that came here without the LHM system and they're off to the races figuring out a "solution". I have friend who has been embarked upon this exact project for many years now. He actually sold off all of those parts and so I have doubts about whether that car could ever be "put back".

As these cars begin to reach the $100K minimum level I fully expect that such modifications of the Bora will effect the value in a negative direction.

I'm not opposed to any forms of upgrades but those that are this obvious and in this case change the nature of the car dramatically I suggest people should avoid.

BTW, I like those wheels too. I do like the original Bora wheels too (sans hubcaps which I never cared for but some people do). At least those you can swap back with the originals unless big changes in the rotors& calipers have occured.

Bob S.

 

Here is an additional Bora for this thread - 1975 #932.

 

I'll add two more photos. '75 Bora #932 with '75 Bora #904 which still has its original yellow paint... The dark brown one is mine, and resides within 10 miles of the yellow one. We look forward to playdates...

 

Hi,

Here are some pics of Bora #744.
The car is equipped with the 16' BBS-Wheels which were designed for the Merak.

We couldn't find any Tires (265 width on 16') in Germany for the rear tires, so we imported two sets of Kumho 265/45 16 tires from the US.
We have a second set of tires (not rims), so if someone in Germany is interested, give me a PM.

Hendrik
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Nice to see someone posting here again.
I like the look of wider tires on the Bora. I prefer aggressive looking Boras. Wide tirs and sans hubcaps.
On the street I used to run 245/60-15 Gatorbacks or XGTs on the rear with 235's on the front and they were such a nice tire for it. Can't find those or anything remotely like them though.

When I briefly tracked the car I had BF Goodrich competition tires on it R1s with a 255/60-15 in the rear and 235's on the front. That did absolute wonders for the cat at the track and the diameter was near perfect too. I had to use 1/4" spacers on the rear for all of those tires. I'm guessing your rims have an offset to take care of that. The 235's in the front will rub on the sway bar arm at full lock but if you just remember that, it's not a problem.

These 265's you have on there come up 1.5" short in diameter by my calculations. Even with different rims tire availability is terrible for these cars NOW ...

Thanks for posting the photos.

How do you like the tires and what's on the front?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With 17" rims here are a couple of choices F/R that currently look very appealing but they too will probably be soon disappearing:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P+Zero+Rosso&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=345WR70ARXL&tab=Specs
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P+Zero+Rosso&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=445YR70ARXLV2&tab=Specs

If you move to 18" rims which I think makes the most sense now then there are many more options even in this same exact tire.I'd love to see a mock up of what the original style rim looks like in a 17" & 18" size.

Any photoshop gurus out there?

Rims highlighting the original brake and suspension hardware will look bad IMHO and with these cars being able to put the originals back on is a must.

 

Thanks for posting the pictures. I'd like to do something similar to mine, but have run into the same problems as everyone else. I thought I'd found a solution at group4wheels.com. They now make 7-10" wide replicas of the wheels used on the GR4 Boras. The opening paragraph on the site is:

"Fashion has dictated that larger diameter wheels have become the norm and tyre manufacturers have stopped making for example wide 15" tyres, a problem for many performance cars from the 70's and 80's, this problem can be solved by manufacturing the same wheel but in a larger diameter where tyres are more plentiful."

They even have the 4x130 bolt pattern listed. Perfect -- except that they made these wheels only in 15" diameter....

I found Avon CR6ZZ tires of about the right size and DOT legal, but they're track day tires and won't last long. They're not cheap either. CR6ZZ | Avon Motorsport.

My son will probably kick me for posting this photoshopped picture, but we wanted a rough idea of what the car would look like with 17" wheels and lowered. Two problems - just scaling the wheel makes the hub look huge, and the lowering was a bit overdone. FWIW, here it is.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Looks very nice -IMO!