MCLAREN 720S OR 488

Nice

 

Az is a wonderfully place to live, this is just one more reason.

 

Nevada also. In Nevada you deduct the trade value from the new car purchase value and then pay the sales tax on the remainder.

I traded a 458 coupe that I got back the MSRP value of 290K for a 458 spider with an MSRP of 315K and only paid sales tax on 25K, or about $2000

In California, I would have paid a higher rate than Nevada by 2 points on the ENTIRE 315 -- about $31,000

That's huge. It's like getting a Mini Cooper S for free.

 

First time we bought a car in AZ, we were pleasantly surprised by the savings. Makes it much easier to flip a car in a short period of you don't like it. Cali you are constantly paying the tax over and over again.

 

Constantly paying more and more taxes and the state gets more and more into debt.

 

I waited 3 years to get a slot for an F430 in LA.

I waited 4 months to get a slot for a 458 coupe in LV.

Another advantage of moving out of these markets with huge demand and limited quota.

 

I lived there for 32 years. Still have a house there where family spends a few months in the summer. I look back and wonder how we did it. I mean, I make a good living but the traffic, expense- just not worth it to me.

 

The 405 just makes me crazy.

In Las Vegas I can get from one side of the city to another in 30 minutes.

In LA, I can barely get from home to my local grocery store in 30 minutes.

We are getting off topic here and to get back into it, if they actually follow through with a Mac Dealer in Vegas I think they will do well. The 720s is impressive but actually I like the 570s spider as a fun "goof around" car. Mac people tend to drive their cars more than Ferrari people also.

 

Yes, surprisingly dealers are selling their demo cars. People seem to not want to wait for close to a year in certain markets

My plan was to get a launch car and then configure a car later. This won't be so easy to do as the line for allocations keeps getting longer in my area. I abandoned the plan to get the configurable car and will stay with the launch car for the foreseeable future


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I've been wrestling with the same question. Is the 720 worth the 150k delta? No doubt it's faster but they have a great car in the 570. Especially as 570 prices have come down. I'm seeking some great deals on 570 out there. I'm likely going to sit on the sidelines for the 720 for a year or so and see if I want to dip my toe in once the regular production cars come out.

 

I was just offered a new 2017 GT about $15K under sticker. Plenty of deals to be had on a 570 of all variants. Well, all variants except Spiders. Demand is good, margins are good, residuals are good. No reason to pass on a 570 if you really like it. Don't load one up with $70K in CF and MSO options, but if you spec it's reasonably, the cost of ownership is normal for the segment.

Personally I wouldn't buy a new 570 coupe being that the Spider looks identical, except the roof can come down. It's one of the few cars to pretty much maintain the same lines in coupe/spider form. Typically only a targa does that. I tend to dislike Sspiders because the lines are often meh compared to a coupe, but the 570 avoids this.

No exotic is worth $150K more than another exotic, objectively. Subjectively, the 720S looks like it's worth $150K more than a 570 IMO. Whether you should buy one depends on just how wealthy you are and/or how patient you are. It's a $330-350K coupe. All cars in this segment depreciate a lot. It's just the nature of very expensive cars. The sweet spot for depreciation on an exotic is $175-200K MSRP. Best bang for buck.

 

Historically Macs will depreciate more than Ferrari, turbo much more than NA. Will see how the newer models hold out. I would wait a few years before even thinking about first generation new model. That is true with all cars. The kinks get worked out in later models.
Paying above sticker, will always depreciate even more unless you can flip it to a desperate amuck. If you have money to burn, great, go for it.

 

Don't know if I have the wrong perception but many of the people who discuss depreciation on these forums seem to be people who buy 3 to 5 year old cars that are fully depreciated and then brag that the car hasn't depreciated in the six months that they have held it .


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I think this is part of Mac's problem. When you get to new car sales, used cars and even other models of their new cars in their own line become a pretty good deal, while the delta to performance smaller and smaller as the price increases exponentially.

I've been saying this for a long time now -- super cars are just too fast to enjoy where they will drive 99.9999% of the time you own them. So who really cares if one car goes 200 mph and the other goes 215?

I liked the 570s when it came out. I like the 570s spider more. The 720s is impressive but it's a lot to pay for a bit more performance given both are twin turbo V8's. At least with Ferrari you go from a Turbo V8 to a NA V12 when you step up.

 

I think Macs depreciate a lot faster then level out.

Ferrari's depreciate none or a lot less the first couple of years, then fall rapidly. We saw that with the F430, all the V12 cars, and now the 458.

So if you are a car flipper you can risk a lot less owing an F car than a Mac.

I don't care who you are -- losing $100,000 in a year while driving the car 2000 miles has to hurt.

 

Ferrari's include models like the Cali and FF/Lusso... when those are figured in, as they should be when stating "Ferrari", then Mc is no different than Ferrari when comparing depreciation of Mc versus Ferrari. It's not fair to take the LE's or 458 and use only them as your benchmark. Most have caught on that Mc has substantially "upped" the game and their resale has adjusted properly and in short term... the 570 has held well, the quality control at MC has come around, the resales has followed suit. Anyone trying to compare the MP4C as their only example against the 458 is grasping for straws at best, As said many times by those who have actually experienced the 720S... it is a game changer! It's not just a slightly upgraded/updated 570 like the 488 was to the 458.

My worthless .02 worth - the 488 will depreciate at a greater rate than the 720S will over the first 3 years of it's production run. The 488 will see a high rate of depreciation coming here over the next 18 mo's when the 720S hit the market and a either updated (488 GTO?) or replacement materializes it won't hold court anything like the 458 has done. I like the 488 but it wasn't a major change rather a minor update and the resale will reflect that

 

As long as the design looks the price, it's fine. 720S looks the price IMO.

 

Not pointed at you but people hardly give the overall picture. Here's some selected relevant facts of my experience:

2014 458 italia bought in 2014 with MSRP of $291K. Traded in for $240K with 2k miles in less than a year. Subsequently bought a 2015 f12 for $370K and wholesaled 15 months later for $280K with 4,400 miles.

Bought mclaren 650s for $310K. Put 10K miles on it and sold it about 20 months later for $215K. Individual transaction and I didn't need to buy any other car to get this.


Ferrari: 6,600 miles with $140K loss in principal and over same time frame mclaren 95K loss with 10K miles


Bought a 675 coupe with MSRP of $412K (i didn't need to buy any other mclaren to get a 675 as well as other buyers). It has 4,300 miles and I may be able to get $360K almost two years later

Bought a 675 spider. Had it for six months and didn't lose a dime on it. I could've bought it on it's own without having previous ownership history

Friend of mine:
Bought f12 but they screwed up some of the options. He still took delivery (so as to not upset dealer and buy some goodwill). He lost $70K on it in 3 months and replaced it with a new f12 with MSRP of $439K. He will lose $130K on it but it allowed him to get a 488 spider. If he keeps the miles low then he might break even on it but probably not. He could come on these forums later and say that he didn't lose money on 488 but that wouldn't be entirely true because there are these other relevant facts that he won't disclose.

There are enough first time owners of brand new 488's who bought Cali T or 458 and took a big bath to get a 488 and if they didn't sell out right away on the 488 they would have still taken an economic loss. (even if they did then what are they going to drive for the next few years).

In the past you could buy a brand new 650, perhaps 675 and if you want to just isolate the gain/loss transaction and compare it to a 458 or 488 without the other cars a person had to buy to minimize losses on a 458 or 488 then that isn't necessarily showing the entire picture.

 

I like this post.

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Mac lovers trying to convert Ferrari lovers on "ferrarichat", but that's what makes life colorful.
I just like driving my red 458 spider with the top down, and not have to worry about about 0-60 under 3 seconds, rather taking it all in while the music from a NA engine fills my void.

 

So that's : Ferrari, lost 140K on 661K (291+370) i.e. 21.18%
McLaren, lost 95K on 310K, i.e. 30.64%
That's hardly a good case for McLaren.
If you bought any new car for 50K, it would lose at most 50K - that does not mean it's better than any car losing more than 50K no matter its price.

 

Keep in mind your friend bought high MSRP/highly optioned Ferrari cars, which are notorious for losing money... a lot of it frankly.

My local McLaren dealer had a very low optioned 650S that was going for almost $80K less... they would never publicly advertise it, but just the very thought that a new car needed such a discount from the word go was very discouraging.

Any info or knock on the 720S is pure speculation at this point and not worth discussing.

 

The depreciation talk is nonsense. Buy what you like. Don't buy $300k cars if you can't afford to take a hit. Plenty of great used cars in the mid 100's.

 

People worried about an extra 10% depreciation shouldnt be buying $300k cars.