Merged: 0117 S - This Week's Barn Find

Guy,

Welcome aboard!

I am very interested you whatever you can share regarding your car. To me, it looks like a car that will be really enjoyed!

Regards,

Art S.

 

then i will:

history repeats itself in small ways -- Hitler, Mussolini, Nazis... this is exactly the Italain Justice system today --holding contempt for it's own history and people as it ordered the destruction of actual original and rare items that are irreplacable. why didn't they, then, order the original parts be removed for preservation?

in this case justice was "blind" but in an entirely different meaning. it was blind to original historical pieces in it's bloodlust agenda of Orwellian 1984 politics, a pointless shadow government lurking to disrupt the legacy of a great automaker, whose replicas would only serve to sustain the appreciation and longevity of Maserati.

this angers me long and far and i need to leave the forum to calm down.

sincerely,

chad

 

Um Bonzelite,

This is a thread about 117S where the only recent development is that the new owner of the car has just Joined the forum in order to say hello in this thread.

There are plenty of threads discussing the topic you mentioned throughout this forum. If you don't mind, I would be interested in hearing from the new owner about 117S in this thread.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Hello and thank you for your interest for 117 S.
It's a true barn find, all the parts are of period and it is very moving to see all theses numbered parts; everything is of a big simplicity but a redoubtable efficiency and after a spring cleaning still in service after 56 years !!!
The car after expertise showed to be very healthy,I plan to remove the rust and to repaint the chassis; the outside painting which also has a soul will be preserved.
The chassis Scaglietti all Aluminium is doubled by Polyester, can you indicate to me if it was usual in the USA ? and in what period ?
If you are interested, I'll indicate you the works which have been realized over 117 S
Best regards.
Guy

 

How is the car "of period" if the current motor (which, IMO is the second most important component of a car; the first being the chassis) is from a 250GTE?

 

The car was built "as is" in 1960's. Change it now and it will be nothing but a re-creation, reconstruction or a replica. I've crawled under it and unlike many "more correct" cars I loved it!!!

 

Mister LO COCO Domenico who own the car in 1955, sold it to Mister CREPALDI who sell and represent Ferrari to Milano ,say to me that the Scaglietti body was originaly ( 15 february 1956) " colore argento" (silver) .
Do you known a 121 LM silver ?
Guy

 

Yes you are all right,the engine is a 250 GTE (2+2) 1962 and we know it is not the correct engine,but can I say you :
1) it is a Colombo 12 cylinders 60° in the two.
2)1 Weber Twin-choke Carburetor ( or thre carburetors ) 36 DCF IN THE 195 INTER engine and 3 Weber Twin-choke Carburetor 36 DCS in the 250 gte.
3) Unitary and total displacement 195 =2341 cc in the 195 engine and 246 = 3000cc in the 250 gte
4) Bore and Stroke 65 X 58.8MM and 73 X 58.8 MM.
There is not an enormous difference no ? and many 1950 ferrari have received an more power engine !
I search also where are located the identification numbers placed in the Scaglietti body, I think this body was a race body car.
I whish also to contact Marcel MASSINI and also pierre JALBERT THE CANADIAN.
THANK YOU.
GUY

 

Nothing will be changed ,excepted when I find a 195 engine, but vraissemblably I'll conserve the 3 liters in the car.
I love it also.
guy

 

This car has a wonderful, colored history, and I think you are doing the right thing to preserve it as-is. While I agree that a 195 engine may be more period-correct, I think you can enjoy the car just as much with the current 250 GTE engine.

I hope you enjoy the car as much as I have enjoyed reading about it!

 

Martteen,
Congratulations on the purchase of 117. If I may ask: did the car stay in Belgium?
Best
Jurgen

 

Thank you Jurgen, no the car is now in the south of France.
Best
Guy

 

Exactly my thoughts.

Cheers to the new owner, who is planning to have fun with it, exactly what it was assembled for in the sixties!

Tom W

 

Thank you,
Attached a photo of 117 S.
The car at present is dismantled to bring him the first care,remove the spots of rust or oxidation to treat the reservoir (tank fuel) filled with rust also,in brief a light restoration but necessary to fidelize the car.
For two days we began has to paint "il cavallino rampante" on the body ,as it was made in the years "50" not with stickers as it is made now,it will ask five workdays.
The current painting of the car which is + 40 years will remain ,a professional will take charge in september with repairing ,in mind of time, some retouch.
Best.
Guy
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minor correction. The SF shield in 1956 (roughtly the year of your car's Scaglietti body) would have been a water-transfer type of decal; not hand-painted nor an adhesive sticker.

 

A lovely car.

Best wishes with it.

Tom W

 

Thank you Bryan (?),
I did not know this detail,but I think that a hand-made painting will be more in mind of these years.
I sent you a photo soon the work is finish.
Is the body N° 8 a 750 monza ?
Guy

 

Thank you Tom,
Do you know the race results of 117 S:
-First :"stella alpina" 1951 with Salvatore Ammendola
-Second " coppa inter europa " 15/04/51 S. Ammendola
-15 ieme "Mille Miglia" 29/04/51 S. ammendola
-Sixt "bolzano-Mendola" 03/07/55 with Lo coco domenico
and others ???
The car race also in USA with Peter Helm but I don't know where , have anybody details ???
Best.
Guy

 

no, the blue #8 car in my avatar is our 1955 Series II 500 Mondial, 0556(0446)MD that we have owned since 1960. The bodies of the late 750 Monzas and the Series II 500 Mondials are generally indistinguishable, with only minor variations on certain cars. To my knowledge, there was no internal numbering system for the bodies on the race cars that came out of Scaglietti (as opposed to those that were done by Pininfarina). So the interesting question on your car is whether its body was made specifically for your chassis or came from another sports racer. I agree w/ Bill Noon's posts and pictures earlier in this thread (from last sumer) that this body came off of an existing 4 (or 6) cylinder car given the location of the oil tank filler cap that has since been covered up.

 

Yes,
I have phone to the Italian Scaglietti coatchbuilder this week to know if it was an internal numbering System on the body,but they sent me to WESTERN-EUROPE FERRARI , only competent; I have a contact the near thirsday to see them.
We know already that the precedent owner Mister Lococo domenico (that spoke to me at phone) has sold the car to mister Crepaldi, franchise holder Ferrari at Milano and this one rebody 117 S with the current Scaglietti body.
We know also that mister Crepaldi was a sport-race driver,it was at the stering-wheel of N°564 MD ( 500 Mondial serie 2 ).
We know also by mister Lococo that the color was "colore argento" when the car leave Crepaldi ; color silver ,aluminium ?
It seems to me like an Evidence ( sure) that this body is a re-cycled race body car (4 or 6 cylinders).
Regrettably Mister Crepaldi is died since seven years and I don't know if they have old 1956 papers.
Best
Guy

 

I know this thread is about your very interesting 0117S, but since 0564MD came up, let me address a few items.

I assume you got the linkage between Crepaldi and 0564 from barchetta.cc. We have no idea where barchetta got information that Harry Schell drove 0564, but have reason to believe that is not the case.

Barchetta's assertions that (1) Mancini drove 0564 in the Caserta event and (2) the Messina event with Crepaldi and Mancini are both taken from our 1991 article in Cavallino #61 which we now believe are incorrect. Since research continues, the hypotheses in older articles sometimes become disproven over time.

Dupont blew the engine in 0564 on 29 May 1955 at Hyeres. The Factory either rebuilt or replaced it. He next ran it with Briac 17 August and then it went back to the Factory for repairs which were apparently never paid for. Who knows, in the meantime if the Factory used it in other events it would have been unseemly (since Dupont still owned it) but entirely possible, however, remember that it was French Racing Blue so we doubt that the Factory used it so. On the other hand, our 0556(0446)MD was used as a Factory entry in French Racing Blue (but the Factory owned it at that moment), so I suppose anything is possible.

Our stance at this point is that DuPont used 0564MD twice and those were all the events in which it participated. We are always ready to see evidence to the contrary. 0564 is a great car and, to our knowledge, still wears its original Scaglietti body. We believe it is also one of only three of the Series II 500 Mondials that still retains the correct tipo 111 engine. The present owner has entered it in the Mille Miglia at least twice.

Sorry for the diversion.
Please let me know if you discover anything regarding a numbering system that may have been used by Scaglietti!

Robert Phillips
Bryan Phillips

 

Robert or Bryan,
Don't sorry ,it is a very interesting diversion.
You can find that Crepaldi Gastone run the 10 H. Messina the 07/24/55 500 Mondial serie 2 , on Goggle : whrite bolzano- mendola select :Mitoroso.de-ferrari online magazin select: Crepaldi.
You know very well the "50" years cars,the donor of 117 S could be :
-A CAR WHO WAS CONSIDERED LIKE DESTROYED:
Bill noon say in this thread " the car is pleny of scars and lots of rework after the fact..."
0512MD 0576 MD
- A CAR WHO WAS RE-BODIED:
0518M 0542 M 0544 0546LM 0574 F or MD 0406MD 0484 LM ( two body )
-THE CAR WHO DISAPPEARED IN JULY 1955:
0560MD
- OTHER CARS:
0586M 0556MD 0542
About your 446/556 MD is the first body a 500 mondial spyder serie 1 ?
Best.
Guy

 

congratulations for the restauration of the 0117S very beautiful aspect, if you get a little time we are expecting you in the French section FCF we have many
amirators of vintage car.
Best
Christian

 

I assume you are talking about car now carrying chassis number 0424/MD. Is there any absolute proof that this car anything to do with 0564/MD?

 

"absolute proof" in Ferrari history??? surely, you jest! You are correct, Kare. It is precisely the same circumstance as our car where Ferrari "assisted" a good customer w/ french import taxes on a trade-in. In this case, the Series II Mondial which should have received s/n 0564MD in order of production, happened to be coming off the line when Dupont brought S. I (PF bodied) 500 Mondial 0424MD back to Ferrari for a trade-in. Ferrari sold him the new Series II car that conveniently now had the same s/n as the car that had just left France .. . No idea what happened to the first 0424.

The ADS for 0564 shows the number stricken and replaced w/ 0424MD.

PM to me your email address and I can send you some other info on 0564(0424)MD