Merged: 0117 S - This Week's Barn Find

Martteen, you list opens a can of worms/possibilities, so let me try to help you rule out some possibilities of where your body may have come from (based on your list):

Your car clearly has the flat cowl in front of the instrument cluster to which the windscreen was mounted with a metal angle/channel. Your body did not come from a later Series I 500 Mondial or a later 750 Monza, since these cars did not have a flat cowl in front of the instrument cluster, but rather a curved metal faring to which the windscreen was attached. The first 500 Mondial with the curved faring was 0474MD and the first 750 with the curved faring appears to be 0492M.

Regarding the rest of your list - I don't think any of these cars provided the body for yours, but let me provide some details.
0512 hit a stone house and cut the car in half at the cockpit (killing Della Favera). Only front part of car body survived the wreck and the motor was given to another Mondial.

All 118 and 121 car bodies had longer front sections than the four cylinder cars , so these could be possibilities. We don't track these cars, so I can't help you much there.

0556(0446)MD (our car) survives with original S2 body. 0446(0556)MD is still the 735S it always was and is alive and well in Europe (it shows both 0446 and 0556 stamped on the front cross-member).

0560 original body with original twin tail fins survives to this day , currently in Portugal

0574 surviving chassis and body location unknown since 1956.

0576 front half of car totally demolished in wreck (in practice) at Oporto (Portugal); injured Samiero so badly he never raced again.

0584 front body had large side fender vent opening

Re: Crepaldi, I'm only saying that he did not drive 0564(0424) - Dupont owned it at that time, the car was being repaired by Ferrari, and Dupont had not had his fight w/ Ferrari re: the repair bills by then. If anyone has photos to the contrary (and not just musings on a website), I'd be very interested to see them; the car would have been French Racing BLue, so very distinguishable from the rest of the rossa corsa Ferraris in a black and white photo.

 

Mister Marcel Massini,
I am the new owner and I want to thank you for the barn find 117S that I have bought.
Like your second find 052 ,my car w'll stay unrestored,but fiabilized with its original parts.
I will be very happy ,if you consented to tell me what you know about 117 S .
the thread is very intructive but I don't know if the car RACE in USA with peter helm for example and where; Can I contact him ?
You have many things to teach me about 117 S
Thank you for all.
very sincerely.
Guy

 

Please find the hand-painting "cavalino rampante"; it is not a water-transfer but I have made it with my hands.
Thank you for your help but all the donnors are go away:its stay only for 500 mondial: 406MD and for the 750 monza: 0542 and also many 118LM and 121LM : 0546LM 484 LM (2 body) and other.....?
I find this afternoon on the gas tap a number ; the reservoir and the body could they have a common origin ?
best.
Guy
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Another amazing find. Marteen, all the best to you and the restoration of 0117S. Thank you for sharing. Any more pictures?

Merci.

 

Thank you for 117 S .
here two pictures.
Merci a vous
Guy
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You can try Peter Helm at 20427 Delight Street, Canyon Country, Ca. 91351, USA. I don't remember this car with Peter, but what do I know?

 

Bill Noon, you have inpected my 117 S body and you have probably found a party of the mystery due to the dry sump engine of the 4 or 6 cylinders and on the 8 points of attachments, its seems that this body is issue of an existant race body. Can you help to find the donor ?
What means " the frame is pure GILCO " ?
Thank you.
Guy

 

Ed Niles, thank you very much for this pist (adress) .
Peter HELM own the car a short time in the "60",here a picture with 117 S and an another with p.Helm racing at the .....mountain ? California ?
Guy
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GILCO is Gilco Milano, which designed and manufactured racing Ferrari and Maserati chassis in the 1950s. See:

http://www.gilcodesign.com/doc/GILCOdesignAUTO.htm

http://www.gilcodesign.com/doc/des/Ferrari340.htm

 

Thank you, but the frame (chassis) of my 195 inter is not showing in this site.
Best regards.
Guy

 

Gilco (Gilberto Colombo; no relation to the other Colmbo) is the company that built all Ferrari chassis from the beginning until around 1958. The company is now called Trafiltubi. Their web site does not show all the designs made in that period. They also built chassis for many Italian sports-racing cars from that period. Some chassis were Gilco designs, and others were designed by people at the car manufacturers themselves. The also supplied most of the tubing to companies that wanted to build the chassis themselves. They were the only ones producing tubing that was ovoid in section and tapered in length.

 

Very interesting.
Thanks
Guy

 

as an aside, my 72 bmw motorcycle had ovoid tubes. i imagine the older ones and newer ones had it too.

Tom w

 

Dear Bryan or Robert,
The works on 117S advance, I work on it but I take time to make them good.
I learnt that 750 Monza N°486 who belonged to the britanique CRAIG A. (6th at Mille Miglia),had been sold to Swiss Peter Monteverdi who had replaced at once the body by a body of its conception.
Can have you information on this automobile ,to know if it is the donor .
It is impossible to have any knowledge by Scaglietti.
best regards.
Guy

 

I thought for a moment that you may have found your body, Martteen, but after a little digging, I don't think the original 0486 Scaglietti body is the one on your car. I don't know if you have access to Prancing Horse no. 111 (from 1994); there is a picture of 0486 BEFORE the Monteverdi re-body on page 14. It has the faired-in windscreen that is characteristic of the later 750 Monzas, late Series I Mondials and all of the Series II Mondials. Your body clearly has the flat-cowl type mounting for the windscreen that is characteristic of the early Monzas and early Series I Mondials. My earlier post was wrong where I said that the first faired-in windscrren on a Monza appeared at 0496; 0486 clearly had it as well.

While I suppose it woulod be possible to do extensive metal work to remove the faired-in windscreen design, I think it would be highly unlikely, especially given the way your oil filler cap was covered over.

Keep up your hunt!! Glad the car is in caring hands.

 

Brian,
I am a little disappointed but I wisch that one day I shall know the donor.
The fact of being able to count on specialists as you encourages me to continue.
I received news today of " owners ferrari " which have no archives, and still no news of the coatcbuilder Scaglietti !
What do you think of the logo that I now ended ?
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The pic of Peter Helm driving was taken on the infamous Mulholland Drive, a winding street that goes many miles across the top of the Santa Monica mountains in SoCal. As you can imagine, many a would-be racer got a speeding ticket on that road.

Not to muddy the waters, but when Sal DiNatale was Peter's and my mechanic, I remember a car in Sal's shop that was a very early car, V12, with this style body, and the word being spread was that the body was a prototype for the Mondial/Monza, and had been designed by Alfredo (Alfredino, or Dino) Ferrari. I'm too lazy to plow through my S/N book (pre-computer) so will ask the questions: Is this the same car? If so, could the body actually be original?

 

Ed niles,who are you ?
What you say is very important,do you know peter Helm ? I whrite it but I have no response !
You know also that this 750 monza body was placed on 117 S by Mister Crepaldi seller official of Enzo Ferrari in Milano Italia, and you are tell us that this body could be a prototype of the 750 monza 500 mondial ???
What is the book you speak ? Can I buy it ? Please don't be lazy ,look at for me that you can find.
Thank you very much.
Guy

 

Ed - I think you are thinking of 0030MT that Peter Markowski owned for almost 40 years. Plus the body on Martteen's car would appear to have definitely come off of a 4-cylinder car by virtue of the location of the now covered-over cap for the oil tank.

 

Reply to Martteen and BryanP: Bryan is no doubt correct; as I said, I feared I might muddy the waters. I just flashed on that old memory from the early 60s. Was 0030MT ever in SoCal? Martteen, the "book" I referred to is just a book of serial numbers that I used to keep in the old days. It includes info gleaned from other early Ferrari researchers as well as what I was able to dig up. The only entry I have for 0117S is: 195/212 Vignale coupe;15th in 1951 MM with first owner Ammendola. Who am I? That's what my wife wants to know when she wakes up in the morning! I have owned over 125 F-cars between 1959 and 1990, was active in the Ferrari Owners Club (US) from 1961, and yes, I knew Peter Helm. To read more about Peter, see my story in Ferrari Market Letter some months ago entitled "A Subtle Civil War". Keep on drivin'!

 

Ed Niles, do you know if mister Helm race with 117 only to Santa Monica or if they are other races ?
I shall have wanted to know the date of purchase of 117 by mister Helm and the name of his salesman? And also when he sold, the date and the name of his buyer?
I wrote to mister Helm at the address you gave me to ask him these three questions.
You owned a 125 F....It is a great privilege. congratulations ,late but Candid !!

 

brian,what do you think of 0514 LM (118 LM upgrated to 121 LM )who race the Mille Miglia in 1955 N°706.
And also 0484 LM (118 LM )two re-body.
I find also that Niles ( ed Niles ? ) owned 0462 M in 1985.
kinds regards.

 

I don't think Peter Helm ever raced in the true sense; Racing across Mulholland is just driving faster than the law allows on a public road. I don't have any info on Peter's purchase or sale; sorry. Krasnavian (who posts here) is supposed to meet with Peter tonight, and I have asked him to see if he can get any more info from Peter. I also suggest that you write Peter again.

 

Martteen, we have never kept track of the staight-six cylinder cars; and I understand there are some real mysteries there. But I can tell you that the body on 0514, unlike your car, would have the faired-in windscreen like all the late 750 Monzas, late Series I Mondials and all the Series II Mondials.

You question re: the 118/121 LMs raises a good point, though. What is your wheelbase? The chassis tipos 501 and 510 (the Monzas and the Mondials) were 2250mm. If your wheelbase is not close to this and is in fact greater, then you may be loking at an LM body.

 

Ed Niles, thank you very much, I hope that Krasnavian can obtain Peter Helm's information concerning 117 s
Thank you for your implication : I prepare a new mail that I shall post at peter Helm's at the address that you communicated to me.
Guy