1. ATTENTION: http/https Bug Fix! Most of us have been experiencing problems staying logged in as we navigate the site. That is simply the result of links varying between http and https, which each require different logons. To resolve we are going to force https starting sometime Wednesday. However, you may have problems accessing FerrariChat until after you log out, clear cookies/browser cache, and log back on. Keep in mind my email is admin@ferrarichat.com if you do have access problems after Wednesday. Thanks!
  1. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    May 8, 2008
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    3765SA, this time at the Nürburgring 1000km, earlier in May. Driven by Mike Parkes & Willy Mairesse, it took 2nd place overall.

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  2. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    factory records say: Nürburgring 1000km = 3673SA
     
  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #303 miurasv, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
    3765LM, not 3765SA.
     
  4. retired

    retired Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    259
    Sorry, not true Factory records confirm 3765LM Ran the Ring and Lemans in 1962

    3673SA is a super America street car with swb body . Wasn't even built until 10/10/1962!! After both races were over by than.
     
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  5. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Tom,
    Dyke Ridgely and others who have researched this are unanimous that it is 3765.
    Best Regards,
    Dave
     
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  6. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    It's a Superamerica engine, so why LM denomination?
     
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  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    The engine is not quite the same as a Superamerica as it's more powerful, has been dry sumped and has 6 double choke Weber carbs rather than the 3 of the Superamerica engine.

    From Ferrari's website: "The 330 LMs saw plenty of competition use, especially at the 24 Hours of Le Mans from which they take the LM suffix to their name."
     
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  9. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    Attached a pic of what I believe was the 4-litre Superamerica engine in 3765 taken at the 1962 Nurburgring 1000... This looks like the stock Weber 46 DCF carbs, which explain why the power bulge was smaller than the same car at Le Mans. I suspect that the carbs were changed for Le Mans to the taller 42 DCN, therefore the much bigger power bulge... Then again I could be wrong ;-)

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  10. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    Another rare GTO, in fact unique. 4713GT is the only 250 GTO with this 330 LMB type body. Here a the 1963 Goodwood TT driven by Roger Penske to 9th place.

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  11. nico308

    nico308 Karting

    Dec 11, 2011
    92
    I have this picture I always had the feeling it was 2053GT but nothing on the back of the picture .Thank you Mr Massini
     
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  12. nico308

    nico308 Karting

    Dec 11, 2011
    92
    Léon DERNIER was "Eldé ",and" Beurlys" is Jean Blaton who raced 2053GT at La Coupe de Bruxelles in 1962
     
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  13. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    You're right. I often get my names mixed up after a long day, especially when they are nicknames!
     
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  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Roger Penske came 8th at the 1963 Goodwood TT.
     
  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #314 miurasv, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:10 PM
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 10:15 PM
    Don't shoot the messenger. See Ferrari web site here: http://auto.ferrari.com/en_EN/sports-cars-models/past-models/250-gto/

    "Early development of the new model was shrouded in secrecy, with Giotto Bizzarrini charged with developing a car to take on and beat the Jaguar E Type. In various interviews over the years he has said he was given an old 250 GT Boano chassis as a basis for the project. However, internal factory records show that he was provided with a 250 GT ‘passo corto’ (chassis 1791GT) on which to base the new car."
     
  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #315 miurasv, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:22 PM
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017 at 10:31 PM

    Some of the 400 Superamaricas may have used the big double choke 46mm Webers X3 but generally I believe they used smaller double choke 40mm, 42mm Webers X 3 or even Solex carbs???

    The engine in 3765LM and 330 LMBs was the competition application of the 400 Superamerica tipo 163 engine.
     
  18. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    According to Marcel Massini, Ferrari may be wrong in their statement: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/145612658/ (post #285)

    Best.
     
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  19. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Who knows what it was! All existing factory papers would be shredded if the car was modified or destroyed.

    I would expect the chassis number to have been issued in 4/62 so there is a possibility it had a secret life preceding the one we know. It is also possible that the frame was put aside for a reason or another and put into production when not needed for that purpose anymore (there are other cases like this).
     
  20. retired

    retired Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    259
    All factory records on these cars are in the files. I have inspected them myself. They do not shred records!! All the serial number mods etc that were done in the past are still in the records.
     
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  21. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Wonderful, so where was 3673SA between April and October 1962?
     
  22. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Thanks, today I inspected the ACO files 24H 1962: 3765 it is.
     
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  23. retired

    retired Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    259
    Not built yet!!!!!
    I have the build sheets Built Oct 1962
     
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  24. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    According to Keith Bluemels 250GTO book there are two quite different theories about 3673SA, one of which where it was only ever a special 400SA (same Tipo 539 chassis as a 330LM/GTO) with Passo Corto bodywork ala mode the Short Wheelbase supplied to Italy and soon sold to the USA. In that 1st scenario the car raced at Nurburgring was #3765LM, the second scenario is based on the much more contentious claim is that #3673SA was built to 330GTO spec in early 1962 and raced at the Nurburgring before Willy Mairesse took it for a drive in June 1962 and destroyed it in a crash outside the factory. Either it was rebuilt to Passo Corto spec or was that all along but either way by late 1962 that is how it was and remained that way until the 1980s when DK Engineering restored it as a GTO for Paul Vestey and it remains so to this day.

    There are noted detail differences between the Nurburgring and Le Mans 330GTO and there is no significant reason for a change to vents and lights so where they the same car (or not). Various expert members of Ferrarichat have had access to the Maranello archives and other materials and some still believe in the separate cars scenario but most seem to believe that it was #3765LM that was at both events. Perhaps the biggest issue is that the knowledge of these cars in the 1980s was much less than even a decade later and it is very possible that the knowledge vacuum and a little wishful thinking could easily account for why the story of #3673SA as a lost 330GTO was created. I must say the jury is out but one scenario is more likely than the other.
     
  25. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    #324 kare, Oct 15, 2017 at 3:51 PM
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017 at 3:57 PM
    Would love to see the earlier ones, the ones that may have existed and got shredded. Ferrari archive it a technical archive, not a historical one. They primarily kept documents that were valid, old docs would only create confusion so they were usually destroyed.

    I am sure the Nürburgring car (#120) was 3765/LM. The nose was changed to meet Le Mans light rules. Many GTOs were changed too. However I would love to know what 3673/SA really was and where it was kept from April to October. The serial number was created in April and I am sure they did not create it for being written on a piece of paper so it could be used 6 months later!

    It could have been a reference chassis kept alongside for dimensions, or then they started to build a racing car upon it and soon decided to use a modified racing chassis instead. One day we might find out, or then not, who cares!!!
     
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  26. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #325 miurasv, Oct 15, 2017 at 9:23 PM
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017 at 9:29 PM
    According to Bleumel's GTO book chassis tipo for the 400 Superamerica was 538 and the 330 LM 539/566. Engine used in 3765LM was the competition tipo 163/566. Standard 400 Superamerica engine is tipo 163. It has been stated here that 3673SA was in the last few years at the factory having its original and correct SWB body reunited with it.
     
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