Official Countach Value Thread

Right on AIR4C!! It is really funny that just two months ago the three of us(AIR4C, Testarossa717(Antonio) & Myself) were trying to convince the majority of you about the huge spike in prices of the Anni's and most didn't believe it. I understand when there is a difference of opinion on subjective matters (i.e. Preference of a particular variant of Countach) but you can't argue with the data of TIME DATE AND SALES that we posted even though most of you, including Roy, tried to dispute it. In fact just two weeks ago TBAKOWSKI was stating that he had three Anni's up for sale for years and could not even get $90,000. He was relieved that just recently he finally sold one for $90K. Funny thing is, I called BS!! I asked him where they were advertised - no answer. Called him out in this forum to provide the info so that I could pick up my $90 K Anniversary - never heard a peep from him. All you have to do is read the data points and see where their prices are.

By the way Canepa's 89 Anniversary Countach with 8,000 miles that a few forum members described as looking "rough" before his restoration and that many of you chided would never sell because he was asking $225,000 US....ummmm check the website....it's sold.

Please don't forget to say "Oh there is a difference between asking and selling price" Call him and ask him what he received. Please also don't forget to bash the sills and fuel injection.

Now we hear from Early Cat that John sold his Anni and he was asking $229K Canadian or $206,000 US dollars. Hmm... it's amazing that according to most of the collective brain trust how all of these Anni's cannot even get $90,000.

You know what? Roy please pm me. I will send you a check for $90K for the white Anni at George Evans.

The article in UK Classic Driver advertising the delivery miles Black Anniversary claim that the average price of an Anniversary in the UK is $250,000 US dollars.

Not to worry I will be there with my check book for $90,000. I am sure that the prevailing school of thought here will win out and I will either buy Roy's white one for $90K or the Black delivery miles for $90K. lol some people need to actually get their heads out from there behinds and stop bashing this beautiful variant.

The Wolf of Wall Street and Joe's thread on the Anniversary has changed the climate. Just in case I am wrong though, feel free to pm me with your offer to sell your mint low mileage Anni for $90K. I have cash in hand and I'm waiting.....

 

Just to be clear, I did say that the Canepa Countach was "rough" before the restoration because I saw it in person and was offered the car. I passed because of how much work it needed. Canepa did an AMAZING job restoring the car! I'm very happy it sold for the price it did because I bought a near perfect 89 from Roy with only 3000 miles. This makes me smile!!

I'm loving seeing the prices of Countachs go up because they are just so unique vehicles. There will be nothing like them ever again. The only downfall is that most people will not be able to afford them anymore and the owners that have them might just store them and not show them off.

 

Thanks Rhyno and congrats on your purchase. So tired of people bashing the 25th.

By the way Roy, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe these were your quotes:

_____________________________________________________________________
"BUT I just don't see these cars at $150K..EVEN for a "perfect" so called one off car..."

"IMO, and its just like that MY OPINION..the 89 cars range from a low of $95K (needs $25K of work to make it a GOOD solid car) to TOPS $145K for a low mile, rare color, great shape "has no needs" car..."
______________________________________________________________________
I am salivating at the prospect of your white Countach, since we already know your reference range in price because I would like to think that you're a person of your word.

Hey Countach QV, I am wondering if you are also still on the campaign of the price range being in the toilet for the Anniversary. Perhaps there is different pricing of this variant in France. Perhaps I could learn something. Maybe you could post some actual ads and sales showing the opposite of what I am espousing or has a miracle occurred and you are finally coming around to the idea, that believe it or not, this variant is actually surpassing in "% increase terms" all of the other variants out there in the last year because even when I posted the data several months ago, you weren't buying it. I know what I just posted is probably sacrilegious to the many carb obsessed pre 88.5 Countach fans that hate the Anniversary but I am tired of the unwarranted bashing.

Oh and by the way, please don't forget Joe Sackey's Anniversary sale(US Variant) in the $200's. I am done with people maligning this variant. Please have sales figures to back you up if you are still claiming this car could be bought for $90K.

I don't want to forget my two friends in Italy who really seem to hate this variant. Any ads in Europe that I am missing to buy my low mileage, garage queen Anniversary for $90K?

Thanks,

 

Wow. Not disputing any of the points you make there because quite frankly I wouldn't have a clue. But do you really think one recent movie with less than 5 minutes of Countach footage and a thread here on FC can "change the climate" on the value of these cars?

 

Good Point MT. I believe that Joe's thread has had an amazing impact on perception. It is over 111 pages long and look how many views it has received. He is an expert in Lamborghinis and his opinion is highly sought after. As for the movie, IMO the time factor of screen time is not what's relevant. It's the articles that were published after the movie came out that re-ignited the Countach and it's decadence which defined the 80's that mattered and the attention the movie garnered with it's nominations and awards for best picture and best actor. Check out the gross sales of the movie, it's iconic just like the Anniversary.
Besides, you can't argue with facts so we will wait and see if all the bashers could come up with there ads for sub $90K Anniversary's that have been on the market for years and haven't sold. Would love to see these ads. Where are they?????
I know some will respond saying, "Most of the collector car market has soared in value over the last year". Good point. Tell me what has more than doubled in less than a year? If someone does not think that is indicative of what is to come I really don't know what to say.

 

Some of you Anniversary owners should come out of the closet and start posting. This is the best made, best performing Countach out of all the variants produced.

Take a look at how many Anniversary Countachs have left the USA in the last two years alone. Between Joe, Roy, Motor Cars International and several other dealers alone, dozens are gone and most definitely will never be back on US soil. There were reportedly 658 Anniversary Countachs that were produced overall but approximately only 177 I believe(Joe please correct me if I am wrong) came to the United States.

Two that I know of were totaled during Sandy. Don't forget the White one that was badly banged up in Wolf of Wall Street and the grey one on Dupont that was involved in a really bad accident and repainted a different color. Remember this is just in the last 2 years.

What's left??? Accounting for the others that were either destroyed, sold and shipped outside the USA or were badly taken care of over the last 25 years.... maybe 100 left in the USA??? Now how many of those are excellent examples?

Thats why I love the misinformation campaign of how many of these cars some people claim are around.

One more interesting fact, there is a growing contingent of owners of this variant that are not selling.

 

Posted on 8/7/2013: Quote from Roy....

"I don't care what they sell for or ask for in Europe..this is USA not Europe..and there are a LOT in the overall market of 89 cars for sale in USA. Of course you can ask what ever you want...and maybe convince someone its the next "Miura SV"...great...but I would rather sell a car at a "fair" value and have a return customer then a "hit and run-knock it out of the park" sale."

Please let me know where all of these Anniversary's are that you see for sale all over the place in the US market.

Cannot wait to see the pricing on your white Anni with all of the listings that you claim are widely available.

 

Fair enough. Personally I love the Anniversary, it IS a Countach after all! Interesting you mention perception too. There's no doubt Joe Sackey talks up all the cars here as it's literally his job to do so being a broker and author, completely understandable as I'm sure you appreciate as well as anyone.
I do suspect however though there may be a whole swag of people out there that never bother much with the internet, let alone reading threads here on FC who are perfectly happy holding on to their 25th's, comfortable in the knowledge that they are a better car than the earlier ones and knowing that even if they're not worth top dollars now, very soon will be!

 

[QUOTE
I do suspect however though there may be a whole swag of people out there that never bother much with the internet, let alone reading threads here on FC who are perfectly happy holding on to their 25th's, comfortable in the knowledge that they are a better car than the earlier ones and knowing that even if they're not worth top dollars now, very soon will be![/QUOTE]

I can also tell you that there are quite a number of wealthy people who are car enthusiasts who read these threads religiously combing for information that have never posted once.

I also find it quite hilarious when Roy posts a "Special" or "Limited" Edition Gallardo for sale on his website. He has one now advertised as an "Extremely Unique Lamborghini Gallardo"

What is so special, limited or "extremely unique" about any Gallardo when Lamborghini produced over 14,000 of them, yet this is what you choose to advertise as limited in numbers????

Cannot wait to see the "tons" of Anniversary Countachs that are for sale.

Ferrari produced over 18,000 360's and over 21,000 430's. At almost any point in time you can find over 100 used vehicles of either model for sale. That is what I define as a healthy number available.

I am waiting with bated breath, wondering how many Anniversary Edition Countachs Roy, TBakowsky or Countach QV will be able to post as advertised for sale right now in the USA so I can pick up my $90,000 Anniversary Countach Garage Queen.

The buyers have spoken. This variant is off to the races and no one is listening to the four or five people that are always trying to bash this car on this forum.

Maybe some of you are "talking your book" because you own another variant but don't hate on the best variant of Countach that Lamborghini produced. If you really love the Countach, show some respect for the evolution of this model.

 

Just an update:
I searched the Dupont Registry, Hemmings, Ebay, Ferrari Chat and Autotrader for an Anniversary Countach....came up with one which is the grey one that had a major accident, that was repainted a different color with 15,000 miles. The price dropped from $189,000 to $179,000. That was it.

Roy, the world is waiting...what say you....price on your Anni??? Please remember your words just a few short months ago and the "tons" available on the market lol.

Cannot wait for the replies........

 

Good Morning World, from the PCST time zone on a Friday AM at 7:15am! I enjoly waking up in the AM and reading the posts here..so here we go..

Mr FTtaner:

You are 110% correct on my qoutes..but please, lets put those quotes in the correct time frame when they were posted. They were my thoughts back then...and I stand by them back then..and I DID not only buy but sold the cars in the time period for my thoughts on prices..things change..and I am glad they do. But a few thoughts:

First off, Rhyno has probably the nicest 89 car I had ever come across. I for sure dont sell cars to LOOSE money..but I also always recall the saying I was once told

"Pigs get fat, Hogs get sluaghtered"

I surely like being a pig and enjoy to get fat on my sales, thats what I am here for, I like to eaxt Bacon and not ramon noodles. I bought the car right and Ryhno I am sure could easily make a FAST $75K over what he paid for the car to me today..Is he going to sell..NOPE..but if he ecer does, or he needs something else, I am sure he will touch base with me first. So I build customer loylty and I like that.

Next the Gallardo as "Limited Edition" or "Rare" that I sell, well of ocurse they are...I sold 5 of the STS cars here in the USA with ONLY 24 of those ever making it to the USA, I sold 2 of the Squadra cars, with ONLY 16 of them ever to the USA...so as they may not appeal to ALL buyers, the buyers they do appeal to it is a special vehicle. They were not the run of the mill Gallardo...but as the saying goes...dont like it, dont buy it.

As far as my White 89 with Evans currently. I sent it to him and was invested at approx $100k at the time. As with my quotes of prices and this car, that was approx 6 months plus ago. When I sent it to him, did I expect these cars to sell ( the few that have) at what we see...heck no. It was sent to be made as perfect as it can be so that I could enjoy it for myself. Same as the Blue DD I sent him. HOWEVER it appears that the 89 will travel the same path as the Blue DD I had. I placed it at a price that I would not loose money, did not worry if it sold or not as I would just enjoy it...and BANG it was gone at my asking price very very quicly.

SO NOW to the 1 million dollar question...will that happen with my 89? Who knows? WIll it be placed up for sale..yes it will, thats what I do. WIll I drive it and enjoy prior to it selling, I sure hope so...the question is HOW long will I get to privately enjoy it prior to it selling?

Since I will have close to $190K plus invested in it AND since it will, after George gets done with it, be one of the TOP 89 cars in the USA...I am sure my asking price will start with a $2...will it sell...we will see.

The last thing you need to see, that is NOT good for Dealers such as myself...is once I sell one of these cars, its not like I can go out and buy another one for inventory and stock for sale..with each month that goes by...owners of these cars are less and less selling them to trade up...they are keeping them and enjoying them...

 

I agree with Roy that I could flip my Countach and easily make $75k but I bought this 89 because I love the Anniversary cars and this one was exactly what I wanted. In September of last year I felt that I was paying a bit of a premium for my car but I was ok with it because it was a 2 owner car with 3000 miles, now the price I paid is a steal for any Countach! I had a great buying experience with Roy and I will definitely go to him again when I'm looking for my next "special" Lamborghini

The last few Anniversary cars that have sold have all been over $200k and I don't see this trend slowing down. As soon as any Countach goes on the market there is a feeding frenzy over it and they are selling extremely fast. The John Scotti Anniversary sold in 3 days!

I just got emailed about a perfect one owner Jalpa. The asking price is $50k. I feel it's to high but in a year who knows how much they will be trading hands for.

These cars are very rare and it's really neat to watch the progression of the values of these cars, the market has changed so fast and it will be interesting to see where it is in a year, 2, 5 and 10 years from now

 

Well guys an update in my small circle. I had mentioned not long ago that a friend of mine was financially hurting and was on the verge of "maybe" needing to sell his countach. A very good condition, original 4v f.i. car. Finally "learning" what has been going on he has instead now decide to refi his house to get money instead of selling the car! Lets not discuss if this was a good move or not please, i'm just telling a story..an interesting mind change amongst some owners as of late. It would have been the last $110,000 car i knew of personally. (that is the number he mentioned!)

 

As with any “investment” decision it’s about risk/reward. Those who are in it for the investment approach it differently and have a vested interest in pumping up values. Those true enthusiasts w/$ don’t care.

The problem I have with a lot of these threads is the Monday morning quarterbacking. Time1 doesn’t equal Time2. Get over it.

 

Hope everything works out for him.

 

Since my handle shows up several time in your post, I feel compelled to clarify my thinking.

First I am not , as you mentioned in a previous post, denigrating the 25th in any way. That must be clear. I for one, always agreed that the 25th is the best car for a driver.

What i was saying , as well as others, is that it was one the least value of the model relative to others, which does not mean it is bad car. There are plenty of great car at good valuations.

For a long time the 25th has been on the trailing end at equal car conditions, relative to other models. Was true before still true now. This board has long established the comtemporary picking order.

That said it is only normal the 25th goes up with the rest. I dont think it is Joes thread doing it. It is the car market in general, the $$ weakness, the lack of places to park one's money. May be Joes thread had +1% effect?

the 25th is an 20th century limited Italian car in a red hot market, that is what is doing it.
People are hoarding the early cars. The few one around in the USA are 25th so buyers who want one will fight over those. All italian car are on fire and the old french one too! Will it last?

Yes the car was worth $145K no so long ago and that was my point. Now it is more like $190K and over 2 for the real nice ones. When you see now 5000s going in the mid-2s, no one should expect these cars to remain at $140K or below today.

May be one day the anniv will explode in popularity and be worth over the lp400, who knows? but as of now all prices are sharply up with the anniv at the trailing end relative to other model.

EDIT: also at the risk of being called "DD obsessed" again, I will be really interested to see the hammer price of the Red DD from RM. if over $300K then the market has moved up for good with one more sale at records level.
This will confirm the latest sales figure we saw as a solidtrend or a speculatve market on the way down

 

First, thanks for all the replies.

I wanted to take a second to share my personal story. A little over a year and a half ago I began my quest to buy a Countach. After much research and with the help of this forum, I decided on the Anniversary, which I fell in love with. I started to research pricing points, data and ads and began my journey with a very good friend who is a member here. What I found was there was a lot of what I alluded too earlier, "misinformation" about this variant. Some of you were posting words like "tons available" and "ALOT made" and this straight out was just not true. Every time I had a lead I would explore, the car was snapped up quickly. I always try to follow the money trail of what happened to the car and most of the previous owners or dealers would be kind enough to disclose what happened with the sale or I would read on this forum about the new owner of an Anniversary I was looking at and contact him and try to find out price paid, details etc.

The trend I saw that my F Chat friend here clued me into first, was that these cars were indeed being snapped up and mostly by collectors and very knowledgeable buyers with deep pockets. My F Chat friend got a lead on the nicest Anniversary available in the U.S. This car is pristine. He was excited. He booked his flight, bought the car and I was happy for him. He arranged the deal to buy the car pending a PPI within 5 minutes of the ad appearing. Timing is everything. He was recently offered a price for that Countach that I won't disclose until I get his okay just like I knew the actual sales of several other cars but contacted each owner here first because I did not want them to feel like I was airing their laundry without their okay.

The amount offered, unsolicited was staggering to me because I knew that my hopes of acquiring one was gone. I was priced out of the market. I actually called on Roy's white one. Spoke to him direct. The Countach that I believe Rhyno bought was gone in what seemed like an instant. I should have acted sooner but I know one thing and that was the rhetoric I was reading about the Anniversary being a $90,000 car was absolute b.s. I was quoted a price between $145-150 for that car and I too like Rhyno thought "Wow, isn't that a lot of money for this car when a few people on the forum are still saying that there are all of these Anni's available. It was just not true. It was so frusterating.

The Anniversary Countach is now in the $200's and going higher. My friends car is absolutely exquisite and worthy of the money that he was offered. He turned it down without hesitation because he, like I, know where these cars are heading and that is much, much higher. As a reference point, the money my F Chat friend was offered was higher than Canepa's asking price and that is verified. Hopefully, he will chime in if he wants too.

I didn't mean to sound snarky in some of my recent posts and I apologize if I came off that way but some of you gave me a hard time when I was trying to tell you that the prices were soaring and the Anni's were moving like a locomotive. I personally believe that Roy was misinformed as well. The quick sale in an instant of that Anni to Rhyno told me I was right. He actually under priced that car. Yet he was coming on here proclaiming a ceiling of $145K.

Lastly I want to reiterate the number 100. Because I believe that is a good inventory of how many Anniversary's are left in the USA. I would like to hear how many Joe and Roy have shipped out of the USA just in the last two years alone and the production number of 177 originally shipped to the USA in 89/90 because there are still some that believe erroneously that there are 657 of these cars available here in the USA. That is absolutely not true and NEVER was.

I believe Roy will get his money in the 2's for his 89 Countach. I have a 430 and a 512 TR both of which I like very much neither of which I love. The Anniversary for me will be but a dream...

Lesson learned: pull the trigger fast when you find a good one because there aren't many left.

Rhyno, if you or Roy could post a few pics of your car I would appreciate it.

 

Roy you eat bacon not ramen noodles? You nasty carnivorous pig you. lol

You haven't had good ramen until you've had my wife's ramen noodle creations.

Roy bought that white/tan one last summer and bought it well. The next owner will have a good car to drive and enjoy so what if he has to spend a few bucks more than what Roy has into it. Glad to see people making money these days.

 

Recent Anniversary Figures in USA:
John Scotti $205K
Joe Sackey's $220K
Canepa $225K

Interesting to note that Frank Kerbeck, owner of FC Kerbeck, was offered $225K ONE YEAR AGO for one of the two USA Anniversary Countachs that he has had in storage since new and turned it down.

Wonder were we will be in 5 years....

 

In 5 years we'll be typing the same ol stuff we're typing today with a different $ amount.

If you look at 5 years ago you'll see the same old conversation as we have today the only thing that has changed is the $ amount.

Like Larry stated the real enthusiast will not care about the money. Thank goodness for that.

 

FTanner I was dealing with Roy already on the white/cream Anni when he had the white/white car pop up. There were a few other buyers very interested so I wanted to close as fast as possible so I would't lose my dream car! I was just really lucky to be in the right place at the right time and that's how I purchased my baby! Also I should say that Roy got offered more money then what I paid but my deal was done and he had to turn down the bigger offer, that showed me right there that Roy is a stand up guy and true to his word. I did contact another big player in the Countach world about buying a Anni when I was in the market. That player was on vacation and said he would get back to me the following week, that never happened so he missed out on a sale and if I need to add to my collection in the future I probably won't go to him. I guess you can tell which side of the fence I'm on lol

 

FTanner, if you want to see pictures of my Countach you can see them on the other forum. I'm over my limit for posting pictures here.

 

Nice post....

-mick

 

430 + 512 TR = Countach? Or am I way off?