Porosity Oil Leak in Block | FerrariChat

Porosity Oil Leak in Block

Discussion in '348/355' started by vdettore, Sep 15, 2017.

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  1. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
    353
    Georgia Coast
    Full Name:
    Vince
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login So I replaced the starter today in my 90' 348 which was easy. Cranked her up and after a few minutes idling I noticed a drip under the right side of engine toward the front ( I just got the car back from a major - long story).
    After putting it up on jack stands I got underneath while the engine was running. It appears that a small amount of oil is coming through the lower block right side. The leak stops when I turn the car off. There are no visible cracks, pin hole...nothing! I even used a magnifying glass with a bright light. Nothing.

    I cranked it back up got under and the leak started again. Just a slow amount of oil coming out enough to make about a drip every 3-4 seconds. The area is just a few mm's in length if I were to guess. I kept wiping the oil off with a rag and looking through the magnifying glass and no stress crack, or anything visible.

    I've got a friend coming to double check behind me in the next couple of days.

    I found nothing on F Chat on this type of leak. I did find this type of leak on some Corvette LS engines (04'- 11') and on some Honda engines. Also some racing engines. Fixes ranged from Honda's solution of JB Weld, to pinning (cold repair method) to welding/brazing ( hot repair method). Others searches also found high temp epoxy.

    Has anyone heard of this type of leak and what are my options? Of course my worst fear is nothing works and I have to ditch the engine ( ughhhhh).

    Thanks for any help

    Vince
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    You take a punch, and punch that area until it is sealed. That is how you fix it. Or you tig weld it.
     
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  3. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
    353
    Georgia Coast
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    Vince
    For a small crack as I am dealing with what size punch would you use and how do I do it! Punch while engine is off or running and assuming a gentle to moderate tap. Thanks for the reply.
     
  4. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Grant
    Good call Mitchel
     
  5. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,429
    Montreal
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    Tony
    ditch the engine for an oil leak..?

    the leak looks to be coming from between the oil pan and the block.. where the seal broke at that spot..
    not sure welding the spot would be a good idea..?

    I assume would require removing the oil pan and resealing it.. which I understand is a big job..
     
  6. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
    328
    Ottawa ON
    Full Name:
    Sandy
    Porosity??? I'm somewhat blind... but... that area is right beside the large oil pipe connection. You state the car had just been through a major. Did someone possibly SLIP with a wrench? I can't see the photo real clear, but is that not possibly marked(where the oil is dripping), perhaps from some huge wrench slipping off the large oil pipe nut.... or maybe from an earlier major, and with time there is no obvious mark anymore? (discolored after time?)
    I'd be trying absolutely anything suggested, before ditching that engine.
     
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  7. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Yes, to me, it looks like the pan sealant is leaking. That it back to the shop that just finished the work. I highly doubt you have a leak from porosity. Did it leak at the same area prior to service? My guess is no.
     
  8. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
    353
    Georgia Coast
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    Vince
    Yeah I'm over reacting with the ditching the engine thing. I'll be trying everything I can to stop the leak. I have never seen a leak appear to come through an area that was not a seal or gasket.
    Thanks for noticing that the area is where the leak is is close to a connector and where a slipped Wrench mound have caused the problem.
    I'll report back when I get it fixed.

    Thanks all.
     
  9. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
    353
    Georgia Coast
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    Vince
    I don't think it was leaking from that area. Although there were a lot of leaks so I could have missed it. I'll be in touch with the shop after they open back up. I live in an area that was affected by Hurricane Irma and we are still cleaning up.
     
  10. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    If you do find a leak in the aluminum, personally I would use JB weld. I would not TIG weld with motor assembled.
     
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  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,288
    socal
    I have never seen that on 348 castings. I have seen casting failure that mixed clutch fluid with tranny. I would investigate this for a permenant repair. If you don't want to tig it you can oxy or mapp gas it.
    https://www.muggyweld.com/product/super-alloy-5/

    The stuff the guys use on aluminum radiator repair is awesome. I had a guy at the race track fix my 348 radiator were it met the plastic header and he did not melt the header!
    http://www.durafix.com/

    Brazed joints don't come apart like epoxy products. But of course brazing is more difficult to do. I used to silver braze race bike frames together and you get good at it with little practice.
     
  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Grant
    As Dave said jbweld works very good for leaks like that.
     
  13. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    Yeah, Muggyweld, hts2000, blue demon or any other low temp zinc-alum brazing rod. some need flux
    Only issue is when you heat the oil it gasses and makes the weld not attach so well. Unless you can get the oil to stop bleeding.
    Clean welds work best




    JB you can clean the block really well and get a great adhesion


    Pros cons of those fixes
     
  14. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
    6,486
    Lake Villa IL
    Are you entirely sure this is from the block casting and not the pan/block interface? So far I'm not convinced. :)
     
  15. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Vince
    I'm going to look at it one more time in the morning to make sure and will try and video the leak. Someone mentioned using a punch to tap the area to try and close the hole. I'll try that first. If that doesn't work then I'll try the JB Weld route. Either way I'll post the results. Thanks all.
     
  16. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    The idea with the punch is to deform the aluminum in hopes to stop the leak. I would be 100% sure of the leak source before you try this.
     
  17. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Vince
    It looks like the leak is actually a fracture ( 1/8" from end to end shaped like a quarter moon - see pics). Does not seems to be a porosity leak. I plan on preparing the area by cleaning with some type of acetone or degreaser, then rough up the area with either a grinder on a dremel or a wire brush on a drill. Reclean the area then JB weld it.

    I ran the engine for 10 minutes and have some ideling/backfiring issues I need help/advise and don't know where to start. I believe I should create a new thread not too confuse this one.

    Last, I did just get my car back from a private shop that performed the major. I prefer not to take it back to them and will sort out the remaining issues myself. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    That sounds like a good plan to me :) Rubbing alcohol will clean the area well too (or even lacquer thinner)
     
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  19. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    What all the white crap oozing out? I presume sealant. Bothers me. If there is that much oozing out on the outside, what's on the inside? And you would have thought they would have at least removed the excess on the outside. After all, it's a Ferrari, not a Honda.

    Now, is it back firing or just missing a beat now and then?
     
  20. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Back Firing. I mean really back firing!
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    In the late 80's there was a famously respected Ferrari tech in LosAngeles who was the king of black RTV . LOL! I agree with John. I would drop the pan and clean it. Clean the crack drive the oil out of it and weld it or braze it. Many don't like welding because of possible bearing damage but that can be avoided by having the electrical paths correct. And the weld would take a second so not a big deal.
     
  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    I cannot say who did what at time point, but seeing a small ding on that ridge next to the leak leads me to think someone may have mis-jacked that engine. The amount of white ooze leads me to believe the shop is not careful with the amount of sealant they use. That is really too much ooze.

    If it were my engine, I would drive it to a good Tig welder....
     
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  23. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Vince
    Decided to have the car picked up and repaired at Ferrari of Atlanta.
     
  24. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
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    Vince
    I Never closed the loop on this post. The leak was corrected by FOA tearing the engine down and repairing the correct way from the inside. $9k for the repair but done right


    Vince FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  25. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 31, 2006
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    Wow, sorry to hear how extensive this became. But glad to hear that it's finally sorted.

    Did FoA give any thoughts on the cause? Anytime time there's "something new" its resolution can benefit the 348 community.
     

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