road-going 'ALLOY' 365 GTB/4 Daytona - barn find

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Makuono, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. I have started the new week 1 FerrariChat Update poll, please vote... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ferrarichat-com-update-week-1-poll.560487/
  1. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
    Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
    I've watched sea beams glittering in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.
    All those moments will be lost in time.
    Like tears... in rain."

    Such is the lament of Roy Batty at the end of Blade Runner.

    In a parallel and very real way, due to the allocation of scarce economic resources... your statement is correct.
    In fact, you will be hard-pressed to find any links from 2004 Fchat that still work.
     
  2. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    If HarperSimon is right, wouldn't it be a five minute job to see which body panels a magnet sticks to? I remember when lance Reventlow was tipped off a dealer had an alloy 300SL gullwing on the lot, he was eager to go see it and was told "bring a magnet."

    Or is the allegation the steel body panels were replaced sometime later with alloy?

    I would like to know why the last owner kept it hidden for 37 years and what circumstances led to its being retrieved and scheduled for auction? Did the last owner die?
     
  3. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
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    12653 69/jun

    Ferrari 365 GTB/4, alloy
    Rosso Chiaro (20-R-190) over a Nero (VM 8500)



    Date Result Event Driver # Reference
    69/sep - Motor S.p.A. di Carla Allegretti
    69/oct - Luciano Conti, I (autosprint publisher)
    70/sep - Guido Maran, Verona, I
    70/oct - Carlo Ferruzzi, Ravenna, I
    71/jul - ................, J
    72/jan - featured in Car Graphic
    75/may - Goro Guwa, Gifu, Japan
    79/apr -Tateo Ito, Nagoya, J
    80/... - Makoto Takai J

    2017/sep/09 - RM Sotheby's Ferrari – Leggenda e Passione
    Lot 126 - Est. €1.400.000 - €1.700.000
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #54 miurasv, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
    "Please note that after the auction, this car needs to remain in Maranello to complete the certification process."

    Does the above note at the end of the RM Sotheby's description of the car mean that bids are only accepted on the basis that the car be Classiche certified after the auction and that the winning bidder will be responsible for the cost of completing the certification process and all that entails such as remedying any non original specification or will it be the responsibility of the current owner?
     
  5. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    Good catch, good question.
    Very interesting line of inquiry.
     
  6. moriaan1

    moriaan1 Formula 3
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    Ferrari is gaining control of their classic heritage with one purpose... Profit!

    Suddenly they are interested in the heritage they neglected for decades.
    The worst part? They are ruining a market that kept their heritage alive and simply push them out of business.

    Solid cars with a good heritage don't need a certification, they are what they are with or without a red book!
     
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  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    Incomplete.

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    For certain.
     
  10. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    Actually, the steering wheel does look correct. I may be wrong, but it is very similar to mine, 44319.
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Thanks. I'm sure you mean your car chassis number is 14319. Do you have a picture of the wheel?
     
  12. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    Yes, will check.
     
  13. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    To me, the redeeming qualities of this piece are the alloy body and the photographs, which are breathtaking. Personally, I would not touch it with a ten foot pole. Time in one's life is the most valuable commodity, and I could see 12653 commanding a lot of it. It would definitely be a pure labor of love to bring it back to its glory days, thus wiping out its history. Can't wait to see the selling price and what the new owner creates of it.
     
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  15. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    #63 juliei, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here you go...
    IMG_0877.jpg
     
  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Yes, it would be good to see what the new owner makes of it and other Ferrari barn finds. What happened to the ex Alain Delon 250 GT SWB California Spyder 2935GT after it was sold at auction in 2015?
     
  17. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    Mine doesn't look much like the one in the barn find. :)
     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #66 miurasv, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks again. Compare.
    Screenshot (2010).jpg
    daytonaalloyabarthstwheel.jpg
    14319stwheel.jpg
     
  19. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Though, latter may not be fully up to the new owner, as demonstrated by some one confirming my initial suspicions about prerequisite "Factory" post-sale certification, which may include (require ?) Classiche orchestrated restoration.
     
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #68 miurasv, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  21. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Anyone ever figure out the weight savings of the alloy body?
     
  22. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    Yes, I did. No comparison.
     
  23. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    On a road going Daytona with everything else remaining standard construction, I'm guessing overall weight savings wouldn't be that significant.
    100-200 lbs, if even that much.
     
  24. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    Well produced video--always good to see gentleman Marcel. Can't wait to see the auction and am glad it isn't during the Clemson/Auburn game.
     
  25. juliei

    juliei Formula Junior
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    Yes, 14319--not 44319.
     
  26. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #74 miurasv, Sep 8, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
    I wonder what the story is behind why this car, 12653, is the only standard specification road going alloy bodied Daytona built? Of the Daytona's predecessor, the 275 GTB, depending on which book you read, there were between 60 and 80 non competizione alloy road cars made so why only one alloy road Daytona? 6 alloy bodied Competizione Daytonas made too. 1 in 1969, 12547, and the other 5 in 1971.

    It doesn't sound like it was ordered by a customer as it's stated that it was for sale at a dealership for a month before being sold to its first owner. Nor does it sound like it was an experimental car. Does anyone know why it's the only one and if there is actually a reason for that????
     
  27. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Maybe email "monkeys" and "grinders" at the auction company for... no response ?
     
  28. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    I speculate in print (in an upcoming article) that it was a political decision. Figure it this way. Enzo had already had his hand slapped by the FIA in previous decisions (such as not homologating the 250LM when it first came out). Who is in a position to know what the FIA is announcing next? The press. The first customer for the car, Mr. Conti, was the publisher of an important car racing magazine. He would be the first to know if the FIA was about to announce a decision that would affect Ferrari's racing future. Even to get one day's notice in advance would allow Enzo to come up with a counter strategy, so having the body panels of just one Daytona coupe made in alloy so the publisher would have something special to brag about was a small price to pay if he gets the right tip at the right time.
     
  29. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #77 miurasv, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
    The above would only be true if EF had built this alloy bodied car specially for Mr Conti, but it clearly wasn't built for him, as the car was distributed for retail to the Bologna dealer Motor S.p.A. di Carla Allegretti, where anyone could have bought it, but where Mr Conti bought it later in the month.
     
  30. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Hammered sold at 1,600,000 Euros plus BP.
     
  31. sperry

    sperry Karting

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    Just hammered at 1.6 million euros, not including buyer's premium.
     
  32. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #80 miurasv, Sep 9, 2017
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    They said at the auction that the seller would be responsible for the Classiche Certification.
     
  33. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Rookie
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    I thought I heard the seller was not obligated to do it, or restore at Ferrari.
     
  34. miurasv

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    #82 miurasv, Sep 9, 2017
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    I may have misheard then but I thought the seller was responsible for the Classiche Certification which I took to mean that if anything was needed for it to be as it left the factory specification wise to pass and get the Red Book then it would be down to the seller. The seller would not be responsible for restoration of the car. I believe the car has been offered beyond the certification as normal for the buyer to do with as they please as a restoration project or to be left as is and to be shown at Concours in the Preservation Class.
     
  35. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Bonkers. 1.6m + buyers fees. Then god knows how much at Classiche...another 300k?. Then import duties.

    And all of that in the face of prices slowly but steadily declining on "normal" 365GTB/4's.

    To me that's nuts. On the other hand, I always admire people who are willing to lose money on cars out of love for them. :)
     
  36. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    That car is money as long as folks continue to value things w/internal combustion engines. And, if/when "normal" Daytona's cease to matter - this one, since there is only one, may still ...
     
  37. TTR

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    Well, not really. Especially if the final bid came from C, M, S or S, all commonly known to attend, bid and at times even win auctions, but I hope to be proven wrong. ;)
     
  38. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    The seller will be responsible for the Classiche Certification and all the costs of it. See video at about 1 hour 50 mins here:

    For a car to be Classiche Certified it has to be in full working order so the seller is going to be responsible for a lot of work as many things surely will need replacing or attended to to make this car fully functional.
     
  39. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Rookie
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    #87 sixcarbs, Sep 10, 2017
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    I actually think this car was one of the best values in the whole auction.

    I am dumbfounded when I see people paying $1 million for 488's who's only distinguiishing feature is color and production sequence number.

    This is truly a unique car.

    (I need to watch that clip again to see what I was said about certification.)

    But why even get it certified? Everyone knows what it is. It was sold at a Ferrari auction with that description. Off to Patrick Ottis and Perfect Reflections and you are all set.
     
  40. till.a.fischer

    till.a.fischer Karting

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    Great car and photos.

    There seems to be consensus regarding barn-find-photos:
    Dirt and rust are appreciated but deflated tires are off-limits.
     
  41. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    I think that the car was being offered with new Classiche Certification after the sale to the new owner, which means that it will have to be made up to full working order, would make it more attractive to most buyers. It may not have achieved quite such a high price had the Certification not been offered.
     

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