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Discussion in 'F1' started by freshmeat, Feb 26, 2013.
Ho ho ho, lets rock n roll.
I actually heard Honda already has an engine. Honda/Mclaren anyone?
+ the old livery. oh that would be beautiful.
I believe the old livery was more of a Marlboro | McLaren thing, but yes, it is beautiful by most of today's cars on the grid.
Given the relationship between Macca and Merc these days...
Honda/McLaren does make a lot of sense...
Interesting for the memories but will the Honda engine be any good, how good was it when the team was still around?
It's been 20+ years since they had a successful run with McLaren and Williams.
They already make a turbo V6 for Indy Car. And while this would be completely different, I'm sure they can glean information and learn from what they've done with that platform.
Hopefully they do. Engine supplier may be the right angle for Honda in F1 as long as they keep Mugen out of the picture.
Times change but in the day they were as good as it got.
They certainly did some good motors over the years.
In fact, seems to me the 'big guys' make much better engine suppliers than team owners.....
Fer sure, Ron would love to have Honda back in the game. I believe he's gotta pay Merc next (this?) year....... I guess Honda would come for free.....
Not sure Button would be too enthusiastic
Help me out here.
Weren't they trying to squeeze the big automakers out of F1 not so long ago?
Are they planning on putting a V6 into the new NSX? Perhaps they can justify the venture by saying it is based on that power-plant?
Good. As I've been saying for AGES, Mercedes should pull the rug out from McLaren if they're serious about championships.
You da man, I partially agree with you.
Just like Ferrari enjoy having customer engines for R&D, Mercedes enjoy it to a certain extent as well. However, I do not think they need to power their primary competition such as Mclaren, Force India though is of course fine the same as the Ferrari/Sauber relationship.
Definitely agree. I think supplying FI is fine but supplying a big rival and perennially fast team with your own engine doesn't make sense to me. Also, any advantage MB gets for 2014 will be gone for 2015 as by then the customers will have experience with the engine and will be able to "design their car around it" like MB plans to do for 2014. Better to sever ties now...
I follow the logic but its " in the interest of F1" to have a viable McLaren team and in the interest of MB to keep F1 happy.
If MB didn't provide motors to Macca Renault would. Better for MB to have its name on a potential WC car than not.
I also look at this as Mercedes' very first occasion since the '50s to build a 100% for-Mercedes car. Merc has had their new unit running and on the dyno forever now so they should already be knee deep with 2014 car development. Exciting stuff
Define "they"....... I don't think we'll ever hear the "true" stories. But, my take is Mad Max didn't like their "power" and they certainly didn't like his ridiculous "budget cap" proposals ($30MM! ). That was why BMW quit IMO. The Japanese two blamed the economy but I still reckon they got tired of outspending everyone and getting no where - They quit with their tales between their legs IMO.
I don't think, but again could be wrong, that Bernie wanted them gone though. He may have pissed 'em off (who hasn't he pissed off over the years?) by not giving them "preferential" treatment, but I don't think he's the reason they took their ball and went home.....
As I recall Bernie wasn't thrilled with having equals at his table.
You may be right. But, if we believe the Prof (and I do), he's *always* ahead of the game. I'm just not convinced that he couldn't "manage" these huge egos as well as he manages the Garagistes.
It's his dance.
They would need just to change the sponsorship from Vodafone to British American Tobacco then ...
He managed Honda, Toyota, Renault and BMW out of the sport.
You *may* be right.
Personally, I don't think so though. I'm going with Krafty on this one - That was down to the lunatic, not Bernie IMO.
Given Sutil, MB apprived, has been chosen for FI's seat with a 5 million sponsorship, that could hint at the team keeping their MB engines rather than switching to Ferrari as was rumored. Did MB finance the operation because they know they'll lose an illustrious customer next year?
And Ferrari in search of a third team to supply looks a bit in trouble. Will they end up talking to Marussia?
Oft the fool does the king's bidding.
Hahaha you cannot go far wrong blaming that cretin.
He nearly brought F1 to it's knees, the threat of a breakaway series made Bernie sit up and listen in the end, ok knuckle head times up get stuffed and good riddance.
I'am not denying that, but I could not believe he could defend his actions in that Chelsea flat.
I'm fairly certain that Bernie had no prior knowledge of that.
Max was/is a feckless SOB, but was of use. For a while.
Well IIRC even the cretin himself was warned he was being followed, but as usual the pig headed nature of him thought he was untouchable.
Handing out 100 mil fines isn't the best way to make friends..
Back on topic, I hope Honda go for it, I rate their engines.
IIRC, Honda had one of the most powerful motors back in the V10 days. The rest of the car is what sucked.
The chasis must have really sucked to land those performances with a good engine under the hood...
Honda's turbo V6 got waxed by the Chevy in Indycar last year.
Maybe Chevy will join the party!.......
I could see Marussia Chevy F1 next year... Good russian - american partnership.
That would be epic! lol
With only 3 confirmed engine manufacturers next year, and Renault's intention to have less teams, there could be a shortage of engines in 2014.
Marussia is already indicating the team is looking for a new supplier, speculating that Cosworth isn't going to bother designing a new engine just for one client. There could be more teams in that situation.
In the past, developing a 1500cc turbo for F1 wasn't so complicated, and many went the 4 cylinder route, just using production-based engine to power F1; BMW, Hart, Zakspeed went that way.
But since the FIA has imposed a V6 configuration, it's almost impossible for a "back-street" motorist to create a F1 engine from scratch.
I'm pretty sure it's worse than that; Cosworth are almost definitely out - As you say, why do an engine for just a solitary backmarker team?
Not surprisingly Pollocks PURE nonsense never got off the drawing board. [Many here know my feelings towards him ]
So, unless Honda (or chevy! ) do jump in there could indeed be an "issue"....... However, I'm nearly 100% certain this is where Bernie will work his magic and they'll have motors come the start of the season.
Well, they're dropping out of WTCC after taking the championship last year...
What happened to all these grand new regulations enticing so many new manufacturers to enter the sport and make engines? Now we're talking about a shortage. LOL.
I don't see how a credible effort can be launched at this late date. I also wonder how feasible it is for existing manufacturers to ramp up production (and maybe more importantly support) for additional teams.
Any team without an engine to design around at this point is on the back foot.
This may be a problem unresponsive to Bernie bucks.
"Where there's a will, there's a way."......
I've kinda disagreed with this thinking since day one!.... The mounting points, CofG and so on are already public knowledge; Design your car and simply hang the motor on the back when you get it. I really don't think this whole "integrated design" thing is significant. You may have a little struggle with your 'box, but in that case buy one from someone else who's using the same motor.
Don't think it's Bernie money, but rather his ability to get 'em to do what he wants. I don't recall there's ever been anyone who's failed to make it due to not having a powerplant (?)
Back to the issue of mounting a last minute effort to have another manufacturer
for 2014, what if Honda is really working on this? If so, since when would they be
working on? The last news when Pure went south was in July 2012. I don't remember
reading what happened to their assets, but there is an interesting gap from there
to the speculative news that Gilles Simon is now working in another effort. That's
almost 8 months.
It would great if Honda were to reenter F1. Marussia is already looking since they
don't have anything for next year, but McLaren will certainly also be interested.
What the sport needs is for McLaren to make its own motors. Until then they will be an incomplete team never of the same echelon as Ferrari.
I would imagine the high costs involved have put the idea on hold.
Macca poor mouthing it?
They'll always be second string bush league until they prove that they can build their own lump.