I think that the likelyhood of Peter and Eric openly discussing their special projects on FCHAT is zero especially as Ferrari's SP contracts expressly forbid any publicity or display at Auto Shows without Ferrari's permission. That door shut after Ferrari P 4/5 by pininfarina was exhibited at the Paris Auto Show by Pininfarina. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
what a cool idea, Ferrari based or not is semantic argument and pointless IMO, let's just enjoy vicariously something we'd all long to do as gear heads, build our own car! i've long desired more compact light weight sports cars, if i had simiar resources i'd love to make a modern TZ2 i've been designing (not anything like the TZ3 which was made) few cars now are true milestones, with all the current design knowledge and tech available, what a wonder that could be made, i for one am looking forward to what comes as P33!
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/288gto-f40-f50-enzo-laferrari/1674861d1363385956-p-33-jims-work-computer-1396.jpg Even un-finished the P 4/5 is so much prettier then the Enzo. Napolis, Are you able to say how the Enzo and P 4/5 compared aerodynamically? Thanks.
You have to ask him. I like and admire him a lot and sold him the Enzo parts we no longer needed from our Ferrari P 4/5 by pininfarina project which he used to rebuild his LSR TT Enzo.
P 4/5 has twice the downforce of an Enzo and it's downforce is nicely centered on the Y axis which on the Enzo it's not. It's exits are sufficient for its inlets and air does not revert out of it's inlets due to insufficient exits. P 4/5 Competizione has twice the downforce of Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina largely due to the wing.
Sounds great a project like P 33. I'm looking forward to see the progress of it. Nice decision Mr G !
Don't think so. Compare the 0-300 kph times between P 4/5 and Enzo. Enzo was designed for acceleration which is far more important than downforce in a supercar for the street. That was a significant client request and design goal for Enzo and LaFerrari.
Jim, Congratulations on your new project. Hopefully we will follow some of your development along the way. Good for you and your team.
More exit lowers drag. If the entrance air can't flow through easily it backs up, reverts and causes huge drag. Note the photo I posted of the air flow that couldn't flow cleanly through the Enzo nose inlet backing up, separating and becoming a drag cloud. You're assuming road P 4/5 is slower 0-300kph. I'm not sure than it is. It's much lighter than an Enzo, has more HP and is faster 0-100 KPH. It also has driver controllable DRS which could be used 0-300kph. Either way I see 0-100kph mattering on the street but frankly 0-300kph isn't something many Enzo owners ever experience much less on the street. The point relevant to P 33 is deciding what's important on a road car and no question we're thinking much more of a classic sportscar than a Hypercar monster. (Which you and others may prefer) Conceptually P 33 will be a lot closer to a 288 GTO or a Comp 206S Dino than La Ferrari. Performance wise hp/lb it will be very close to a P 4 with a much better chassis and a lot more torque.
P4/5 has the original VIN of the donor Enzo so could be kind of fine in this section as a rebuilt Enzo. Not big trouble anyway if moderators decide to keep it in a different section. But P 33 clearly doesn't belong in this section unless Mr. G. advances clear intention to base it off the platform of one of the following: 288GTO [...] LaFerrari. Not that I mind reading here about this project but clearly this is not going to be a Ferrari car.
As I've said in a different thread, custom designed cars are a venture worth supporting. This will clearly be an epic project as was the P4/5. I will be watching its' progress with great anticipation. None the less, it doesn't belong in this section. I think it's here frankly because Jim G. is an expert guerrilla marketer and will flog the popularity of this section, as seen with the new La Ferrari, to get any and all attention he can. Lets face it, there seems to be an axe to grind and what better way than to capitalize off all the added press in this section? I just personally feel its wrong that Rob goes to great lengths to bash recreations such as when someone posted a GTO conversion in the 308 section but Jim's threads are left as is. To me it seems like there are two sets of rules but it's his bat and ball. When all is said and done if the P33 ends up wearing a Ferrari badge backed by the factory then it should be moved back to here. Up until that point it's a recreation/custom car no different than Zausners 550 powered roadster and should be in its' own/different section.
Jim: Congratulations on your new project. Thanks for sharing with us. It will be great to follow what development you can share as time progresses. Sounds like the Pope is the Pope and Luca is God. PNH
Does it really matter what section of the forum it's filed under? I mean, this forum has a whole section dedicated to other marques and nobody has a cow about it. Where else are we going to get detailed insight into the building of a new sports car from the ground up? We're addicts and Napolis is the pusher. Can't you just let us get our fix in peace?
Added press in this section? Firstly the P 4/5 C thread got a few views in another section, our FB site has 5MM people who see our posts which is more than see them in this section and as we're not selling anything I'm not sure that you can call it marketing. I put P33 here because it's about supercars and the direction they may head. When I took Ferrari P 4/5 by pininfarina to the factory and spoke to the then CEO about the next Enzo both of us agreed that lighter, smaller, simpler was the way to go. Luca came back, JT left and the Mille Kilo became La Ferrari. Frankly why anyone would care where I put this thread is beyond me. I'm much more interested in discussing the future of Hypercars and the direction that the F80 may take than posts like yours. P 33 is about the future direction of cars like P1, La Ferrari, and 918. Porsche's next Supercar is already moving in the direction I'm headed. Simpler/lighter. I bet the F80 does as well. Enzo himself loved and understood the Dino and that's what P 33 is. That's what this thread is about and it has a lot to do with Ferrari Supercars what they were, what they are and what they will be. If Rob wants to move this thread he will but you thinking that you should tell him what he should do is ridiculous.
Your picture shows the growth in size and dimensions of Ferrari cars over the years. Part of that growth was due to the fact that all cars got bigger. Ferrari's got bigger due to the demands that owners made to have more useable trunk space and a larger cockpit. I think LDM wanted the cars to be capable of taking the owner and his passenger guest on a romantic weekend trip! Anyway it seems that now the size is headed the other way--smaller. LaFerrari is smaller than the Enzo both ways: exterior and interior. And it sounds like your next car is going to be smaller too. Smaller automatically reduces weight and aero demands. IMO part of the reason the 911s had been competitive on the track, smaller size.
+458 Either there are separate sections for a reason or there are not. This thread is put on here to gain more exposure, because let's face it-more people come here than in the 430, 458 sections or whatever the P33 will be based on. If it is based on a Ferrari model at all. Will the P33 be spectacular? I'm sure it will. Will we love it? Most likely. Will we admire and follow Jim's venture? Absolutely. But does it belong on here? NO WAY. By the same logic I can post a tuned up honda on here, because I may believe that in ten years the next Ferrari may have the same shape wing.
Ever since I first saw this picture, I've thought it represents what you are talking about very well: Image Unavailable, Please Login
Perfect representation. Funny how people get their panties in a bunch because of an extra thread in a section...feel free to not click the link, it being here will not impact your life, enjoy someone sharing an experience rather than locking it away like others. Life is good.
That is exactly what I'm talking about. Enzo understood this as did race organizers in the 60's. Think about the P4 vs The 206S. 4 liter/2 liter. Part of this new direction for me came about from driving my P 3/4 and my one off 206S on the Targa Florio. The P 3/4 was a lot harder to drive in the Sicilian mountains. Even driving on many European roads is a lot more enjoyable in a smaller car. On P 4/5 vs The Enzo we really tried to address this. We way shortened the front overhang vs the Enzo. IMO front overhang is the most important dimension on a car on the road. Cars with long front overhang are much harder to drive fast on twisty, bumpy roads. I don't understand why Ferrari didn't reduce it on La Ferrari. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login