Scuderia SSS Republica di Venezia Comte Volpi | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Scuderia SSS Republica di Venezia Comte Volpi

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 250gto, Nov 24, 2005.

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  1. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    Impressive work, gentlemen!! Thanks to Count Volpi for sharing his thoughts. Now I need to get a Scuderia Serenissima flag, I´m loving it! Does anybody have a high res pic of it?
     
  2. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #52 CDM, Apr 1, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    Ah, thanks. Don´t worry about copyrights, It´s just for personal enjoyment.
     
  4. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #54 CDM, Apr 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    2 April 2006

    Dear Gary,
    Here is my sketchy answer to the chat questions.
    Best,
    Giovanni


    I saw in the distance but never met Georges Filipinetti, and only met briefly once or twice his son who later committed suicide.
    My impression was that Filipinetti went into racing more for PR reasons (he was not the only one doing so) than a passion for cars.

    When I closed in 1970 the workshop at Formigine, halfway from Modena to Maranello, Alf Francis negotiated and implemented the takeover of the premises by Filipinetti. My connection stopped there.

    Jacques Swaters is one of the very rare gentlemen and royalty in the old Ferrari world. He was the dealer for Belgium, Netherlands, and Luxemburg since Maranello started selling, he knew Enzo Ferrari well and was realistic about him. Very close to Gerolamo Gardini (about whom there still is unjust factory silence), Maranello’s sales manager who ‘made’ Ferrari as much and no less than his boss.

    Swaters had a conscience, he was always fair play and of course a credible competitor. I have only good memories of him along with total respect.

    Never met John Mecom. De Tomaso knew him.

    We all thought Luigi Chinetti was Gardini’s twin. They both whispered when you were talking to them, to the point one had to often make them repeat. An anecdote tells that when one day the two ‘schemers’ went together to negotiate with a certain client, after having strained his ears for quite a while the client, annoyed and nonplussed, threw them both out of his office not having understood a word of what they were saying and meant with their mumbling.

    Chinetti and Gardini understood each other perfectly and Chinetti always implemented Gardini’s policy aimed at creating a fever about the cars and controlling with an iron hand the second-hand market, which was not so easy at the time. A used car was an old car. Never a collector’s item, as I said in a previous chat.

    Chinetti invented NART out of a relatively small garage on Manhattan’s 10th avenue, if I remember. The main purpose of NART was marketing in the US, and in so doing Chinetti provided amateur clients with cars they bought tied to a sure entry into races such as Sebring, Le Mans and minor US contests. Along with that Chinetti has some kind of first-refusal on Ferrari team cars of the previous year and was sometimes loaned same-year cars for ‘discoveries’ such as the Rodriguez brothers, the formidable Dan Gurney and other American continent drivers. It was also a way for Maranello to field more cars at low cost.

    Chinetti and I somewhat collided at Sebring 1960. He had entered in GT the swb Californias. Shortening wheelbase makes a new car and only a few had been made. We made them go into ‘sports’ (later prototype) category. Chinetti was hopping mad the cheating had gone wrong, mainly because, I think,
    the swbs were driven by slow clients who had been almost guaranteed to win the class. We got it, instead, with my personal steel bodied lwb California (car 16) driven by Scarlatti-Serena-Abate (Abate’s lwb berlinetta dnf) on Firestone normal road tires made of cheese, bought in a hurry at the local dealer, which we had to change every very few laps. I don’t remember, but I think the swbs came in behind us. This little episode is longer and quite funny also in its consequences but there is not enough space here.

    Anyhow, Chinetti was a pillar of Ferrari. It was the slow rich clients and their many crowding friends in the pits who made NART look strange at time. That was in the late ‘50s and ‘60s.
    ----------------
    Gary speaking: below are photos of some people mentioned above
    Abate with flowers
    Scarlatti w/TRi 1961
    Serena at Sebring in #16 1960 LWB California
    Dan Gurney, Targa 1963
    Count Volpi circa 1961 mounting an F100F two-seat Super Sabre at Aviano Air Base, Italy.
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  5. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    The Gurney in the Porsche photo is fantastic!
     
  6. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #56 CDM, Apr 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. R33

    R33 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    982
    Kent,UK
    Full Name:
    Paul Creed
    #57 R33, Apr 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller

    I have owned about 15 Alfa 102s or 106s in my lifetime, but I have not had one in about 7 or 8 years...
     
  9. eurperules

    eurperules Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2005
    617
    belgium
    Full Name:
    stijn quintyn
    wonderfull
    makes me proud to be belgian!

    thank you for sharing these thoughts.
    most interesting point of view on (imo) the most interesting race scene of them all.

    care on telling us some more interesting side notes on mr Bizzarrini and his development on the 'breadvan'?

    once again, thank you for these most interesting insights
     
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739

    Breadvan 2819 GT now belongs to a German dealer in Wuppertal.
    Marcel Massini
     
  11. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #61 CDM, Apr 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
     
  12. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    23,988
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    Does the Count still own any Ferraris?
     
  13. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #63 CDM, Apr 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was surprised to learn he does not own any cars. Not even a current model car of any kind.

    The many Ferrari cars he raced were sold through a broker after a few races. He usually got about what he paid for the 250 SWB and GTO cars after he used them for a few races.

    He sold the Breadvan for $2,500. Yep, that's right, $2,500. The Breadvan was a re-bodied 1961 250 SWB, which probably cost not more than $4,000 brand new.

    No one, at the time, had any idea these cars would become collector items.

    He once dumped a wrecked F1 Porsche in the trash as the expense to transport it home after the race was more than the value of the car.

    The one car he kept awhile for a daily driver and sold for the low six figures was the 1961 TRi, which won many races.

    Please Note: All photos are copy right Giovanni Volpi.

    The TRi photo in street dress was taken in 1977. Provo (Test) MO (Modena)
    The 1962 Sebring brochure is signed by Swede Joe Bonnier: "To Giovanni, Thanks for a nice car."
    Joe was Porsche werks driver in 1961, but also drove cars for GV. For instance, Joe drove a Birdcage Maserati for GV in the Gran Prix of Pescara in 1961.
    Bandini is shown racing the TRi.
    CDM at left in lawn chair at Gran Prix Pescara 1961. My flight suit got "lost" and I flew my USAF F100 back to Germany in civilian coat and tie, which caused a great flap back at base, followed by my now well rehearsed rug dance.
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  14. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    2,176
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    David Castelhano
    I was working for Peter Sachs in 1985 when he was trying to help Volpi sell the TRI61. Several people got close but I found it amazing that it was so difficult to find it a new home. I am not sure but I believe the late Stanley Nowak purchased it for Ralph Lauren about then but I do not believe that it was sold for low six figures.
     
  15. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    2,176
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    David Castelhano
    #65 Bertocchi, Apr 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #66 CDM, Apr 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A quote from by Bertocchi.

    "I was working for Peter Sachs in 1985 when he was trying to help Volpi sell the TRI61. Several people got close but I found it amazing that it was so difficult to find it a new home. I am not sure but I believe the late Stanley Nowak purchased it for Ralph Lauren about then but I do not believe that it was sold for low six figures."

    CDM email to Count Volpi:
    Giovanni,
    I understood you sold this car for $440,000, but assume that is confidential/personal information.
    Is is OK to say your sale price, or would you prefer to keep it confidential.
    Gary

    email reply from Count Volpi:
    I vaguely remember speaking to Sachs at some point but to no effect. 440 is correct. Don't mind telling it. Don't remember Nowak. What I remember is that both the Lauren people and Lauren himself, whom I met in Milan, besides not being able to tell the front end from the rear end of a car, could not make up their minds whether the TR was genuine or a fake. The reason, I suspect, being that it was in its usual 'bare bones' 'kick around' configuration and not shiny enough and laden with twenty coats of paint as it is now, transvested for some surreal car-show typical of those who make fakes - and they do exist, often helped by connivances going high up. I still wonder why Lauren bought it. As for the person who found Lauren, she is an old friend of mine who knew him quite well: Mimi Russell. At a cocktail party in NY, she had by chance overheard some Italians she knew (and I did not) discussing the car to my obvious disadvantage, got angry, and decided to thwart their game. Bravo, Mimi!

    Re. Photos: all copy right Giovanni Volpi
    I'm not sure these are the same TRi mentioned above.
    Some photos are labeled TRi 61 and some TR 2,which I believe was a second TR GV owned and raced.
    photo 1: Jackie Stewart
    photo 2: view from
    photo 3: Clermont race
    photo 4: Cary Grant (I think he is saying, Judy, Judy, Judy, there is no room to make love in there.)

    What I finding interesting about this era: Count Volpi owned and raced these cars and he alone owns those memories. RL comes along and throws paint and money at the car years later, then takes the bows at Pebble Beach like he'd actually done something. I guess that is the game today.
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  17. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    2,176
    Austin, Texas
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    David Castelhano
    Gary, Thank you for the insight. I don't consider $440K but that's me. I agree whole heartidly that the true "Car Guys" are not the owners of such cars. Garages with epoxy floors and flawless cars inside that never see the light of day have become the norm. Volpi made history!
     
  18. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

    Dec 20, 2003
    11,148
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Chris
    ^ I totally agree


    Ct. Volpi, thanks so much for all this insight. It is so cool to hear the stories of these cars from the [ex] owners themselves and thank you Gary for being the person that connects us all to him.


    Thank you again


    Chris
     
  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    23,988
    Portland, Oregon
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    Don
    Thanks so much for bringing Count Volpi into this discussion, Gary! And thanks to the Count, as well, for sharing his memories and his pictures!

    One more question: Did he ever drive these cars himself (not necessarily in competition), or was he strictly an owner? Did he drive them on the street?
     
  20. MJarrettR

    MJarrettR Formula 3

    Apr 14, 2004
    1,472
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Jarrett Rothmeier
    Thanks very much to you Gary for facilitating the conversation and especially to Count Volpi for sharing his memories and his photos. As a member of the younger generation (only 22 now) who was not able to experience these days first hand, it really is a treat to at least hear about them from those that were there. If only I had a time machine!!

    -Jarrett

    P.S. Also, all of the photos below are of 0792TR, do you know what year they were taken? Thanks
     
  21. Teenferrarifan

    Teenferrarifan F1 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2003
    3,098
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    Erik
    Count thanks for sharing! CDM what are the counts thoughts on the newer f-cars? Does he ever think about going out and either picking up a new or vintage one to remind him of the good old days?
    Erik
     
  22. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #72 CDM, Apr 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If memory serves, Giovanni did some racing in his youth, but as he was an only child, he promised his mother he would not race.

    I know he drove both the Breadvan and at least two TR for some time as street cars after their race careers were finished.

    He owned several 250 SWB at one time and loaned them to friends to drive to the airport etc at the conclusion of a race. At Pescara, I think Joe Bonnie took one of several 250 SWB cars GV has positioned there to catch a flight in Rome.

    He gave me a driving lesson in Italy in the 1961 250 SWB that later became the Breadvan. The car was brand new and GV insisted I shift up and down without touching the clutch. His purpose was to demonstrate how good the tranny was. A ZF if I recall, but not positive.

    I got back to my air base and told the story and guys were out trying to shift their Porsches and 190SL Benz without using the clutch. At the time, I had a Gull Wing with 12,000 miles and didn't have the courage to try it

    Below is a non-racing car accident Count Volpi survived. The photo label says TR 2l.

    I forgot to ask him, but I presume this Ferrari exists somewhere in the world today as a multi-million dollar TR. Or maybe it just went in the trash bin.
    .
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  23. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #73 CDM, Apr 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think I know his views but it is not for me to repeat. I will just note that he hasn't owned a Ferrari for many years.

    He does like lightweight cars and suggested I look into purchasing a Lotus Elise, which I did. It is difficult to appreciate all the benefits of a truly lightweight car (1900 lb.) until you've flogged one on the track.

    He gave me an appreciation for lightweight models, and to show I'm trainable, I purchased a Challenge Stradale. I can't drive it within 50% of its limits, but still it is fun to own.

    In another post, Count Volpi has said owning them is of little value to him now. What he has are the memories of being there, and doing it. ie he walked the walk, and while others now own the cars, they didn't have all those experiences in the sixties that he had.

    I constantly encourage him to write a book of his racing experiences. From conversation, I know that much of what's out there is either inaccurate, or there is at least another very interesting side of the story.

    He had many, many personal experiences with Enzo himself. When you see that Enzo office photo, think of young Giovanni sitting in that chair, about age 25 and going nose to nose with Enzo.
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  24. Teenferrarifan

    Teenferrarifan F1 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2003
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    Erik
    Very very cool!!! Thanks, and I can understand where he is coming from. How did you ever meet the count in the first place? Forgive me if you mentioned it before, but I didn't see it in reading this thread.
    Erik
     
  25. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    340
    #75 CDM, Apr 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In 1961, I was part of USAF Skyblazer jet aerobatic team. The Air Force had two teams at the time, The Thunderbirds and The Skyblazers, both flying airshows in the F100 Super Sabre.

    The Skyblazers flew an airshow at the 1961 Gran Prix of Germany at the Nurburgring. I met Count Volpi at the Nurburgrng and he wanted us to fly an airshow over Venice. I flew down to visit him in Venice to discuss the show site.

    The airshow never came about, but I did arrange for both Count Volpi and German Count Wolfgang "Taffy" von Tripps to have back seat rides in a two seat F100. Taffy was killed the following month at Monza in the 1961 Shark Nose F1 Ferrari 156. He and Phil Hill were close in drivers points and Hill went on to become World Champion in 1961.

    Photos: copy right Giovanni Volpi

    CDM and Jill Norinder, wife of Ulf Norinder, a wealthy Swede who owned his own F1 Porsche.
    Volpi suiting up for his F100F ride out of Aviano Air Base, Italy.
    Misurata 1, the Count's boat that picked me up in Venice (His title is Count Giovanni Volpi di Misurata)
    Taffy at Monte Carlo 1961 in Ferrari 156
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