The official replica/re-creation thread | Page 38 | FerrariChat

The official replica/re-creation thread

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by WILLIAM H, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,737
    Oh, I thought we kicked you out of Switzerland......
    As for the GTO driving experience I can tell you than one of them I drove on SWISS roads limited to 80 km/h. Swiss Fun?
    Marcel Massini
     
  2. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    48,581
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    50 mph? Hardly.
     
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,737
    Yes, correct, 50 mph. Believe it or not, there are still a few people out here who respect the rules.
    Marcel Massini
     
  4. fish78

    fish78 F1 Rookie

    Sep 10, 2004
    4,727
    Georgia
    This just a kernel of an idea, but I think it could work. As we have read here, most do not like the idea of GTEs and 330s being cut up to make replica GTOs, TRs etc. As I said, this is not a fully formed plan, but just an idea. Why not get some sanctioning body..FCA maybe? To start a registry for replicas, rebodies whatever you want to call them. Then Close the registry on a certain date...NO more to ever be added. Along with the registry some sort of certification...make one up...These cars can change hands freely and the certificate passes when they are sold...the new owner pays a fee to the register...pick a number...that money goes to a fund to restore other vintage cars...I see a couple of things happening...the value of the cars on the registry increases at each sale...no more to be added...a incentive to restore the other cars because of the fund and they also increase in value...at some point it becoms non feasible to create "new" replicas because they would not carry the certificate and the cost of a donor car would be beyond economic feasibility.


    I know its full of holes now, but by open planning the holes can be filled... constructive ideas are encouraged, but pissing and moaning and other non productive dialogue is discouraged. Face it, the replicas are here, they will never be returned to their original configuration, so lets figure out a way to make lemonade out of lemons. That is, if you really want to stop the butchering of vintage cars.
     
  5. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller

    Too many people wanting to pass off fake cars as real ones (and getting away with it), and not enough people who actually know the difference for this to work...
     
  6. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    Fortunately (or not, depending on your point of view) ....
    There are still a few of us who try to ensure that 'The Truth' (about various replicas) prevails in the public domain. ;)

    http://www.******.com/photos/9494364@N02/1278339305/ (That unmentionable f----r site). :D
     
  7. xs10shl

    xs10shl Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2003
    2,037
    San Francisco
    My sense is that so long as there is a large gap between the cost of making a replica vs the cost of the genuine article, there will always be a market for the former. It also seems to me that this price gap is widening, thus making replicas potentially more interesting to potential buyers.

    I guess I'm not being of too much help here. But I will say that sites such as this one go a long way in helping potential buyers spot fraudulent representation of replicas. That probably wasnt the case 15 years ago, when much of the data was not shared as freely.
     
  8. fish78

    fish78 F1 Rookie

    Sep 10, 2004
    4,727
    Georgia
    The idea of "certified" replicas would eliminate much of the issue of fakes..for those still trying to pass off fakes as the real thing...I see it as becoming more dificult because of the registry...maybe I am missing something, but as always caveat emptor would apply.
     
  9. schwaggen

    schwaggen Karting

    Apr 22, 2006
    104
    Miami FL
    I think this is a good point- at the heart of this lies the motivation one would have for creating a replica...from those who lust after a TR or GTO but could never afford one, to the more unscrupulous who would profit by passing off a fake as the real thing. Another issue is the extremely wide range of quality in these cars- from fairly crude re-bodies to painstakingly accurate creations, and the equivalent range in values.

    I think another issue is the gap between what a decent replica is worth once it's built, VS. what a well-restored 330 or whatever is worth- if you bought a crapped out mid 60s car (there is one on ebay now... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-330GT-2-2-s-n-6515-hasnt-run-in-10-years_W0QQitemZ320168749980QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

    you'd easily spend 60K - 80K? making it nice, and the car when it's finished wouldn't be worth much more than that, whereas if you made a nice TR out of it (don't know what that would cost...100K?), it might be worth twice that, even as a knock-off?
     
  10. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    Pau: You can count on 2 of the people being trying to get out the truth being Marcel and me! :)

    Check out my posts in the old 125 159 thread in the vintage section and in a new thread titled Nuvolari 1948 in that section, regarding 01C actually becoming 010I..

    PS: Your link doesn't work....
     
  11. fish78

    fish78 F1 Rookie

    Sep 10, 2004
    4,727
    Georgia
    I think the registry with a definite cut off date will go a long way to solving the issues you mention. Remember, part of the idea is to charge a fee when these registered/certified replicas that would go into a fund dedicated to the restoration of real vintage cars....The administration of the fund could go to simply accumulating parts that would be resold at cost to anyone restoring a vintage car...or a number of other ways. One additional thought, during the open registration period, the replicas could be ranked as to workmanship and accuracy thereby not giving a crude rebody the same status as a truly well done replica...this ranking would relect in value as the cars are sold. As I said, this is no where near a fully developed plan, but just some ideas to end the cutting up of classic cars.
     
  12. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    I think this is an excelent idea. I have from time to time defended the open cause for the repro. There are plenty of us who have a great love for the originals of these cars and their histories ,who have been priced out of the market for the originals. It would be nice if you could put some $$$ into an early 1960s GTE but where is the investment value? Don't tell me that someone paying $4.5M for a 250 California doesn't think he is going to sell it some day for more.Plus many of these cars are becoming so rare and expensive you can't really just go out and drive them which is what a car really is all about. I suppose if you really had $$$ you would do what a 250GTO owner did which was to build a repro or his car that was so close to the real thing that he got away with racing it in Ferrari Historics for three years before the sham was discovered. So,yes. lets make a place for repros. Lets have them doccumented and classified[kit car,original Ferrari donor car etc] and have events alongside the FOC/FCA events for these cars and try to keep the 'haves" and the "have nots" on the same playing field. I for one am building a repro and am collecting as many original period parts as I can to install. I don't expect to fool anyone, which must be the basic rule for any repro, but it would be nice not to be considered some kind of heretic for my efforts. I would also like to keep it open to allow others coming along to have a place to play. tongascrew
     
  13. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    Er, it would work, if FChat would allow me to actually post the correct link, Stuart.
    Apparently they've got something against that particular photo sharing website. :(

    (See this earlier thread on the subject of ******.com: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144879) :D

    I thought I'd given a big enough hint in my previous post. Seems not.

    http://www.******.com/photos/9494364@N02/1278339305/

    O.K. Copy and paste that same link, but in place of the 6 asterisks, type the letters f l i c k r (but without the spaces).

    Then see my (4th down) comment on that photo. ;)
     
  14. 50693

    50693 Karting

    Sep 12, 2006
    148
    columbus, ohio
    I know a lot of people are grossly offended by replicas based on GTEs and 330s, but i think for the most part it boils down to dollars. Even at todays prices, the cost of a proper restoration for one of these cars would far exceed their value. I remember reading that when Favre began his GTO replicas he was buying wrecked donor cars in the $4000/$5000 dollar range. Unfortunately but the ugly reality of it is that any time you have to hand make body panels, costs sky rocket.
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Totally true. The cost to build a totally accurate clone of a 250 GTO would far exceed what you could sell it for.
     
  16. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    Yes, you are right why you can't use ***** for a link! That's why I use image shack instead (plus when you upload, they give you various image sizes you can use, rather than just one...
     
  17. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    FYI, Stuart ....
    I didn't personally upload that photo to ******.com. Another eminent member of this forum kindly drew my attention to it on ******. ;)
     
  18. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2004
    6,707
    Cape Town,SA
    Full Name:
    Jacques
    .....I prefer to use the word "recreation" as the replica has such negative connotations, especially on this forum. The P4 is built by a South African company called Baily Edwards Cars and this particular one is powered by a 400i motor so at least it has a proper Ferrari V12 and sounds fantastic. The owner wanted a Ferrari motor and one was sourced from a very sick 400i and mated to a Getrag 5 speed gearbox, usually they put in V12 Jag motors...

    Overall the car looks ok, the frontal aspect looks pretty good to me but obviously when one look at pictures of real P4's its obvious there are some differances.

    Some pictures
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/Ferrari360/Cars/FerrariP4rep-1.jpg
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v59/Ferrari360/Cars/FerrariV12.jpg
     
  19. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
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    Paul S.
    I'd stick with 'P4 replica' if I were you, Jacques - just as Peter Bailey refers to them on his website .... trust me on this. ;)
    See: http://www.baileyedwardscars.co.za/P4.HTML and http://www.baileyedwardscars.co.za/P4_PICTURES.HTML

    P.S. There is an 'e' in Bailey ....
     
  20. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
  21. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,363
    VA
    I immediately noticed the drivers-side canard is slightly higher than the left. That would bug the sheet out of me.

    But I think the car is pretty sweet!
     
  22. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
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    Paul S.
    #948 P4Replica, Feb 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well I guess you could say the motor was fairly tired looking 400i (as sourced) ....

    The gearbox used is not a true 'Getrag' box per sé, but Peter Bailey's own hybrid concoction of Porsche 944 and Audi mechanicals.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
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    Paul S.
    #949 P4Replica, Feb 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    But Peter Bailey obviously has a way of 'weaving his magic' with such things .... ;)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    #950 P4Replica, Feb 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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