So I am going to describe a situation to you all here and want your thoughts.? Dealer A (Cats Exotics) buy's a car from Dealer B (name maybe later) wholesale. Dealer B states the car is "pristine" even to the diserning eye. Dealer B does advise and put on their sales order that the car has a "car fax notation". When the car fax is ran, it shows a "notation only" with clear title. When asked Dealer B states yes no problem was a Father and Son fight, Father filled theft charges against the son on the car and got it back same day...no worries it has a clean and clear California title. Dealer A buys the car based on these statements, a Dealer to Dealer transaction. When car arrives at Dealer A, it is obvious to the naked eye that it has accident history, has been repaired with NON OEM parts, has bent a arms and control arms, has rotted out of date tires...and all in all is a POS!! Dealer A confronts Dealer B, they state we advised you it had CAR FAX notation and we put it on the bill of sale, so NOPE its yours we are not taking it back. Dealer A re-checks with carfax and finds through our investigation that the car is a "SALVAGED TITLE" car out of New York. The car fax was cleared and a "notation" placed oln it. In a carfax a few motnhs prior, Carfax DID have it listed as a "Salvaged Title" but changed it to "Notation" due to a request from a licensed Dealer and CarFax paying cutomer based on their (Dealers documentation of a CLEAN California Title currently)...what Dealer asked and had this done.? They do not keep a record of that, but I think a good guess can be made.WHY, because the car had gone from NY to Arizona and then to California were it recieved a NEW CLEAR, (what I call washed title)...so it really NO LONGERS has a "salvaged title" BUT a clear California title. As of this date and our investigation, Carfax HAS re-instated the once appearing "salvaged title" on this carfax at our request when we provided the investigative material that it indeed wasand still is a "salvaged Title" car, no matter how many clean titles you try and get for it....period!. WELL, even further investigation finds that Dealer B KNEW and HAD knowledge the car had a "salvaged Title", no if ands or butts...and when again confronted with this what I think is deceptive and fail to disclose info states "No, we sold it with a clear California title, we did not sell it with a Salvaged title and its histroy is not our problem"....you still own the car, to bad have a nice day. So what do you think...?
Lawyer up and go for it. I deal with kind of stuff quite often. In real estate, there are real damage claims and punitive measures if one fails to disclose known defects. I don't know about the car business but seems to me it should be the same. Good luck, I really dislike this kind of practice. Buyer beware is no longer in our collective lexicon and it shouldn't be. Honesty is the only way to do business and stay in business. Be careful about telling too many people who the dealer is as they may make a claim against you if you do and then only the lawyers win.
Yes, it is a shame that we can no longer do GOOD BUSINESS between people.. AND 100% correct, I will LET the State of California and CHP-DMV print the Dealer involved with their PUBLIC RECORD. A case has been filled against them as well as their BOND COMPNAY and legal action has been started..
If you are asking if you should post, then I won't keep you from posting who it is. It is at your own liability, FerrariChat.com welcomes feedback on dealers. If you go public then it might give Dealer B a chance to clear their name or if this is just a rare bad deal for this dealer, then it is a warning for users to proceed with caution.
Sounds like dealer A needs to take legal action against Dealer B So sad, a man's word used to mean something...
Roy, call your lawyer, and tech "Dealer B" a lesson. Basically, make his legal bills so high, he will think twice before doing this to another dealer (or individual buyer). Whatever profit Dealer B made, make sure you cost him nearly 2-3times that in legal bills. Think of it this way Roy .... if he didn't do this to you, he could have done it to one of the memebers of this board (or an innocent buyer) who couldn't afford a legal team to make things right. My advise, Roy, send your lawyer after him. He knows what he did was wrong. Roy, you're a good man with a good reputation for being honest. It's a shame that he did this to you. Besy of luck buddy getting your money back. Thanks, UZY
[Grail Knight to Indiana Jones] You have chosen ... wisely. [gentle smile] Once upon a time I had this gorgeous case on behalf of two clients who agreed to represent a nationwide class against some bill collectors who were just making up false debts and terrorizing people into paying, and not long after we filed, the feds raided them and shut them down for doing exactly what we accused them of. But one of the other defendants didn't like some perfectly true and applicable posts I wrote on a consumer protection forum, and sued me and my clients for defamation in a court halfway across the country, and my clients got scared and quit, and I missed out on Murcielago-size contingent fees. Consolation prize was when I countersued the varmint for wrongfully interfering with my business, and the settlement was confidential, but DMV records indicate that I traded a 196,000-mile Civic DX for a new S2000 about that time frame. These guys wasted over $100,000 paying their own lawyers to try to beat me, which I thought was funny, but shows you what some people will do to shut down all criticism, especially if it's 100% true. Now I have some Reventon-size cases against some very fraudulent people who claim they can eliminate your debt and sterilize your credit report for a modest up-front fee, which of course they can't do, but desperate people will listen to anything. These guys are rotten enough that the judge listened to me for only about 15 minutes before ordering three of them arrested. Their corporate defense lawyers, as usual, have threatened countersuits against me personally, and one of them threatened my safety, but I haven't posted a word about them anywhere, so they have no leverage. They haven't defended very well either, and the final hearing is next month on some of the bigger cases. The judgment against them could be, well, interestingly large. If my side happens to win for once, and after the bad guys' time to appeal expires, then and only then will I talk about them online by name. My lesson learned is: Decide whether you want to sue 'em or shame 'em, and do one or the other. YMMV and YMBATABL (you may be able to afford better lawyers), so use your judgment.
Well I am letting someone else and the PUBLIC RECORD speak of them....and it will be good. I can add that I just learned that Dealer B did pretty close to the same thing to another Dealer on this board as well...and I will leave it up to Dealer C to say what happend to him and Dealer B...if he so chooses It is just a shame that people have gotten to the point that the frickn dollar means more than their name and word...WHICH by the GRACE OF GOD was given to them from Generations ago, which WAS a word and a handshake that took years to build in the community and they now throw away in a split second for a few bucks..... SHAME you dirty your fore fathers names with this BS performance...SHAME ON YOU
Not at this time per request of the DMV-CHP investigator that is working the case...and I can say is not very happy with what he is finding so far...
People in glass houses shouldn't cast stones. When you sold the Lambo to a gentlemen who was arrested because it was "Stolen" http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191248&highlight=cats+title. Why didn't you let him use your world famous "Buy Back Guarentee"?
Prior knowledge is prior knowledge. Dealer B knew he was selling you a previous salvage car. That's called fraud and he will LOSE.
I just went and read the thread again. At first it looked liked he didn't do anything but point the finger until he was twisting in the wind.
Lawyer up and fix it. Whining here just looks like more RoyGames. Just a very disinterested view from someone with no skin in the game.
Exactly. What was the purpose of this thread other then to try and bash some other dealer. Listen Roy, if you really need the advice of F-CHAT members for some 101 business law. I think you may be in way over your head. I know the entire story from the Dealer B side and your have embellished the facts. The only reason your not naming the dealer is that he'd sue for liable and you know it. Then dealer B would have a brand new sign up where Cat's Exotics used to be.
Sorry I do not know you first hand and I have not ever spoke to YOU direct, RICK..but it appears that you have some intrest in this..? I have learned in the past that HE HOW yells loudest with out facts, usually is in the wrong? BUT I more than welcome you or ANYONE that has documented facts to the contray to post and place it here...anytime...I am very open... AND FYI, this is not even the same situation... Dealer A (cats) HAD no knowledge the car sold to JOSH had not been paid off on the lien by the prior Delaer that we BOUGHT the car from...and YES we paid him off...actually to be factual GOT HIS CAR back at his request...after a lot of money was spent in court and found that we were **** OUT OF LUCK since we could NOT PROVE that Dealer sold us a vehicle WITH KNOWLEDGE that it still had a LIEN on it when they sold it to us...so a weak case, not worth going after and moved on with life.. HOWEVER in this case there is SOLID DOCUMENTed evidence THAT Dealer B KNEW again KNEW in advance the car HAD a SALBVAGED TITLE, failed to claim or make note of this to Dealer A and even went so far as to claim their hands ARE CLEAN as it "currently" has a clean and clear California title..HOG WASH... COVER UP and THEFT by deception with an easy win dunk in court... AND what is really curious...IF I AM afraid to name the Dealer B due to in correct statements...THIS WOULD be the BEST opportunity in the world for Dealer B to step forward with all their evidence and SHUT me up and SHUT me down...at least I think so... Agian if nothing doen wrong then Dealer B should come out smelling and looking better than ever!!
Roy I admire your car collection, company, and you as a person. Specifically your communication habits which are constantly being tested again and again. Your overall reputation is well deserved.... And that's not the direct reason, but one major factor for why I'll call you first when I buy my Ferrari or Lamborghini later this year.
With all due respect, I don’t think there is anything wrong with Roy venting a little bit here. FChat was the first place I came to when my car was spit on. I posted about it, and felt a little better. Whatever happened here, Roy feels cheated. You say he embellished the story in places and that may be. But you don’t deny that he was defrauded. Do you think he just has a case of buyers remorse? There is ALWAYS two sides to every story and I welcome Roy’s version. I would also take the time to read Dealer B’s account of the event. Roy has a lot of friends in this community and some of us depend on the experiences of others to learn “the game” of buying cars. I for one learned something very important here. Investigate all notations on a Carfax report. And, I guess the Carfax report can’t be always be trusted. Sorry if this response seems a little antagonistic. I just get upset when an FChatter posts about an awful experience he or she has, and then gets attacked by others. Sorry for your troubles Roy. I hope you get a good outcome.
