Unobtainium Supplies: K-Jetronic (CIS) Plastic Fuel Line/Hose Restoration Kit

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Verell, Feb 20, 2008.

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  1. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    May 5, 2001
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    I'm pleased to announce that Unobtainium Supply Co. can now provide a K-Jetronic (CIS) Plastic Fuel Line Restoration Kit.

    The kit contains sufficient lengths of the correct 5mm, 6mm,& 8mm black polyamide(aka Nylon(tm)) line to restore a 308/328/Mondial 2V or 4V CIS system. There is enough extra line of each size to allow for several mistakes while learning how to insert the metal barbs into the line. I had to specialy import the line from Germany as the correct size was never imported into the US before!

    If you're interested in the extensive research and background details on this project, see this thread:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13095

    ORDERING INSTRUCTIONS:
    To order send a $55.76 = $44.76/kit + $10.90 S&I to USA address) via PayPal to:

    SUBJ: ORDER:Qty n Unbreakable Lever Bezels,Chrome Qty
    TO: Orders(at)UnobtainiumSupply(dot)com - (Sorry, but I get swamped with spam when I use the @ & . symbols)

    PLEASE:
    1) Include your shipping address, phone # for shipping co. use, & Fchat member name in the eMAIL.
    2) Remember to put the quantity in the subject as I track open orders using eMAIL folders.

    If you don't use PayPal, Send eMAIL to the same address with the order information to lock in your order & that you're mailing your payment made out to:

    Unobtainium Supply Co.
    523 Longley Rd
    Groton,MA, USA
    01450

    INTERNATIONAL ORDERS:
    Please send eMAIL with your shipping address, phone #(shipping requires for quote). & I'll get back with S&I costs to you.

    I'll eMAIL you order confirmation.

    CAVEAT:
    Some of the Euro models use SS braid covered line instead of the kit's plain black 8mm line. eMAIL me & I'll quote you a special price for a kit w/o the 8mm line. If there's enough Euro interest, I'll provide a kit with the SS line.
     
  2. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    OOPS, as some of you have already figured out that should read:

    SUBJ: ORDER: Qty 1 K-Jetronic Fuel Line Restoration Kit.

    Also,
    If ordering more than 1 kit, please replace the '1' with the number of kits you're ordering.

    I"ll post the following in the next few days:
    - Drawing of the assembly tool I built, & pix showing how it's used.
    - Tips on how to remove the old line & install the new line.

    The tool is NOT for sale. With 17 hours invested in it, I can't afford to make another one.
     
  3. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    If you're planning to redo your fuel lines in the next few weeks, I suggest you place your order ASAP as I'm down to 3 kits.

    When these are gone, I'll have to get more line from Germany. The last order from Germany was 'expedited' & still took 6 or 7 weeks with premium air freight shipping!

    I'm working on the CAD drawing for the tool, & am writing up some old line removal/new line installation tips. The metal tool I built works great, don't have to heat or lube the tubing, just press the barb in by hand! I should have them available by this time next week.
     
  4. barcheta

    barcheta F1 Rookie

    Nov 15, 2003
    3,705
    you have an order waiting on paypal! :)
     
  5. zebra308

    zebra308 Formula 3
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    I just placed mine.. I'll need 2 kits
    Thanks,
    Will
     
  6. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    Will wait till the next go round since demand is high.


    The tip sheet or the tool w/tip sheet?
     
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  8. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Those were the last 3 kits. I'll post when I've got more available.

    Tool drawing & tip sheet.
     
  9. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    Thanks a group!
     
  10. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    REMOVAL PROCEDURE:
    1)Measure & write down the line's length before beginning this procedure.

    2) Do not cut the old line, or at least leave a 20-30 mm length beyond the barb's end until after the line is removed.

    3) Score the line: Use a sharp knife (eg; eXacto) to make a shallow cut along the barb to weaken the line.

    CAUTION: Do NOT cut deep, if you nick the barb, the new line WILL LEAK & you will need a new barb.

    3) Weaken & stretch the line around the barb: Use a pair of pliars (I like the tip of linesmans pliars) to firmly squeeze the line against the barb working all the way around the barb. This will weaken & stretch the line so that it's loose on the barb.

    CAUTION: Be careful to not crush or scratch the barb or the new line WILL LEAK & you will need a new barb.

    An alternative to using pliars is to use end-cutting wire cutters to work your way around the barb grabbing one side of the line.

    4) Pull the line off: Grip the line about 12mm beyond the barb's end & pull the line straight off of the barb. It will usually split along the shallow cut, but in any case it should come off fairly easily. If it doesn't readily come off repeat step 3.

    INSTALLATION TIPS:
    1) Cut one end of a long piece of line square across using blade & anvil type shears such as garden or utility shears. I use these shears: Craftsman 2-1/2 in. Handi-Cut
    Sears item# 00937300000

    CAUTION: Do NOT pre-cut the line into lengths. If you pre-cut the line & mess up installing the barb into the first end, then you have to scrap the entire length. If you keep a long length, then you only scrap an inch or so. This is especially important while you are learning how to insert the barb.

    2) Insert the first barb into the line.

    3) Cut the line to length & insert the 2nd barb.

    NOTE: The injector line lengths for each bank must be very closely matched or they won't stay together in a neat bundle.

    I measured the following lengths on 2 Euro 308 QVs & 2 US spec 308 GTSis:

    6mm lines:
    Front Bank Injector Lines: 4 @ 310 mm
    Rear Bank Injector Lines: 4 @ 300 mm
    Cold Start Injector Lines: 1 @ 370 mm

    5mm lines:
    Warmup Regulator Lines: 1 @ 350mm & 1 @ 270mm
    BEST TO MEASURE: Depending on your WUR the length may vary.
    8mm lines:
    Distributor Inlet Line: 1 @ 360 mm
    Distributor/Frequency Valve Return Line: 1 @ 340 mm to 1 @ 400 mm
    Distributor to Frequency Valve line: 1 @ 120mm to 1 @ 450mm
    BEST TO MEASURE: Depending on your Frequency Valve's location, or if you have a Mondial these lengths will vary.

    The 328 lengths should be identical to the QV's length except for the frequency control valve whose location seems to vary a lot.

    The frequency control valve's location seems to vary a lot on federalized Euros, so your length may vary.

    Unfortunately, I could not locate a Mondial to measure, so your length may vary. I would greatly appreciate feedback when you measure your Mondial line lengths.

    If you find that your car's lengths are different, please assist others by posting your car's model & the lengths to this thread. This is especially important to help ensure I'm supplying sufficient length.
     
  11. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
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    Dear Ferraristi,

    You know Verell, you are really amazing !

    I drive a 91 TR & Diablo VT R and don't need your specific kit, but had to write. You may want to make this kit available for TR's and Lambo CT's. On the Lambo boards, this is a commom " OMG, what am I going to use now?!? "

    Your great work and dedication is appreciated !


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  12. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran
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    Verell, you have to post some pics of the installation tool. (I got to see it last week and it's really slick.) The tool looks a little tricky to turn out in quantity unless he had a machine shop do a run of them to get the price down, but man, that thing will make quick work of assembling these. Take it from me, assembling them without some sort of tool is next to impossible.

    Birdman
     
  13. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    I just got word from CohlineUSA, my order will be in the next container from Germany, scheduled to arrive 2nd week of April. It'll take about 1 to 1-1/2 weeks to clear customs, get shipped to me & for me to make up kits.
     
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  15. desire308

    desire308 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2007
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    That's great...I'm already on the list.

    BTW...did you all settle on the install method? Sounds like the tips can be dipped in boiling water and then pushed in place and they will shrink to a snug fit...yes? I am also very leary about removal with a knife since any kind of knick or scratch will cause a leak. can they be heated or twisted off?

    Thanks for all of your efforts!
     
  16. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    #14 Verell, Mar 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK, OK, I can take a hint. ;)

    USING THE BARB INSERTION TOOL:
    The following pictures show the sequence of steps from removing the old line thru using the tool to install the new line:
    - removing the old line

    - installing the barb in the insertion tool's top half. The top is a sliding fit on the line & barb so it's easy to work with.

    - The insertion tool's two bottom halves showing the lower smaller ID that clamps the line & the larger upper ID that provides room for the barb to expand the line. The tool can handle both the 6mm & 5mm lines just by switching sides. The top aligns the barb with either side.

    - The tool inserted into a vice ready to insert the barb in the line. The vice jaws both clamp the line in the bottom half, and also provide the outer edges of the rectangular guide for the square alignment keys. The alignment pins also keep the tool from sliding thru the vice jaws. The square keys ensure the barb is kept vertical & goes straight into the tube.

    - Side view just before insertion. Note that the tubing is slightly off-center in the clearance hole.

    - Side view just after beginning insertion using finger pressure. Note that the barb has brought the tubing back to center!

    - The tool in it's closed position, the barb is fully inserted. The 6mm tubing takes a tap or 2 with a plastic mallet to ensure it's fully seated. I can usually fully seat the 5mm line by pushing down with both thumbs.

    Note that the allen screw isn't fully tight. I realized that it doesnt need to be tight as the keys will hold the top closed. The key is just loose enough for the tubing to slip in & out between the halves. This speeds up operation considerably!

    - The result!!!
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 001 800x600.jpg
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 002 800x600.jpg
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 003 800x600.jpg
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 004 800x600.jpg
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 006 800x600.jpg
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 007 800x600.jpg
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 009 800x600.jpg
    CIS Barb Insertion Tool 008 800x600.jpg
     
  17. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    RE: INSTALLATION:
    Installation is to press in, requires a tool as shown in my preceding post. I'm drawing up the tool. The 6mm line requires too much insertion force to be done w/o a tool that both holds the line & keeps the barb aligned with the line as it's being pressed in.

    Theoreticly 5mm line can be done by holding the line in a flaring tool & pressing the barb in by hand, but it takes practice. Birdman said he ruined a couple of meters of line while learning. The tool makes 5mm installation very easy.

    In either case, no heating is required.

    The 8mm line can easily be done by holding the line in a brake flaring tool & pressing the barb in by hand. It just takes some force & a little practice.

    RE:REMOVAL:
    See the removal tips in my earlier tips post & the removal pictures in my preceding post. The scoring with an exacto knife isn't necessary if you use end cutters.

    If you use end cutters, catch as small amount of the side as possible.

    DO NOT try to use side cutting pliars, you can't control the cut well enough to ensure you'll avoid nicking the barb.
     
  18. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Since a couple of people have already sent me money, I figured that to be fair to everyone, I ought to formally announce that the april kits will be shipped first come first served based on the date on your eMAIL order.
     
  19. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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    Are you going to make the tool available for sale?
     
  20. mattboyd

    mattboyd Karting

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    #18 mattboyd, Mar 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I should frequent f-chat more often...

    I did this whole job several years ago. I replated all the lines (had them replated, that is) with yellow zinc dichromate. I sourced the black polyamid fuel line from Winzer in Dalllas, TX (took several iterations before I got the right match, including one salesperson sending me a reel of windshield washer fluid hose!). I sourced the installation tool (pics attached) from Baum Tool. I went to their site tonight and put the part # in (P385) and it is still there. In 1999 when I bought it, the tool was $59.29 plus shipping.

    -Matt
    '85 euro 308
    P3060002small.jpg
    P3060008small.jpg
    P3060009small.jpg
     
  21. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    As soon as I finish them, I"m going to send the drawings to a machinist for quotes. I'd estimate that i'll be in the $75 - $95 range. I'd need at least 10 & preferably 15 or 20 buyers to consider a run of them.

    If you'd be interested in buying one please indicate so in a post.

    BTW, my 1st take at a tool was something very similar to the Baum tool, It wasn't too bad with the thinner wall lines (the 5mm), but I ruined a lot of that 6mm line before I got a successful insertion. So far, this tool has inserted the barb cleanly every time!
     
  22. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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    I'm in Verell, depending on how fast you churn them out.
     
  23. gt500blue

    gt500blue Karting
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    I'm in too!
     
  24. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Verell,

    Me three !!!
     
  25. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    So far doesn't look like enougn interest to tool up a run of the tools. Anyone have suggestions/ideas?

    Am I jumping to a conclusion, are people out there waiting for the next batch of kits to be available b4 speaking up about the tool?

    Mark, JW, & Maury what's your time frames? ie: How soon do you need a tool & for how long?

    Inquiringly,
    Verell
     
  26. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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    The car comes back next week, but I'm sure it'll take me a month or so to put it all back together. If you were to loan your tool I could use it and send it back whatever time works out best for you and everyone else. I'm guessing I should only need it for a day or so.
     
  27. wantaferrari

    wantaferrari Rookie

    Dec 30, 2006
    47
    I know this is being discussed for 308's and Mondials. Will this kit work on a USA spec 87 328 gts?

    Scott
     
  28. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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    Yep, I'm doing an 86 328.
     
  29. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2006
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    Verell,
    count me in for a kit and tool. If you can confirm the cost of the tool I could send you the money for all parts in one transfer.
    My car is a Euro 328 (1988) and I don't need the lines from fuel distributor to pump and fuel tank (they are stainless steel)

    Thanks !
     
  30. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Verrel,

    I am in no rush. Another couple of months after 26+ years probably won't hurt anything (I hope) :) In actuality my lines look very good but I wanted to replace them just for the heck of it.

    Hey Buddy, you have a private email "Collets are coming!!!"

    Mark
     
  31. gt500blue

    gt500blue Karting
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    I'm in somewhat of a hurry as 2 of my lines are "bubbled" from previous heat damage or something. They have been that way for a year now, so I don't think they are as bad as they look, but would like to do it when I get the next chance. So I guess I didn't pay attention to the thread well enough. I have an 83 QV. My assumption is that the plastic line that you secured for me and this tool will still work on my car. Am I right?

    SO, that being a safe assumption, I could do it as soon as I receive a tool.

    Thanks!
    JW
     
  32. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    count me in for one.
     
  33. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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    Verell, where do you stand on mailing out the insertion tooling? I'm getting my car back tomorrow and plan to be flying on it getting it all back and going.
     
  34. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    I see 5 people down for the tools.

    I'll runoff a pilot quantity (6-8) out of maple. Price will be $95 each + $11.90 S&I.

    Again, 1st come, 1st served, send PayPal per instructions earlier in this thread.
    Please use:
    SUBJ: ORDER: Qty 1 CIS line insertion tool

    I'm already 100% booked thru Friday, I've scheduled time the 1st part of next week to make them. They'll ship mid to late next week.

    I'm sorry this is taking so long, New Years thru April is my peak season, & this year's peak is the largest I've had to date. I'm just now shipping orders that arrived in early March.
     
  35. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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  36. gt500blue

    gt500blue Karting
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    Please forgive my ignorance... Maple? Is that a mold for a machine shop or will the tool made of wood actually work too? Stupid question, I'm sure :)
     
  37. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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    Doesn't seem like a stupid question to me. I just thought he was sending me a wood tool, and because Verell made it, it would work fine. ;)
     
  38. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    It will be a fully functional tool made out of maple. Maple is an extremely hard, dimensionally stable, fine grained wood. It's often used for machining fixtures because it can be machined so precisely. Another use is for patterns for sand casting where it's used many times/day for 20-30 years or more. Using carbide tools, I can cut maple at much much faster rates than I can aluminum.

    This tool is a good aplication for maple. Maple has just enough surface texture so that it will hold the Cohline tubing with less pressure than is required for Aluminium, hence less chance of damaging it.
     
  39. gt500blue

    gt500blue Karting
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    Awesome. Thank you! I will paypal tonight.

    Thanks,
    GT
     
  40. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    I've had a couple of PMs asking if there are any kits available. At this point I still have a couple of the late April kits w/o customers. I also have a couple of customers who've said they're 'in' but haven't sent payment. I'm following up with them to see if they're really 'in', or if I can make their kits available.

    Haven't verified w/Cohline, but I'm pretty sure they get containers every other month, so the next round of kits will most likely ship in late June.
     
  41. lou staller

    lou staller Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2002
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    Verell,
    How do I go about ordering your fuel line replacement kit? I can't seem to find where you indicate the price for the lines and the installation tool. Thanks
     
  42. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Lou,
    See this thread's posts #1 & #32.

    Don't drag your feet. I'll do a full count of the April delivery orders tonight, but I think there may only be 1 kit left.
     
  43. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    OK, I've gone thru all the orders, turns out there are now 2 kits remaining.
    Turns out I had 2 peoplemwr4440 & DMaury) down for kits who just wanted the tool to go with the kits they've already got.

    gt500blue,
    I'm reserving a fuel line kit + insertion tool for you, is this correct?
    Not sure if I've received your payment & just aren't tyeing the name & Fchat username together, or if I Haven't rcvd payment yet. Don't think I"ve received it as I haven't seen a TX shipping address in the PayPal notifications.

    Pls eMAIL me & clarify.
     
  44. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Verrel,

    What do I owe you for the tool and any other goodies I have been remiss in paying you for? Sorry......

    mwr4440
     
  45. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    I'm counting orders received as of 6:00 PM EDT tonight & cutting maple.
    I'll start a couple extra in case I blow a setup, but there may not be any extra when I'm finished.
    If I haven't received your payment as of this deadline, then you'll most likely have to wait untill I get enough orders to runoff some more.

    To order the tool, See the amount in post #32, & adapt the ordering instructions in post #1, using
    "ORDER: Qty 1 CIS Insertion Tool"
    in the PayPal notes subject.
    If you're sending a check or MO, then send email w/same SUBJECT:
     
  46. gt500blue

    gt500blue Karting
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    Verell,

    I have already received the plastic fuel lines. I simply need the tool. I have sent you two private messages. Bottom line is that my paypal account was low and I just transferred the funds to it from my checking account. They are telling me it will take 48 hours for the transfer. Please be assured that I will pay you ASAP, just like the fuel lines.

    Bottom line: I have the fuel lines already from you. That should leave you with another set of lines for someone else.

    I need the insertion tool only and will submit payment as soon as the account funds are there.

    Thanks for your patience and continued dedication to all of us on Fchat!

    John
    GT500Blue
     
  47. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3
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    Oh, and Verell, I DO have 20 meters of the 6 X 2 line that came in finally that I had tracked down before I saw you were making kits. What ever is left over I'll ship to you and that way more folks can get their kits. I have no need of it. :)
     
  48. lou staller

    lou staller Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2002
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    Verell, I sent payment via Paypal a few days ago for lines and tool. Did you receive it? Did I make it in time to get one of the last April orders? Thanks
     
  49. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2006
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    Same question here ... can you please confirm ?
     
  50. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula Junior
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    Hello,

    I just reed a Bosch-manual for K-jetronic installations. Make shure the injector-line lengths must be the exact the same !! Its very important for an exact explosion-timing from fuelmixture inside the 8 different cambers. With different lengths, the engine may run irregular.

    Guido
     
  51. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Lou, RGigante, you made it under the wire.
     
  52. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    6,905
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    I just called CohlineUSA to check on the order.

    The container came in yesterday, but it didn't have our special ordered Cohline on it. It's in a container that's coming in 1st week in May. CohlineUSA suspecta that the factory had to run some off & just didn't get it made in time for the April container. Makes sense, as last time I ordered a 20 meter roll, but it came in as 8 5 meter pieces. They confirmed that I had ordered well in advance of the deadline for this shipment.

    When I told them I had 10 customers waiting for the line they offered to try to get some in a rush shipment for another customer that's being sent by air tomorrow. They're sending eMAIL to try to get some in that shipment. I agreed to splitting the air freight charge with the other customer(s). I told them that if it came in, I'd also take the line that's coming in early May.

    I'm going to be traveling w/o internet access for 2 weeks starting Friday 25 April. If it makes the air shipment, I should have it in time to get it out next week before I leave but it's going to be tight.
     

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