very early diablo are some of the quickest: Myth or Truth?

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by EMILIO, Jul 5, 2016.

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  1. EMILIO

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    #1 EMILIO, Jul 5, 2016
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    from my lost youth i had a old memory in my mind: i thought the original diablo was very close in acceleration time to the F40....yes, i know it sounds stupid to most, is sounds not possible given the F40 is so much lighter and has similar power and torque.

    growing up i honestly thought this memory was more the desire of young lamborghini fanatic than reality ;)
    i thought it was not real, but more like "i hoped the diablo was as quick as an F40" but is not possible...the quoted statistics tells the F40 must be far quicker

    almost everyone that had experience with both cars could confirm the F40 was much quicker accelerating: in the end, it makes sense since diablo has few more quoted hp and some 300-400 Kg heavier than the Ferrari rival.
    The only statistic they were really comparable, and were the diablo was a bit better than its "competitor" from Maranello, was the "hiper-useless" over 320 Kmh top speed...thanks to lower drag and some more ponies the diablo is a tad faster than a F40 in its final speed. But who really cares? would you ever be able to push a diablo to its 326 Km/h final velocity? hardly...

    Now, do not get me wrong: i know for SURE the F40 is far superior as a trak machine, i know it is built as a no compromise, track oriented machine, i know it is much faster on a lap since it is much lighter, has better handling etc..etc...
    but still the memory of these close acceleration times was somewhat in the back of mind....

    Now back to 2016: chatting with some lamborghini owners lately, as well as some lamborghini aficionados, i got often the opinion the VERY early diablos were among the quickest of all diablo versions.

    some guys that owned many lamborghinis and other that drove even more of them, told me that the early diablos are quicker in acceleration times compared to ALL later road models, with the only exclusion of Jota and GT, ( it is not a mistery the Jota and GT are close to 600 hp and they had a lot of engine upgrades to make them so powerfull).
    the SV-R and GTR are also quicker but honestly not comparable since pure racer, not road legal cars.

    it is no mistery the 2wd diablos are lighter than later VT, roadster and 6.0. but the difference in weight should be compensated by the extra power on late cars.
    and also: the SE30 and SV should be quicker than a early 2wd since they should be ligther and more powerfull, but is it really the case? not so sure...
    please keep in mind statistics and quoted performance - weight figures from Sant Agata factory were far from accurate years ago, please note it was not so uncommon back then to states the "new" version was quicker regardless of real performance gain: i think most lamborghini guys know what we are talking about

    1 month ago, a guy that owns both a VT 6.0 and early 2wd told me, there is NOT one single doubt his early car is a quicker car than the 6.0; yes the 6.0 is better built, its brakes are 3 times better, handlig is vastly improved....basically the late car is superior in almost everything, but for pure acceleration? NO NO way... the old 2wd is for sure much quicker!


    please note we are not talking about all the 1990-1996 2wd diablos, most opinions i collected coincide: just the VERY early cars...then they got somewhat "less quick...probably less powerfull"

    So how many of these quick diablos were made?
    i really have no idea, but it looks like only the first cars
    some say 20 cars, some say 50....but all these "guy in the know" agreed that after some diablos were sold, the cars became slower and less powerfull.
    why the cars were "detuned" after ?
    this i do not know but if i had to guess, they may had some reliability doubts
    the car was plenty fast aniway and worth the risk to have reliability problems so ...detuned just to be on the safe side?
    could be, they may had enough good press and results from early magazines test

    yesterday i was reading some old magazine i collected when i was a child and i found this old autocapital from the early 90's, with a comparative btw some of the quicker cars of the era, i noticed the F40 and diablo acceleration times were much closer than most would aspect: i scanned the times.
    take a look and please tell me if the diablo had only 14 hp more than the F40 how it could be as quick or even a bit quicker in 0-100, 0-200 Kmh as well as in the 400meters or 1000meters from still! no way

    So ....are some early diablos as quick as an F40? there is some truth behind this myth?
    i'd like to hear opinions and even more direct experiences with them

    for sure i remember when the diablo was to be launched it was the F40 performances that lamborghini wanted to match and possibly defeat: the diablo project was pushed to be a world beater supercar and intended to be a F40 competitor more than a Testarossa competitor.
    last note: i think these fast diablos are only early european cars. so please do not post US test results of USA diablos being much slower Vs USA F40: i already know it is
    SKMBT_C20316070518350.jpg
     
  2. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    #2 Lemacc, Jul 5, 2016
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    Truth, very early cars had very strong engines. Difficult to say how many cars were that fast. I think we speak about the first 40 cars.

    In the attached pictures you find only prototyps. These cars had some differences to the later production cars:

    -different front bumper (position of the lights)
    -some cars had side markers on unusual position and a different third brake light
    -window switches next to the gear level
    -front trunk opener on a different position
    -leather around the gauges in the dash pod
    -different door lock latches

    And far more details which i can´t identify because there are no very early Prototyps around.
    The earliest i know, is the yellow Diablo 2wd from Tonino´s museo (8th of 10th prototyps)
    This car was original red, but has the production front bumper.
    buch1.jpg
    buch2 (1).jpg
    buch2 (3).jpg
    gallery_6397_64_45911.jpg
    lambo__17.jpg
    lambo_diab1.jpg
    199x Lamborghini Diablo Coupe Rv2.jpg
    1990 Lamborghini Diablo - sVr.jpg
    ams 1990.jpg
    B10760.jpg
    dia17.jpg
    buch2 (2).jpg
    $_57.JPG
     
  3. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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  4. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    #4 Lemacc, Jul 5, 2016
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    This is an interesting list of the "Lamborghini Diablo" book from Jürgen Lewandowski:
    IMG_6505.jpg
     
  5. ralfabco

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    Interesting.


    I believe some claim the Murcielago was cooled off for 2004.
     
  6. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    the pop up lights are also different inside compared to production cars
     
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  8. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    Correct i forgot this point! Thanks for correction ;)

    I cannot confirm this, but i think the first 2-3 cars (for example the red car with pre-production bumper) had an higher roof than the production cars or maybe the doors were slightly different.


     
  9. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    yes, this has been confirmed by many different sources. 2002-2003 cars are quicker than later.
     
  10. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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  11. EMILIO

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  12. EMILIO

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    #11 EMILIO, Jul 6, 2016
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    a very nice image of a 1990 diablo proto
    you can clearly spot the differnces Vs production cars
    maxresdefault.jpg
     
  13. SupercarGuru

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    Not sure about stats but I have always felt that the 1990-1992 and SE30 1994 cars "felt" the fastest.

    Prior to warming up the P Zeros, my former 1991 2wd coupe rear wheels would spin upon full acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear...
     
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  15. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #13 EMILIO, Jul 6, 2016
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    diablo 1990 proto again

    a better resolution of the picture, already posted by the "diabloguru" lambodriver
    1990-lamborghini-diablo.jpg
     
  16. EMILIO

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    #14 EMILIO, Jul 6, 2016
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    thanks for your impression, John

    i think you talk about this 91?
    http://wearecurated.com/2015/11/20/the-pure-diablo/

    very interesting since i know you drove many diablos
     
  17. EMILIO

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    #15 EMILIO, Jul 6, 2016
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    1990 diablo again
    showing one of best part of diablo design
    1990-lamborghini-diablo-coup-automobile-model-years-photo-u1.jpg
     
  18. PineChris

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    I dont know about the first 50 cars being fastest, but Ive always said the early Diablo is among the very fastest. Made same hp as later cars, without the additional of weight of adjustable suspension, power steering, abs etc..
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Great thread Emilio!!!

    As I said elsewhere, if you want to see a certain type of thread, START it.

    The first 50 cars faster than the later cars? :eek:

    Truth! :D

    There is a similar thing that happened down the road at Maranello concerning Ferrari's F40, the 'Father' of the F40 Ing. Nicola Materazzi (who wrote the introduction for my 288 GTO book) told me so himself.
     
  20. EMILIO

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    #18 EMILIO, Jul 6, 2016
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    probably the very first book on the lamborghini diablo
    written by the italian lamborghini writer, Stefano Pasini

    i believe it is featuring a very early yellow car
    53905.jpg
     
  21. SupercarGuru

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    #19 SupercarGuru, Jul 6, 2016
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    Yes, I actually miss the white car A LOT.

    Yes, the clutch was very stiff and the AC was not the best, but as long as I did not get stuck in Miami traffic it was amazing!

    I took it on the BullFest rally here and EASILY kept up with Murcielago's, Gallardo's and even Aventador's.

    My 1998 SV did not feel nearly as fast.
    diablos-3.jpg
     
  22. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    thank you, Joe
    :)

    very interesting about the early F40, did not know that

    and an other thing in common to its competitor from Sant Agata
     
  23. Diablo_4_Ever

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    The very early Euro cars are without a doubt the most interesting and desirable of the 2wd.
    A bit off-topic but does anyone know the story behind the dark gray mirrors? They are also found on 'later' 2wd ('92-'93) that do not have the other features of the early 2wd.
     
  24. EMILIO

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    looked great in white.

    we have an other witness that a 91 was faster than a 530 hp 1998 SV
    would be interesting to know the VIN of your former 91, John
    can you share the VIN ?

    to see if it is or not one of the first "5o" or so cars
     
  25. mikael82

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    I don't know if very early cars had darker gray paint over mirrors, but all car left factory with least mirror base painted metal grey (please inform if not so) it was because it made side windows form original desing look, that you can for excample found on owners manual cover.
    pre VT cars should all have mirrors fully painted to metal grey.
    MANY cars are overpainted, and MANY cars got base and mirror painted to body color as they are not so easy to remove for painting.
    I spot overspray cars by it's mirrors...
     
  26. SupercarGuru

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    MLA12158
     
  27. skierlawyer

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    #25 skierlawyer, Jul 6, 2016
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    Sometimes when I drive my '91 Diablo, I think to myself "Why are we allowed to have these?" it is scary fast. At 50 mph if I stomp on the throttle the rear wheels spin and I giggle. And I don't need to remind everyone they are huge rear tires. In a curve, I have to be careful with the throttle as it will rev so fast you can go right off the road, I know why the car was tamed with 4wd and why so many 2wd were wrecked. The long gearing isn't bad, just use a lot of 1st and 2nd gear to keep the revs up on a spirited canyon run. I think of first as second in a normal car and 2nd as third, etc. from about 5000 RMP the engine feels extra strong to redline. Oh and the sounds, can only be experienced no video does it justice.

    Only 2 modification to my car:
    1.Al Butoni Exhaust (no cats)
    2. Big Brake kit (and 18" wheels)

    The biggest drawback to the early cars is the brakes, but with a brake kit the early Diablo is sublime. Far far from a daily driver, but that is the whole point of an occasion car. I have a daily driver (Porsche) and a sports car (F355), the Diablo is my super car.
    Diablo park.jpg
     
  28. andecorp

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    My '91 is certainly faster than my other Diablos. I always assumed this due to the fact it's a Middle East delivery and since they don't care about the environment there, it has bigger injectors, fuel rail, etc.

    VIN is MLA12326
     
  29. Lemacc

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    #27 Lemacc, Jul 7, 2016
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    An early presentation of the Diablo. You can see the unusual position of the side markers.
    This must be P12007 or later repainted P12008.
    551316d762.jpg
     
  30. hashiriya

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    #28 hashiriya, Jul 7, 2016
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    This thread makes me want to cry a bit, a mix of happiness and the memory. I was like 4 years old, when I saw a Diablo in a toy shop and parents got me that. Huge scale (when you are a kid), very detailed model. Of course, very early model 1990-1992, of course, yellow paint! Very very narrow side skirt inserts. The engine louvers and other stuff drove me mad about the beauty of the car. This was the first car I've ever drawn, and I've drawn it so many times I can easily do it once again after 20 years passed. At the age of 7, I took apart my Diablo scale model, to see how the cars were made, broke few things in the engine compartment, haha, and assembled it back again. I might still have it somewhere, although it's got some decent paint scratches.
    I know, this may sound odd for some older guys, but this design is very good and very pure. The rear is also extremely special out of all car designs! Nothing like the Countach, but more beautiful, more of the elegant 90s than shocking 80s.
    I admire the Chrysler's effort in making it more eye-friendly than the initial Gandini prototype.
    I don't really admire anything past the 1994 VT with new bumpers and etc., after I've seen them in real life. Not much love for 6.0 with 300ZX headlights. They are nice, but no. Pop-ups with 4 quad fog lights are better. For many years, it seemed like I'm the only one who loves early Diablos that much. Until they started to grow in price. :p Still haven't got one yet.
     
  31. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    thanks John,


    Now some points to think about:
    - MLA12158 is a USA car: less quick than the same period 91 european diablo (more power and less weight)
    - MLA12158 is not one of the first "50" diablos

    Now you got my point: if a usa 91 car, not in the first 50 cars production run is quicker than an USA SV....think how fast is an european early production one!
    again...these were FAST lamborghinis....built to compete with the F40 ;)
     
  32. raymondQV

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    Just a memory, the half shafts of the Diablo 12007 broke during a test, they used the same as in the F40...
     
  33. EMILIO

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    #31 EMILIO, Jul 7, 2016
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    99% agreed, with a little exception

    my 2wd diablo came with yellow mirrors and yellow base, (body color).
    confirmed by the family of first owner and mechanic that took care of it for many years: mirrors had always been yellow.
    the car is VERY original, since the first owner had huge respect and love for the car, senior guy that enjoied driving it with his granson on the passenger seat, 0 interest in modding it (luckily!).
    As a sample is probably the only diablo i have driven or seen in person with all stock silencers and cats, Original stereo, lenses, wing, badges, etc... i personally could not resist a sport exhaust sistem on my roadster

    BUT mine is NOT a early car, is a mid to late 93 car, a ibrid 2wd-VT, one of only 35 around cars built that way, so it makes sense it has mirrors like a VT
    So this is not a reference for the older cars, even the engine compartment looks more like a VT than a 91.
    i add a pic to show the color matching mirrors on mine

    i think ALL the cars before, so till 92-early 93 had originally grey mirrors and grey base: personally i like the grey mirrors! as Mikael said grey mirrors show better the side look-design
    10679488_10153058443709169_2001224406365009689_o.jpg
     
  34. EMILIO

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    #32 EMILIO, Jul 7, 2016
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    an other book i higly suggest to purchase to any diablo lover is the huge and detailed Jurgen Lewandowski volume
    featuring probably an other very early white red car in its cover
    lamborghini-diablo-lewandowski-jurgen-19832.jpg
     
  35. Diablo_4_Ever

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    Doubt it, there are period pictures of pre '92-'93 2wd with painted mirrors in exterior color. There is probably no clear-cut distinction in terms of production year, except for the very early 2wd cars which had these grey mirrors. It is also interesting that some Diablo had the base painted and some don't, as you mentioned. Personally I like the grey mirrors as well, it gives a cleaner look, I also prefer the narrow positioned lights.
     
  36. EMILIO

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    answering to Mikael 82 that all 2wd had grey mirror and all 2wd with color matching mirrors had repainted mirrors i told the late 93 2wd, with VT engine already all had color coded mirrors. of this i am pretty much sure

    now, you made me think about the cars before ...like late 92-early93 ...i am still studing on this and you may be right

    i have seen the rosso sun VT proto on a period magazine test: the magazine came out in March 1993
    car had already the color matching mirrors when it was tested.
    if the magazine came out in March, it is reasonable to think the pics were made few months before...can we say January or February?
    so it is entirely possible, at least some, diablos 2wd already wear color matching mirrors early 93
     
  37. EMILIO

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    #35 EMILIO, Jul 7, 2016
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    grey mirrors on this very early car
    from Autocapital magazine - December 1990
    tested by the italian lamborghini writer, and Ferrari chat member, Stefano Pasini
    this is a rare 1990 car and should be without any doubt one of the GOFAST diablos

    99% the same car featured in the Diablo book from same author
    SKMBT_C20316070718350.jpg
    SKMBT_C20316070718360.jpg
     
  38. EMILIO

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    #36 EMILIO, Jul 7, 2016
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    an other italian "rwd" diablo, awesome looking in its white-red livery
    this time not one of the early stupidfast ones

    AFAIK this is a mid to late 1992 one STILL on grey mirrors
    I have no definitive answer on the grey mirrors topic yet...

    p.s. car now for sale, advertised for an optimistic 370.000 euro
    CIMG7262.jpg
    20140518_125902.jpg
     
  39. Diablo_4_Ever

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    #37 Diablo_4_Ever, Jul 7, 2016
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    I have this book by Pasini. It has a series of pictures of what appears to be the same yellow car that Lambodriver posted, with the weird side reflectors. I do wonder if there were any production cars with the narrow positioned lights, or only prototypes.
    186829_140627140827_borg_001.jpg
     
  40. roytoy2003

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    I just bought a 91 Red/Tan Diablo. It has the grey mirrors as a referred to here. It also has been upgraded with 2003 Murcie 18" wheels, (original OEM stock are still with the car as well).

    The previous owner also changed the transmission to a later Diablo one that is now a push style clutch instead of the pull...makes a vast improvement on the drive-ability. (the original tranny is included as well).

    To be quite frank, I have never really driven a 91 Diablo, so with all this talk about the power etc etc...I will be excited to put it to the test when it lands here at my store.
     
  41. joe sackey

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    #39 joe sackey, Jul 7, 2016
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    No question about it, the early cars could keep up with the F40 in a straight line
    33.jpg
     
  42. joe sackey

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    #40 joe sackey, Jul 7, 2016
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    Emilio, the period magazine archives for the early Diablo makes for interesting reading too
    77.jpg
    11.JPG
    66.jpg
    22.JPG
    44.JPG
    55.jpg
     
  43. hashiriya

    hashiriya Formula Junior

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    Yep, it seems that the reviewed US-spec is just about a 1 second slower than the early euro spec one.
    Though they mention the very worn clutch and "launching from a stop was difficult."
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOhTOOtYT9U[/ame]
     
  44. Lemacc

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    #42 Lemacc, Jul 8, 2016
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    The first two pictures were taken in 1991 and the last one in 1990. No wonder fitted with grey mirrors
    Lamborghini newsletter n°7 - Apr.1991 Aguri Suzuki.jpg
    Lamborghini newsletter n°7 - Apr.1991 Nicola Larini.jpg
    diablo-production-early90.jpg
     
  45. Lemacc

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    #43 Lemacc, Jul 8, 2016
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    These pictures were taken on 25 september 1993.
    The yellow Diablo VT is RLA12941 and the black RLA12936.

    Emilio whats the VIN of your car?
    Lambo trip No163 25-9-93 Diablo VT RLA12941.jpg
    Lambo trip No164 25-9-93 Diablo VT RLA12936.jpg
    Lambo trip No166 25-9-93.jpg
     
  46. mikael82

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    last picture front red car has 2wd front spoiler and yellow behind it got VT spoiler. Is that time Italian summer break? is line stopped and masking tape over red car is to keep visitors from sitting in car that has light color interior.
     
  47. EMILIO

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    my car is VIN PLA12861...a bit older but close i think?

    delivered 23.07.1993 at Factory by Lamborghini sales man Paolo Amadelli
     
  48. EMILIO

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    Joe,
    i bought a bunch of old diablo USA-UK magazines from a former diablo owner from the States YEARS ago with some other memorabilia and diablo stuff.

    well before owning my 2wd diablo.

    diablo was my dream car when i was 12 years old. i collected so much stuff on them.
     
  49. EMILIO

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    #47 EMILIO, Jul 8, 2016
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    plate affixed to the car
    anyone can post a pic of a 1990-1991 to compare ?
    20150616_071316.jpg
     
  50. Lemacc

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    Germany
    #48 Lemacc, Jul 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    chassisnumber plates from two 1992 cars
    9.jpg
    SAM_9310.jpg
     
  51. Total Recall

    Total Recall Formula Junior

    Aug 21, 2014
    318
    East Yorkshire, UK.
    Full Name:
    Dominic Bradley

    Hi, cool photos!

    My chassis is RLA12892 on my 93 RHD VT, so I wonder if it was further along that line somewhere - I read they took 17 weeks to make and i`m fairly sure it was completed mid October `93.

    I think my car was actually registered in September in anticipation of it being built lol.

    The warranty card chassis number was filled in with 2 different types of pen (the sequence number probably entered afterwards once they actually saw the finally completed car nearly a month after registration!)


    btw hopefully this link will work - this looks like a prototype - but unfortunately I can`t understand what they`re saying and the music is masking the engine sound!

    I`ve got the Duke video and seen the Diablo / factory documentary but this seems to be part of a different one....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaqNvs47RP4


    Dom.
     
  52. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2008
    632
    Germany
    I read it took 500hours, so if we calculate with 40hours per week around 13 weeks. But anyway back to these days it was all a bit slower so 17 weeks could be possible ;)

    Interesting video, i saw it some years ago but forgot to save the link.
    It seems this is Prototyp 12005 but i have some doubts because of the black interior.

     

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