very early diablo are some of the quickest: Myth or Truth?

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by EMILIO, Jul 5, 2016.

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  1. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #51 EMILIO, Jul 11, 2016
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    i add a picture of the same plate, on a 1994 VT

    would be now nice to see plates from a 1990 and 1991 car

    now that we sourced the plates 1992-93-94 are all the same
    even engine code is the same but we know the engines are different
    010 - TIMG_0160t.jpg
     
  2. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    Here is a german statement copied from a german car forum about the pre-production Diablos. Unforunately only in german:

    "Die ersten Diablos aus dem ersten kompletten Produktionsjahr hatten massive Probleme mit der Verarbeitungsqualität (Fenstergummis, etc...). Es gab damals - zumindest hier in Deutschland - sogar eine IG der ersten Diablo owner, welche zusammengeschlossen mächtig Druck aufs Werk ausübten und so kostenlose und umfangreiche Nachbesserungen an ihren Neuwagen "erzwungen". Erst ab Einführung des VT wurden Probleme und Kinderkrankheiten bezwungen und dazu noch gern gesehene Verbesserungen wie Servo, Fahrwerksverstellung und große Bremse montiert. Ich persönlich würde darum einen großen Bogen um Baujahre vor dem VT machen.
    Mit einer Ausnahme: Die Null-Serie des Diablo! Eine Vorserienproduktion für den Produktionstestlauf und für Marketingzwecke, Fototermine sowie für Journalisten. Diese Diablos sind so "offiziell" nie gebaut worden. Man erkennt sie an der Position der vorderen Blinker und der "cleanen" Heckschürze. Beides ist in der dann folgenden Serienfertigung aufgrund gesetzlicher Bestimmungen noch schnell abgeändert worden. Diese Fahrzeuge sollten eigentlich alle (!) im Besitz des Werkes bleiben und später zu Erprobungstests (Bremse, Fahrwerk,...) verwendet werden. Trotzdem sind wohl eine Handvoll in Privathände gelangt. Wieviele kann ich auch nach all den Jahren nicht sagen. Sie sind so extrem selten auf dem Markt, so dass sie für eingefleischte Lambo-Sammler sicherlich interessant sein dürften. Die wenigsten Diablo-Interessenten wissen von diesen Fakten, darum sind diese Diablos der Null-Serie auch der Unkenntnis wegen extrem günstig. Wenn denn überhaupt zufällig zu finden. In den letzten 5 Jahren konnte ich nur 2 auf dem internationalen Markt aufspüren. Und beide Eigentümer wussten nicht was sie da überhaupt verkaufen wollten.
    ich versuche schon seit langer Zeit hinter die VIN zu kommen. Bisher konnte mir aber niemand sagen bei welcher exakten VIN genau diese Vorserien-Diablos aufhören. Habe dann versucht das Datum für die Änderungen an der allerersten Frontschürzenversion zu bekommen. Null und nix. Selbst in der Teileliste konnte ich für den 2WD nur eine Frontschürze (die der Serie) finden. Heckschürze ohne Katzenaugen gibt´s wohl auch nicht. Wurden an den allerersten Diablos aber so verbaut.
    Hier die allerersten Frontschürzenversion. Dort liegen die vorderen Blinker auf einer Linie mit der Fuge der Fronthaube. Der in vielen Ländern gesetzlich geforderte Maximalabstand zur Wagenaußenseite war zu groß. Darum wanderten die Blinker weiter nach außen und lagen dann auf einer Linie mit der äußeren Kante der Schlafaugen.
    Hier die allererste Heckschürze ohne Katzenaugen/Rückstrahler. Auch das wurde aufgrund gesetzlicher Bestimmungen dann noch geändert.
    Auf Bildern aus sehr frühen Testberichten (meist mit gelben Diablo) kann man diese kleinen Details oftmals erkennen. Diese für Testzwecke und Fototermine gedachten Diablos gingen alle zurück ins Werk. Zumindest fast alle.
    Den gelben kenn ich wohl, an der Murci-Präsentation 2001 stand der auf dem Platz in Bologna, ich muss mal mein Foto-Archiv durchstöbern, entweder war es LLA12002 oder LLA12008. Interessant auch dass es eine L-Chassisnummer ist, = 1990...
    Mindestens ein gelber innen schwarz, ein roter innen beige, ein roter innen schwarz und - glaube mich zu erinnern - ein schwarzer innen rot."
     
  3. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

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    #53 licodix, Jul 11, 2016
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    I can confirm that our 1991 "12327", delivered to a well known Italian collector, is a VERY quick car indeed.
    Surely the feelof acceleration is a very subjectiv experience, based on noise level, potentially spinning wheels, etc.
    At any means this is a seriously fast car. As Lamborghini actually tried to make and deliver in 1990/1991 as many cars as the market would absorb, I do doubt that they really changed a lot on the engines before the 4WD came finally 1993. Why should they have done? Changes do cost time, money and effort and the development of the 4WD was surely the priority.
    Further more they were indeed strugglng with quality Ppoblems so I honestly do not believe they cared about relaibility of down-tuning of European cars. For the US market it may have been different, maybe even different engine set-ups from the beginning.
    All 2WD 1990-1992 cars I know, respectivley their owners, do confirm they are really quick - and fast.
    Apart from this, they are raw, they ask the Driver to perform and they are what you want: a wild Lamborghini, not domesticated and ready to rumble with the F40.
     
  4. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #54 EMILIO, Jul 11, 2016
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    thanks for post:
    can you post a pic of your car identification PLATE? since we have not pics of 1991 cars posted yet...a picture of your car is more than welcome to! :)
    curious to know the name of the italian collector...can you share with us? very likely i heard of him before

    ALL early diablos are wild animals,: 1990 to 1993, hard to drive, hard to master, they accelerate much better than they brakes...absoluterly NOT domesticated and quick.
    this said, it looks like the 2wd are not all the same and probably the very early ones have some differnces that makes them even faster. would be nice to find out what
    the US diablos are slower: timing slightly different, 4 cats instead of 2, bumpers, etc...more weight and less power

    p.s. i am sure the engines were changed in mid to late 1993 2wd diablos.
    they put the same engine as the VT cars, please note that the VT was tested around March 1993 by Autocapital magazine, so the VT engine was already available in early 1993. combine this with the reliability problems of early diablos and we probably have the explanations on the "ibrid cars".

    Also a way to really "test" the VT engine with real customers, on production cars, before the new model would come out. Nobody would notice one or 2 more problems with a 2wd diablo ....while the VT would be different: better the new model to come out without any problems since very first car.

    it is no mistery the VT cars were a succes with press and customers and VT engines more reliable
     
  5. Andrew R.

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    Quickest Diablo I ever drove was the 94 SE30... love that car!
     
  6. gday

    gday Formula 3

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    Translated:

    "The first Diablos from the first full production year had massive problems with the quality of workmanship (window rubbers, etc ...) There were -. At least here in Germany - even an IG the first Diablo owner, which together powerful pressure on the work exercised and so free and comprehensive improvements in its new car "forced". It was not until the introduction of the VT were problems and teething defeated plus like mounted seen improvements such as servo, chassis adjustment and large brake. personally, I would therefore make a wide berth of construction prior to VT.
    With one exception: The zero series of Diablo! A pre-production for the production test run and for marketing purposes, as well as photo opportunities for journalists. This Diablos have been so "officially" never built. They are recognized by the position of the front turn signals and the "clean" rear apron. Both have even changed quickly in the then following serial production due to legal regulations. These vehicles were supposed to all (!) Remain the property of the work and later for experimental tests (brakes, suspension, ...) are used. Nevertheless, probably a handful have fallen into private hands. How many I can not say that after all these years. They are extremely rare in the market, so they certainly should be interesting for hardcore Lambo-collector. Less Diablo interested to know of these facts, therefore this Diablos of zero-series are also of ignorance because of extremely low. If because ever happen to reside. In the last 5 years I could only track 2 on the international market. And both owners did not know what she was trying to sell at all.
    I've been trying for a long time to get behind the VIN. but far I could tell no one at which exact VIN exactly stop these pre-production Diablos. I then tried to get the date for changes to the very first version front apron. Zero and nothing. Even in the parts list I could find only a front apron (the series) for the 2WD. Rear apron without cats eyes not Gibt's well. Were but as fitted to the very first Diablos.
    Here is the very first version front apron. There, the front blinkers are in line with the groove of the bonnet. The law in many countries required maximum distance from the car outside was too great. Therefore the indicators wandered on to the outside and then lay on a line with the outer edge of the sleepy eyes.
    Here the very first rear apron without cat eyes / reflector. Even that was then changed by law.
    On images from very early test results (usually with yellow Diablo) can often detect these small details. This imaginary for testing purposes and photo opportunities Diablos all went back to work. Well, almost all.
    The yellow I know well, was at the presentation Murci 2001, on the square in Bologna, I must go Browse my photo archive, either it was LLA12002 or LLA12008. Also interesting is that there is an L-VIN = 1990 ...
    black At least one yellow inside, beige inside a red, a red inside black and - seem to remember -. a black red inside "
     
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  8. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

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    man, I still feel stupid for not having bought Ralph's se 30. it was a beauty and looking back...a true bargain! ouch...still hurts:(
     
  9. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

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    I think that's LA12007, the well known yellow car. Saw it as well, most likely the car for many car magazines and for sure well tuned...
    Like the press ferraris, highly tuned engines no standard car got normally.
     
  10. Lars_vet

    Lars_vet Formula Junior

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    Interesting thread OP.
    Early cars are indeed FAST.

    Please consider that USA, Swiss and Sweden market cars all have differecne ECUs with different engine mapping to fit the tighter polution requirements. part no. 002029747. These ECUS also have a large "US" sticker on them.
     
  11. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    thank you Lars :)

    would be nice if you can post a pic of yours and the plate of your car
     
  12. EMILIO

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    #61 EMILIO, Jul 12, 2016
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    Diablo proto front
    diablo.jpg
     
  13. Lars_vet

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    #62 Lars_vet, Jul 13, 2016
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    Sure EMILO, below is the engine comparment plate.


    To further add to the thread.

    There was no two major updates for the 91-93 Diablo, sept. 91 and June 92, but primeraly small updates and additions, as;

    -Gauge cluster. Early cars pre sept.91 (please verify) have the upper gauges (speedo/tach) outwards, after that reversed.
    -Sept 91. black trim edge above rear grill added, Fuel rail center trim
    Changed shifter mechanism cluster
    -June 92 (to be verified) Fuel rail and pressure regulator end cover + distributor dust cover added.
    -As mentioned the US/CH/SE cars have a different ECU/mapping to match the markets requiremnts for emission. There is no change of cams, pistons, heads, injectors or intake during the production run, that I can find.
    -Talking to people present during the period, It sounded like a busy time at the factory with the engines produced in bulk paralell with the cars, so no real strict cut-off for changes/VINs.



    My car is produced after june 92, I belive, and now have the mirrors painted body color. But, I was fortunate enough to have a picture of the car when is was new, showing the grey mirrors and mounting plates.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    thank you Lars
    and nice period pic! :)

    i cannot read the VIN on the plate thoug
     
  16. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #64 EMILIO, Jul 13, 2016
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    diablo was not born as a track car

    but was so quick someone thought to race early one and i think even a VT
    this one in pic is not the only one to have been raced in early 90's
    it featured racing seats and very likely some other mods to make it lighter and better on the lap time BUT very close to a production car
    index.jpg
     
  17. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    The driver in this picture is Tomei Hiromitsu from Japan.

     
  18. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #66 EMILIO, Jul 13, 2016
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    yes,
    not to be confused with the later diablo Sandro Munari drove in Targa Tasmania
    i think a VT diablo
    car won production class and arrived third among all, behind 2 pure racers
    Lambo-Targa1-MEDRES.jpg
     
  19. Lars_vet

    Lars_vet Formula Junior

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    12704
     
  20. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    #68 Lemacc, Jul 13, 2016
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    More pics of Tomei during MacauGP 1991.
    diabloMacauGP1991.jpg
    diabloMacauGP1991_2.jpg
     
  21. ace51

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    #69 ace51, Jul 13, 2016
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    I've driven a early diablo (91') and later car (99 SV). I didn't notice much of a power difference but I will say the 99 car is much more refined, and it has the most beautiful dash as opposed to the earlier cars (sorry!)! The dash in the 99+ Diablo's is one of the sexiest.
    autowp.ru_lamborghini_diablo_vt_6.0_7.jpg
    Lamborghini Diablo -  Jay Leno - 05.jpg
     
  22. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #70 EMILIO, Jul 13, 2016
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    while i agree the 6.0 interior is much more refined, i think the 91 more "spartan" interior goes well with the purity of the early machine.

    the pic you posted also show a not so lucky combination and a not completely original interior

    the color combination of this one (which i think is one of the proto diablo) is much more succesfull and more classic for an italian sport car

    if i had to find a fault on the 6.0 interior, which i think is beautiful, is that it looks a bit "german"
    Lamborghini-Diablo-1990-1280-05.jpg
     
  23. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #71 EMILIO, Jul 13, 2016
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    an other interior combination of an early diablo (1990-1991), production model, wich looks fantastic i think

    a less common, but not less beautiful, red & black interior
    1990-lamborghini-diablo-interior-1.jpg
     
  24. EMILIO

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    #72 EMILIO, Jul 13, 2016
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    and an other one that i think still looks great
    photo11.jpg
     
  25. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #73 EMILIO, Jul 13, 2016
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    worth to mention a lot of early diablo have been modified in 25 years

    some were "updated" to look like newer versions: from SV and SVR to GT lookalike
    even some "chopped" ones
    and some higly tuned-modified versions


    some were done by popular tuners, like Strosek, Koenig, etc... (i add a couple pics of them)

    NOT to mention the considerable amount of custom modified diablos we all have seen...the result had not been always a succes

    find today a clean unmolested early diablo is not so easy as some may believe


    i personally think is time to leave them alone, we have probably enough modified early diablos ;)
    2.jpg
    Strosek-Lamborghini_Diablo_mp289_pic_76403.jpg
     
  26. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    Looks like a very like a prototype or early car.
     
  27. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    #75 Lemacc, Jul 13, 2016
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    More pictures of early Diablo days
    7a101745ac.jpg
    39b606afe8.jpg
    1988_01.jpg
    IMG_2356.JPG
    1990_02.jpg
    1990_03.jpg
    IMG_2357.JPG
    IMG_2358.JPG
     
  28. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula Junior
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    #76 Lemacc, Jul 13, 2016
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    Please note the red exhaust tips which reminds on earlier Lamborghini models.
    London Motorfair 1991.jpg
    London Motorfair 1991_2.jpg
     
  29. white out

    white out Formula Junior
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    While the early cars' dash isn't bad, it has nothing on the late cars. That has to be one of the best looking interiors of ANY car.

    I like the cameras strapped to the car. lol
     
  30. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

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    Yes, I agree Emilio.

    I actually went the opposite way with my 91. I bought it with a big brake conversion, and 18 inch Murcielago wheels. Now back to it original condition. Rebuilding the original calipers, installing new rotors, brake lines and new pads I brake with the same confidence as when the Brembo kit was on. The Diablo tracks true now with the original rims and new tires, the Murci rims have a slightly different offset in the rear causing my diablo to wander a bit. Mine actually became more of a pleasure to drive back at all it's original settings. Love the early Diablos
     
  31. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

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    #79 2aftercannonball, Jul 14, 2016
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    Mine
    2016-06-30 19.40.51.jpg
     
  32. Lemacc

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    #80 Lemacc, Jul 15, 2016
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    Some short Japanese had problems with the high dash!
    Beautiful manufactured ;)
    $_57 (1).jpg
    $_57.jpg
     
  33. Lars_vet

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    The early (non modified) cars have such nice interior, especially the seats are some of the best looking in any car.
    And, if you cannot see over the tall gauge binnacle, you probably cant depress the clutch pedal anyway. Go buy a Gallardo. :)

    Yes, the later cars are more modern and comfortable, sure, but they do not scream Italian super car like the original interior do. If anything the 6.0 dash, with the flat carbon face and chrome rings on the dials, always reminded me of a replica. :/

    Here is my interior
    http://www.viaretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/s_int.jpg
     
  34. andecorp

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    #82 andecorp, Jul 16, 2016
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    That was the first VT to arrive in Australia. Early production model.
    I looked at it when it was for sale at Sydney Lamborghini in 2011, but it was rough. It still had the holes in the floor from where the roll cage was fitted and it still had the race harness.
    11.jpg
     
  35. EMILIO

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    that is a car with a very interesting history though...worth to restore (imo)
     
  36. andecorp

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    I agree with you now. But 5 years ago it was just viewed just as a rough car and one to stay away from when there were plenty of other mint VTs for sale.
     
  37. hashiriya

    hashiriya Formula Junior

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    ...without the interesting history.
    Having a race car is a special feel, that a car could realise its potential. I have an 70s race car with roll cage, triple-webers without filters and rich history. Making it stock again would kill it.
     
  38. EMILIO

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    #86 EMILIO, Jul 18, 2016
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    the countach wheels "reinvented" for the early diablo and VT
    still good looking: nice design piece on the early diablo

    again: i think these aged better than some of the later wheels on diablos
    481px-Lamborghini_Diablo_wheel_-_Flickr_-_exfordy.jpg
     
  39. EMILIO

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    #87 EMILIO, Jul 18, 2016
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    i find the diablo is still looking great after 26 years
    10926838_10153058442979169_5191879518792379228_o.jpg
     
  40. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #88 EMILIO, Jul 18, 2016
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    grey mirrors visible on a black USA early car
    images_lamborghini_diablo_1990_1.jpg
     
  41. EMILIO

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    #89 EMILIO, Jul 18, 2016
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    red RHD car: never been a fan of red lamborghinis, but sure it does looks good on this diablo with light color interior and red piping!

    it may be a 93...or it could be an older car with mirrors painted at a later time body colour
    lamborghini-diablo-1990-pictures-177342.jpg
     
  42. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    yes, very true: perception of cars is different today

    5 years ago it was probably a very hard to sell diablo
     
  43. Lars_vet

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    #91 Lars_vet, Jul 19, 2016
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    NLA12416, so produced in 1992. Also a rare black carpet/red car (usually red or tan carpets in red cars)
     
  44. licodix

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    #92 licodix, Jul 21, 2016
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    300 series. 1991 European car.
    EURO sticker on ECU.
    Very quick and raw indeed!
    Pic for comparison of VIN plate.
    20160715_134533.jpg
     
  45. EMILIO

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_b53FszpA[/ame]

    early diablo in an old TOP GEAR episode
    sorry for the bad quality
     
  46. Lars_vet

    Lars_vet Formula Junior

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    Here is my ECU, EU spec Uk delivery.
     
  47. mikael82

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    Picture?
     
  48. SimonSays

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    #96 SimonSays, Jul 29, 2016
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    Mine is NLA12495, April 92 registration in Belgium. Fast as hell, love it.
    If you want a pic of the chassis plate, I have one somewhere :)

    I have :D
    Was still pushing strong at 325 by the way :)

    Another thing is that a lot of the cars are "at least XXX HP" from the factory. So even though 492 was the official number, some cars came with 10 or 20HP more. Heard the same for the Murcie.

    You also have to remember that Ferrari did the same with the F40. None of them had just 478HP. Little differences on a Turbo car can make a big change in HP.
     
  49. EMILIO

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    #97 EMILIO, Sep 13, 2016
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    our 93 diablo at the recent top selection meet in Italy
    6 diablos at the meet, 2 were 2wd and one a early VT
    pic by Andrea Casali
    .facebook_1473759973361.jpg
     
  50. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    #98 EMILIO, Sep 13, 2016
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    the red one looks like a early diablo (note the grey mirrors) with a VT front bumper and a painted rear wing
    the silver one is a VT

    all pics by Andrea Casali
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  51. petearron

    petearron Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Jul 1, 2009
    674
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    jeff
    The early Diablo wheels are pure art make the car. I like them better than Ferrari wheels
     
  52. mrp_e

    mrp_e Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2003
    544
    NYC, BRK, PlmSprngs
    Full Name:
    Bill
    #100 mrp_e, Sep 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    worth it
    IMG_0955.JPG
     

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