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Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by 11506apollo, Nov 9, 2013.

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  1. 11506apollo

    11506apollo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 16, 2008
    2,484
    Tx Co Ca
    Hi fellows.
    I want to get into racing...long overdue dream of mine...looking for some advise.
    buy a race ready track car....?
    Getting into Formula Ford?
    Miata?
    I know I will need some sort of training like a 3 day track course, to get a license..etc...but after getting that, what's the best way to get into this? I know it is not cheap...will need the car, maintenance costs, a trailer, gear, insurance, etc...but it is worth to me...thanks for the patience in answering novice questions. Cheers.
     
  2. speedsport

    speedsport Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2013
    496
    IL/WI
    Full Name:
    Michael
    It sounds like you're leaning towards open wheel. If you've never raced anything before, I would not suggest purchasing anything faster then a FF, regardless of your budget. I'm a bit biased towards FV's, but mainly it's my budget that makes it so.

    Best thing to do is checkout Apexspeed.com. It's a site dedicated to mostly open wheel racing, primarily SCCA. TONS of information over there.

    Edit - missed the Miata part in your post. First thing I suppose is to decide if you want open wheel or closed wheel. From a performance standpoint, it's hard to beat open wheel. Some people just aren't comfortable with the tight cockpits and the wheels sticking out.
     
  3. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    3,179
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Keith Verges
    Attend a local race or 2. The main club racing sanctioning bodies are SCCA and NASA, although BMW and Porsche clubs also sanction races. Ask the participants all of your questions. By all means do a professional school with Barber, Russell, Bondurant or the like.
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
    socal
    You also have to look at what is available in your area. You may love BMW's but find no one in your local SCCA class for it. OTHO a field of 40 SM's banging fenders might scare you.
     
  5. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    I'd recommend starting off in a low HP car such as a Miata, Elise, or Spec Racer Ford (fun open cockpit) to hone skills first. This way you learn lines and braking first before using HP as a crutch to save you when you blow a corner.
    Also, lower running costs - everything will break at one point when you race W2W.
    W2W is exhilarating!
    Then, coaching coaching coaching!!!
     
  6. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    91,702
    what are your goals?

    do you want to do everything yourself (which really means you, your spouse, some friends, your cousin, or whoever you can draft into helping) or arrive and drive?

    what do you want in a car? are you after outright speed? close competition? fun to drive? something with tank-like safety?

    what do you want in competition? would you rather dominate in a small field or mix it up mid-pack with a bunch of guys of equal talent in similar cars?
     
  7. indaville

    indaville Formula 3

    Oct 6, 2005
    2,309
    Louisville, KY
    As others have stated already, spend as much money as you can on coaching. There is no substitute for having a pro improve your driving skills.

    Matt
     
  8. 11506apollo

    11506apollo Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 16, 2008
    2,484
    Tx Co Ca
    thanks for all the inputs folks.
    lots of good info. lots to think about. appreciate the help.
     
  9. CyclingPeaks

    CyclingPeaks Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2006
    361
    Big Island, Virginia
    Full Name:
    Hunter Allen
    Decide where you'll race and what sanctioning body you'll be in. NASA, SCCA, CCR, PCA etc.

    Then look at the cars in those races. See which are competitive and which are not.
    Ask the drivers of the most competitive cars, "what car would you buy had you the opportunity to do it over again?"

    And then buy that car in a used, known and proven winning car.

    I race in NASA and PCA and I was fortunate and bought a car (without any thought really) that was competitive in both sanctioning bodies. Things have changed over the years though and now my 911 gets crushed by the BMW's in NASA unless it's raining then I crush them! Ha!

    And in PCA, they have put the damn Boxster S's in my class and now they are totally crushing everyone and we(the guys that have been in F class for a long time) are racing for second.

    Porsche and BMW both have great club racing opportunities that you can also race in other series. And I would ask drivers that race in those series which are the best cars to race.

    For me, I really enjoy the Porsche raw no power steering, air cooled experience, so I would probably buy an RS America car to do over. They are highly competitive in their class and can also compete in the NASA events well, also.


    Hunter
     
  10. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,464
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Do a three-day competition school, either Skip Barber or maybe better, Bertil Roos.

    Then, rent a spec Miata and go to a NASA SuperComp or SCCA school.

    The Formula Ford idea is a good one, but I would recommend accumulating some wheel to wheel experience before tackling that. The Skip Barber or Bertil Roos series races are a good entry to this experience.

    After that, you'll be able to make a much more intelligent decision and maybe get more out of your subsequent choices! Good luck! It's an awesome addiction!
     
  11. Ryan...

    Ryan... Karting

    Nov 9, 2012
    182
    WI
    If you're leaning towards open wheel as others have suggested, you could start with something cheap and insanely fun; shifter carts.

    125cc, Honda motor (many other options as well), about 50bhp, lightweight, well over 2Gs in the corners, and top speeds over 100mph.

    You can find used ones for between $3-6k, new around $10k. Taking one of those out for a couple track days would let you know if you have the stomach for open wheel racing.

    I haven't done any track days with one, but 15 minutes in a friend's cart was enough to let me know that I NEED one in the near future :D
     
  12. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Quickest, easiest and cheapest way is to start with chumpcar or lemons to get a taste for it. You can rent a ride for fairly cheap and you'll get tons of seat time. I highly recommend chump as they are more serious about the racing (quite serious in fact). Our last race we were running against Ken Schrader and Tom Hessery (and beat their team by a lap!), so there are some definite serious racers in there and they run all over the US at most of the major tracks.
     
  13. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    3,179
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Keith Verges
    Chump may be OK, but IMO Lemons is so far from racing ( I tried it one time) as to be useless and likely to give you very bad habits. I want to try a Chump race as I have heard you get to really race.
     
  14. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    That you do, and it's much more serious. The nice thing about it is that you get to compare yourself to other people driving the exact same car, so there's not really a question of whether it's you or the car that is fast/slow.
     
  15. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,464
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Huh? LeMons and ChumpCar (and I have competed in both) are not a "spec" series in any way. There is no equivalency between cars because they're all different. No driver quality can be measured except among team mates, I'm afraid. If you want to measure yourself as a driver, better pick Spec Miata, Formula Ford, Formula Ford 2000, SRF or something that has a VERY detailed rule book and compliance checking to back it up.

    You could be running against an RX7 with an LS1 in it with your Miata/SR20 hybrid in Chump! The only rules is that there ARE NO RULES! Lol!
     
  16. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    That's what I meant, you can measure yourself against your teammates. In spec racing, I think we all know the cars are not the 'same'. There are setup differences, fresher engines in some etc. If you have 5 teammates racing in the same car with you and you're the slowest, you can't blame the car....
     
  17. pdmracing

    pdmracing Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2007
    755
    atlanta
    Depending on how much you weigh, will be a factor between open wheel & door cars. I don't care how fast you are in a formula ford if you weigh over 200 you will have a problem, just like a cart.

    I like driving slow cars fast and I started out that way, you cannot hide your mistakes in a low HP class. Spec Miata is the best value out there for real racing. Grassroots motorsports has an issue called Pro or Smoe , I think was the name & it has 3 tiers of spec Miata prep and 3 levels of drivers , with the pro Jason Saini breaking the track record in a tier 2 car. ( and when they asked the owner what he learned , he said more power was needed lol)
    The skills of momentum will pay you off, if or when, you step up to something more powerful. I drive 500+ hp cars on the street and strip and barely 150 bhp on the road courses. I have driven more powerful cars but they that didn't mean they were more fun. Going 11/10ths for hours is a lot easier @ 120 than 180! Most people rarely hit moments of 10/10 driving in a powerful car, to be in top 10 in spec Miata you are on it the entire race or getting passed.
    My 90 Miata was the first to break into the 1.22's @ Roebling with turn 3 apex speed @ 97 mph and touching over 110 on exit. Fun & Fast by any measure.
     
  18. Mike Hedlund

    Mike Hedlund Karting

    May 30, 2012
    123
    Woodside, CA
    Full Name:
    Mike Hedlund
    I use a 125cc shifter kart for practicing, and I wouldn't recommend starting your racing adventure in one. They're very hard to drive (well) and very physically demanding.

    I'd echo Peter's suggestion -- take 3-day competition course at any of the nationally recognized race schools. You'll learn the fundamentals you'll need to race and it'll be a (relatively) inexpensive way to see if it's something you really want to pursue.

    -mike
     

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