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track guys with enclosed trailers

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by Carsonp, Jan 17, 2014.

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  1. Carsonp

    Carsonp Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
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    Carson Partain
    Im looking for an enclosed trailer for track days and especially some racing i do which includes some long trips.

    Im looking for advise on what are some musts, what are some must nots. It will be pulled with a new ram 1500 so we are aiming for a just a simple single car trailer. Our current car is only 16' long or so but i want to make sure it will work for whatever happens to come around later as well. Also, besides the car we will have a few sets of wheels, parts, tools, etc..

    Is a 24'er enough? Or should i go a bit larger incase i get a golf cart and/or pit cart?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
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    Ram 1500 is light for more than a aluminum 24' or a steel 20', especially if you're going over the mountains east or west of you. Probably not so much an issue if just doing Brainerd, Autobahn, Road America. The benefits of pulling aluminum (ATC, Featherlite, etc) FAR outweigh the initial higher costs.

    You will fill whatever you have! <grin> Have fun!
     
  3. normv

    normv F1 Rookie
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    #3 normv, Jan 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
    Hello, have to agree with above. Ram is great, 3500 Cummings is better. Youre 1500 is a nice truck around town, not for pulling a enclosed trailer.

    24 ft is fine for a small car with extras, but the sky is the limit, Check here and have fun.
    Towing/Trailers For Sale New and used here!

    Oh and when you get serious, get a Gooseneck trailer as apposed to a bumper pull type. IMHO its even better than a fifth wheel too. Takes up less space in your truck bed, where as a fifth wheel has too much hardware to deal with. The ride and control of backing is so much better than a bumper pull type. Again just my opinion.

    Heres a very nice combo that may be perfect for you and the price is right. http://www.racingjunk.com/Truck-Trailer-Combos/182048976/2000-Pete-totorhome-and-2008-pace-trailer-70k.html
     
  4. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    Jul 8, 2005
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    Buy the LARGEST trailer your truck can safely tow at its fully loaded capacity. Its amazing how quickly one can fill a racecar trailer. My 34' seems so inadequate what with car, golf cart, tool boxes, tire rack and such. I have a Ram 3500 which pulls it with ease.
     
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,294
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    I'm Ram 2500 megacab diesel. a 1500 is very optimistic. Consider a aluminum open trailer or more tow vehicle. There is a lot to safe towing under all conditions.

    Must haves is very personal. I say a winch, tire racks (for wet set and dry set), tool chest, work area, extra ramps connected to door if car is low, awning, generator, E tracks, D cylinder nitrogen
     
  6. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
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    Jul 10, 2008
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    A lot of good wisdom above....

    I have had to tow race cars and race karts for a long time, over multiple tow vehicles and trailers and race cars...

    1) Tow vehicle is ALWAYS a limiting factor. If you're sticking with a 1500, you will be limited by it - capability, comfort, safety, and ultimately maintenance/repair. Before I started having a race team support me, I had an F-350 dually. Uphills with a heavy 28 foot trailer in the summer heat...yawn. Plus I upgraded the brakes for the downhills

    2) Aluminum. it's Lighter and does not corrode. Weight matters. Not sure about others, but my trailers don't get washed like my cars.

    3) Factor in the weight of what you will put in the trailer besides the car....a tool box, D cyl, generator, compressor, tire rack, winch....my old 2200 lb trailer weighed close to 3000lbs before I loaded the car.

    4) I danced with splurging and getting a customized Featherlite or ATC ($$$), I ended up being patient and found a slightly used NASCAR truck trailer that was set up perfectly....saved a lot of $$.

    5) sounds like you are familiar with towing, I'll admit I hitched up and went to a big empty parking lot with some cones early one sunday and paid my friend who owns an excavation company to "train me".....got good at parallel parking the thing. practice matters and adds great peace of mind.
     
  7. JG333SP

    JG333SP Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2010
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    What's the smallest enclosed trailer folks have used-Is it worth getting a 16' for track days maybe a couple of times per yr?
     
  8. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
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  9. Carsonp

    Carsonp Formula 3

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    clearly im not on the same level as some of you folks lol

    I do have access to a chevy 3500 but the problem is its a single cab and we have at least 3 guys (sometimes 4). We used it when we went to road america a couple years back but had a another car too.

    Our local track (BIR) is a very flat drive so i dont see any issues there with my 1500 so long as i dont overload things. I guess if we every go out west or anywhere with a more challenging drive we may have to go the 3500 route.

    So it sounds like an aluminum 24' is the way to go. I see some of them have a interior height of 6'10 which i like. How about a flat front VS a "V" front? Im not sure how i would utlilize the "V". seems a bit akward.

    I guess my dreams of having a large pit cart and a golf cart will have ot wait :eek: :D
     
  10. Carsonp

    Carsonp Formula 3

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    my supra is nearly 16' so that wouldnt leave much room for anyhting else. But, ive seen a guy with an exige in a smaller trailer and if can imagine your a minivan manufacturer you can build space in the floor for spare wheels, fold-away this and that, etc. and it could work just fine.
     
  11. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
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    I have a 20', but I have a small, low car.
     
  12. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
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    #12 Michael B, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Alright. I have some details for you.

    I tow with a 2007 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi quad. No mods past a K&N Filter. I drag a Hallmark 22 Ft enclosed with a load leveling weight distribution hitch and anti sway bars.

    What do I think are all the required bits?

    They are:

    Awning. Installed myself. Full length of trailer. Got it from a RV dealer. Made for a Winnie.
    Large toolbox. All stainless. Large. Heavy when full of tools. Heck, heavy when empty.
    Cabinets. Lots. A row of drawers then large storage. All installed in the front of the trailer & full width left to right. Including stainless counter top /and upper cabinets as well.
    Lights. I have lights in the cabinets, upper & lower and along the roof.
    Winch and deep cycle battery. Installed in the lower cabinets & drawn through the base.
    Spare parts. Loads of them. All in the cabinets. Heavy on bottom, light on top.
    Soft track-mat for working on knees. Bottle jack for changing trailer tires when flat.
    Tire racks. I have one on each side that can hold a full set of mounted rains or spares. Plus I built the rack large enough to hold a spare trailer tire with rim.
    Small storage shelves. I luv my aluminum duct tape storage shelf & my tie-down hangers.
    Wood boards. Need them to load misc low cars.
    Speaking of that. I have an additional aluminum ramp that folds out and is bolted onto my ramp door. That helps too.
    Checkered lightly padded floor. Did it myself. Bought a roll & glued it down. Knee saver.

    With all the above, a racecar inside, my track scooter, a few kids bikes and a floor jack I am looking at just under 9000 lbs. I get 11.2 MPG at 64MPH in that Ram in Tow/haul mode. No it wont tow 80MPH worth a hoot, but it does fine enough that I have towed 30K miles with it that way with no issue.

    I tried a high topper to work the wind, I installed a bubble on the front of the trailer too. But it netted me zero gains. It is what it is. And that is fine.

    Roll on with my blessings.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. Teachdocs

    Teachdocs Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2012
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    Does your Ram 1500 have the factory towing package?
    What is the gear ratio for the rear differential?
    What motor package do you have?

    24 foot seems to be the sweet spot for enclosed single car trailers, especially when it comes to resale. But, I think you will have to rethink your tow vehicle if you go with a 24 foot. It will require at minimum: big motor, factory tow package, weight distributing hitch, bag levelers. Even then, it will tow the package but it won't be fun and the margin for safety is very thin.

    An 18 foot V-nosed with shorter height is probably the best you can hope for with your tow vehicle. I sent you a PM about one. Check your messages.

    Good luck!
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You know one other thing to consider is what you are racing. Will the car class or car be trackside labor intensive? That will determine how much other stuff you need to carry and the tools you will need to install them with. That means extra weight! I see SFR guys with cars apart all the time. Many carry their own scale setups too. I started in SCCA T1 nearly a spec class of corvettes that got killed in the SCCA reorganization. Some of us stayed in the new T2 (a detuned pre-reorganization T1) while others opted to go faster in the new T1 more like the defunct STO or dual class to GT2 with wings and splitters and engine modifications. The result is that those in T2 sit around all day waiting to go on track. The T1/GT2 guys are fixing their cars all day hoping to get on track. A classic example is I race today at 3pm. We have a 10 min practice this morning. I live close to the track. I'm going to show up at 2:15 and get ready to race. A couple of the T1/GT2 guys have to go out this morning to see if their cars work from the repairs they were doing in the dark last night. Also, if you race a GM car it is pretty easy to get parts anywhere so you don't have to carry around a spare axle, steering racks etc which is more weight.
     
  15. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    I tow about 8000#gross weight 35' trailer 'with a RAM 1500 with the 5.7... power is adequate for occasional use, the real issue is in the suspension... the 1500 is too light for much towing... towing becomes demanding... 3500 diesel with dual wheels makes towing comfortable... the 3500 diesel is not always available which makes me hate the 1500 for towing... a good compromise for towing could be a gas 2500...

    a couple of must get things that get used all the time in the trailer is a generator and air compressor... for us they are must haves
     
  16. JG333SP

    JG333SP Formula 3

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    Nice-truth is have gotten close to picking up one even slightly smaller-you see some great bargains when the snow mobile season ends/etc-but I know I'd be kicking myself the first time I wanted to transport something bigger than the GT4
     
  17. Carsonp

    Carsonp Formula 3

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    mines a 5.7 with the tow package. I dont recall the gearing but i know it isnt the 3.91s. i think its the 3.55 but id have to check.
     
  18. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
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    #18 Michael B, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
    Now why would you say that when I clearly posted that my less power 2007 Hemi is perfectly fine with a 22 foot flat nose full height trailer? And I mean perfectly fine. It is never a risk, and never uncomfortable.

    I dunno but I think actual experience with his same tow rig (like I have) seems to be a bit more valid opinion - I am just say'n. Listen. I have the same set up. You are fine. Rams are not generic F150 or Silverados. Rams are real horses. Don't forget that.

    If you Carson are rolling a new Hemi you have 50 more HP than I and similar torque. You need not shy away from the vehicle you already own (with a factory rated 10k+ tow capacity). Cripes, these peeps will have you trading it in for some semi-rig soon. BTW I am not knocking a 2500 as I am sure it would tow better, but I have towed with Rams for years. 9000 lbs is 1500-able.
     
  19. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    of course towing with a RAM 1500 is doable ( mines rated for 12000#) ... even with the upgrade suspension towing can be a handful. The suspension is too soft and the torque is barely adequate, especially when there is a 3500 diesel to compare with... there is NO contest that the 3500 is better. Not saying to get rid of a 1500, if one is owned but to be aware that there are better choices. ,
     
  20. Teachdocs

    Teachdocs Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2012
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    Glad to hear you are enjoying your set up and it works for you. It is certainly doable. I have done that too. But......it's not ideal to tow a 9000-10000 pound trailer with a 1/2 ton truck, regardless of what engine it has. The hemi is a marvelous power plant and has more than enough power for this kind of tow requirement! but engine is only part of it. Subjecting the transmission, differential, and brakes to maximum capacity will undoubtedly put more wear and tear on the vehicle.

    The OP asked about what type of trailer would be ideal with his tow vehicle. A 24 foot fully loaded trailer at 10K pounds is not ideal for his truck. A better suited choice is a low height 18 footer with minimal accessory gear other than the car to keep the weight under 7-8000 pounds.

    At the end of the day, the label on the door shows the maximum allowed combined vehicle weight and weight over each axle and towing capacity. Even if you use a weight distributing hitch, larger springs or helper bags, or higher load tires, the label is what defines the capacity of that truck. If you are ever in an accident or you get pulled over and checked, you better not be over those numbers or you will be in some trouble.

    As a good rule of thumb, you should not exceed 80% of a vehicles tow capacity. Depending on the exact model and options list the OP has on his truck, this will be somewhere around the 8000 pound range. Tongue weight is also a consideration, especially if a WDH is not used.

    Towing a 10K load with a 1/2 ton truck is certainly pushing the limit, thus my comment about a super light 18 footer. When towing my 24 footer, with cabinets, tools, awning, generator, fuel, spare tires, and the car thru the mountains around Highlands, NC, the 3500 struggles at times and even has to be in 4x4 high or the read wheels will spin on some of the tight curves with an 8-9% grade. That trip would simply not be possible with a 1/2 truck and that trailer.

    Short trips, fairly flat terrain, and an incredibly patient and alert driver would work for a 1/2 ton with a 10k load. Throw in any other variable and you are asking for trouble in my opinion.
     
  21. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
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    Fair enuf Cheeser & Teacher. I get your drifts completely.

    I complete concur that any 2500 (not to mention a 3500) is a better tow, however I just could not see throwing the baby away with the dirty bath water - like what was practically being recommended. I am stunned that I am the only guy here fiscally responsible enough to explain that he could keep his 1/2 ton! Its a good truck.
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Well you can add me to the list too. Teachdocs and I agree completely. I don't know where the OP lives or tows but I'm in L.A.. The roads are fit for 4 wheel drive. The drivers are distracted, aggressive, and lack ability. In a streetcar it is war. Towing is combat driving. You want lots of headroom when you tow for safety, comfort, and performance. Our grapevine is 6-8% grade sometimes with snow. With a Ram 2500 diesel you got a large vehicle the trailer does not push around in wind, bad roads, or bad conditions. I can set my cruise control, diesel exhaust brake, integrated electronic brake controler, and tow/haul mode and drive down the grade touching only my steering wheel. The truck practically drives itself! You can't do that in a 1500.

    I first towed with a 1500. It was fine ignorance was bliss. Then a 2500 gaser, and I thought I was in heaven. Now a diesel 2500 and I'm never going back.

    The worst part about using a 1500 is that often it is a rookie's first tow vehicle. That's a hazard when you don't know any better. That may not be michealB scenario at all. A 1500 is totally doable you just don't have the headroom you should have and if you know what you are doing when towing you can be just fine. The Ram 1500 is a great truck. It will tow fine if you keep away from it's limits. I like the 80% rule and fine trailers tow better on the heavy side of the tongue weight usually about 25%.
     
  23. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    #23 cheesey, Jan 20, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
    something else to consider is the distance ( tongue length ) from the hitch to the wheels... the longer this distance the better the tow...short tongue length leads to poor handling ( dancing ), weight placement becomes more critical which includes where the car must ride ( in trailer ) and other stuff is placed in the trailer... a few inches can be significant... also a lot of weight can be misplaced in a hurry with indiscriminate loading of odds and ends... (one of the reasons a goose neck or 5 wheel tow better )... a longer trailer will tow better than a short one just because there is room to move stuff around to keep things in balance... don't be fixed on a short trailer. extra length does not add to the drag but goes a long way in flexibility... also note that a longer trailer tongue can be ordered or replaced which will help with towing balance ( it's a lever, a longer lever lifts the same weight with less effort... think tongue weight )

    make sure you are familiar with your state's laws (DOT) and the states you will travel to.
    being in violation can ruin an event if stopped for compliance or create liabilities not covered by your insurance ( known as breach of warranty ). Not all trailers sold are 50 state compliant ( when buying new get a 50 state compliance cert )... most of the regs deal with brakes, overhang, and proper lighting... some states require all axles to have brakes, some states require that trailer meets mimimum stopping distances, etc
    Fines and time lost will ruin an event, if you get there. Best to know where you stand. We also race a boat with a wide load and over length ( 70'+). We make sure we check ALL the boxes and get all the required permits... been always in compliance over the many years... I have heard horror stories ( true ) about being stranded until in compliance and fines paid...

    get a scale to check the tongue weight before you hook up... all trailer suppliers have them, slips under the hitch, IT IS THE BEST MONEY YOU WILL SPEND for towing...
    you may even give this forum time to gather before you kiss our collective butts :=)
     
  24. Carsonp

    Carsonp Formula 3

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    I appreciate the help guys.

    The 1500 isnt going anywhere (just got it a couple weeks ago for a daily). Im going to use it for the local track days and maybe the local race (once a year) depending on how the 1500 handles a real full load (all the tools and parts).

    For the longer trips and maybe when fully loaded i will use a 3500 and a 2nd vehicle for the "team".
     
  25. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2011
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    you will be OK staying local, no need to scrap a new truck... load it and trailer carefully, be aware of the tongue weight etc... take it easy the first few times until you get a feel for what is going on... take a cue from the rental agencies... they all suggest a speed limit of 45 mph... they rent trailers to all sorts... they should have a handle on the consequences... tows can appear be stable until you hit a magic speed number, which doesn't need to be high or over the speed limit... it's like having a bad set up and losing down force on the track... it usually comes without warning

    you will pick up experience towing and will be good, then it's about refining what you have.
    We are speaking from experience which allows us to be critical.

    for longer trips many rent a U-Haul box truck for a tow vehicle, which allows for less stress towing and take more stuff
     

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