Race suits, big name vs local made

I had a beautiful Leaf (Canadian made) race suit I bought at CSC racing in Newmarket. It was a $900 suit that they put on sale for $650 during the spring sale. This was a few years back mind you, but the quality was fantastic and it was super comfortable.

I have pics somewhere. I think my shoes were Simpson, but I can't recall. I sold everything when I sold my race car.

My suit was red - which matched my race car of course .

IIRC correctly, you may need Nomex underwear with a 2 layer suit for competition, but I believe my suit was 2 layer and was made in such a way that did not require underwear. A 3 layer back then was ok without underwear.

You'll need shoes, socks, gloves and a balaclava to get the full safety benefit and don't wear street clothes underneath.

You're correct - Leaf suits are made to the same requirements as any other suit as long as the stated purpose is the same (ie - they make single layer suits for go-karting)


Go see CSC, they'll set you up unless you really want the Italian suits (I like 'em for the bling factor, would I feel safer?? Not really)

 

The newest Sparco suit is noticeably thinner and cooler than anything else I have seen on the market but it is in the $1500 range.
If fit and comfort is important, then the higher end suits will better fit that need. Otherwise get a 400-500 suit for casual track days and you will be fine.

 

I track in a used Air Force flight suit. IMO fancy race suit is big waste of money to DE in a street car. I race in full safety gear.

 

is the Air Force suit fire rated? that's a clever idea.

 

Yes it is nomex. It has no FIA or SFI tags
However

 

cool, I had no idea those suits were nomex...might have to find a surplus store what did you pay for it? how heavy and breathable is it?

 

I have a Nomex SFI 3.2A/5 suit for tracking/DE's and another suit for karting. I went with K1 Racegear product since they're one of my sponsors.
The way I see it, fire doesn't care what kind of event or car you're in; and egress from a crumpled up sportscar may be a bit more time consuming than a track car with a cage.

K1 Race Gear Auto Racing Suits

 

My flight suit is hand-me-down from a colonel buddy who made general. Very comfortable light and breathable which is perfect for summer. I suppose it is safer to have an FIA suit for DE, but I have yet to see a fire injury at any DE and I think it is safer to be cool and comfortable and I am not wearing 3-layer Nomex for lapping in my Miata track car or street cars. And as a racer I am a gear snob and think race suits at DEs are just too much. I suit up to race.

 

I looked into custom suits and suits from smaller manufactures. One thing I noticed is that you can get an SFI label but some small makers suits are FRP cotton vs. nomex. So you gotta check. Most suits in the low end of the price range tend to be FRP. I'm still a big fan of nomex. The nomex does not change after a zillion washings. What happens to a treated cotton after a bunch of washings? I do not know if treated cotton is fire proof forever. Nomex fireproof nature is inherent in the fabric. one of the important things to wear in HPDE is all cotton because any synthetics that burn will melt into your skin and make for very painful extraction of that material. Typically recommended are long sleeve cotton shirts. Some do not require gloves. I get good grip with gloves and never drive without them. It is too much of a hassle to read my labels to see what my cloths are made of the day of an HPDE. It is so much easier just to put my nomex suit on and much easier to not forget the stuff you need to go to the track. Even doing HPDE there is a lot of stuff to bring.

 

There is conflicting information about the removal of protection from treated fabrics such as Proban. The claim is that the treatment forms a polymer of some sort that is permanent but many sources state that the treatment can be removed after only a few washings. Keep in mind that one of the big advantages of Nomex is that there is no shrinkage when exposed to heat or flame and it does not split or crack.
People should also keep in mind that burns are caused by heat transfer not just naked flame and so multiple layers are the best protection.
Flight suits come in 2 different weights of Nomex with the winter weight being a 7oz fabric offering better protection than the light weight summer suit. Having said that neither is SFI certified so may not be legal for your requirements.
Make sure that your shoes and shoe laces fall under what fatbillybob said above: NO SYNTHETICS. Nylon melts and fuses to skin folks - shoelaces included.
For me I wouldn't step into a car on track without the best safety equipment I could buy but, disclaimer, I worked in that industry for a number of years, have visited some of the factories and worked very hard educating people on this topic.

 

I share a similar mindset as being on the 'inside' of things, not just as a participant. In the events I do, I advocate safety as much I can to get every participant home safe & sound. More of my history- I founded a HPDE/club event at Road America back in 2000 and there are 'incidents' of some sort at nearly every event and over the years there have also been a few fires- thankfully none of our drivers have been burnt.

 

John and Stig closer to the biz...Can you comment on the new ultra light suits that meet SFI 3.2A/5 requirements vs. the original heavy 3 layer units that originally met that spec. Are the new lighter suits really just as safe as the old 3 layer 3.2a/5 and do they maintain that level of safety over their life?

 

The corollary to my question above is has anyone done studies on old suits to see if they maintain their rating and or what are the common things that kill a suit so it no longer does its job?

 

I'll answer best I can and am open to correction here.
When looking at the older 3 layer suits try to find the TPP value to compare to the 2 layer suits. The TPP is an indicator spec as to how long the wearer can be exposed to fire/heat and be resistant to 2nd degree burning. The SFI 3.2A/5 rating in general states protection from 2nd degree burns for a minimum of 9 or 10 seconds, which is a TPP rating of 19. Most 2 layer SFI 3.2A/5 spec'd suits are going to be in the mid 20's and 3 and 4 layer are going to be higher. The higher the TPP, the more time you have before becoming BBQ. The thinner/lightweight 2 layer suits are made of more expensive lighter materials than their heavier counterparts.

The more layers you have the hotter you'll be unless you look at a suit with thinner multiple layers. The air gap between the skin and suit becomes a thermal barrier, so you don't want a suit too tight when sitting. A thinner suit can be compromised more easily by abrasion (knees, elbows & etc), so keep that in mind when kneeling down on the ground to change brake pads or inspect the car between sessions if you don't remove the suit.

I'm not sure if the materials 'decay' over time, but if materials harden or otherwise change or wear out there is a chance of degrading from original specification over the course of many years.

 

also - never use fabric softener when washing a suit.. and don't wash a red suit in warm water when the cuffs are white'ish Nomex... apparently they turn pink (do you know how I know that??!

 

Biggest issue in degradation of a Nomex suit is chemical contamination. The material itself does not degrade over time except through wear and tear. Chemical contamination means if you spill fuel or any flammable liquid on the suit you've created a path for the fire through the material. The Nomex still doesn't burn - but the oil or gasoline that permeated the fabric sure as heck does.
Never never never work on your car while wearing your suit and have it professionally cleaned or clean it at home using Molecule Nomex wash. There is a risk that a laundry detergent may leave a flammable residue.
Finally, repair a suit ONLY with Nomex thread - it should be obvious but people still use cotton or, heaven forbid, synthetics to stitch a patch or repair a tear creating another pathway for fire through the Nomex suit.

 

The new suits from Alpinestar, OMP and Sparco (the ones I am most familiar with) are light years ahead of the old stuff. They are much lighter, breathe better, more comfortable and you can get a single layer suit that meets the certification of a 2 or 3 layer suit. Of course you pay for it with suits like the new Sparco Extrema running up to $2300.00 off the shelf but you can get a very nice top quality suit for around $1400 that blows away the old Simpson or other suits which were heavy, uncomfortable and didn't breathe at all.
Safety level is maintained over the life of the suit. The only question mark for me, and I just haven't kept up with this, is the new cooling treatments applied like Sparco's X Cool. I've honestly no idea how they hold up.

 

The way I looked at it when I was buying racing suites for DE and "track events" is that fire doesn't care whether you are racing or you're out on the track for a DE event. If you are spending the money to a suit, why not do it right. I had a 3-layer Nomex suit, FIA rated, that I got on sale at a local race shop. It was a Sparco suit, and they had stopped carrying Sparco, it was their last one, and it fit me. So I saved a couple of hundred bucks. Worked for me. I also picked up a Momo suit a couple of years after that the same way. Also, pick up some Nomex socks, Nomex lined driving shoes, Nomes lined gloves and a balaklava and/or Nomex lined helmet.

If you've ever been burned, even a minor burn, you know what it feels like. If you've never been burned, you don't want to know what it feels like. People who think that just because they are doing a DE or track day event, that they are somehow safer than if they were racing are just kidding themselves. True race cars have fuel cells and other protection to prevent a fire. Many street cars, especially older cars, are not as well protected, and a crash at the track could easily lead to a fire. Also, many older cars when pushed hard can end up with a gas leak and start a fire. I had a close call with a Mondial QV many years back up at Lime Rock. Fortunately, I was able to pull off the track when I saw the smoke in my mirror, right in front of a worker station, and they put it out with a fire extinguisher before it did any real damage. Believe me, after that I was always very careful about making sure I was wearing my fire protection gear on the track.

 

This.

I have never understood the logic of a DE being safer than a race. You're going just as fast in the DE.


To the OP, find a suit that is comfortable for you. As was stated earlier, newer technology suits are much nicer than the older technology.

We have a few people that wear flight suits. Personally I like the idea. They are light weight and extremely comfortable. And it's easy to add nomex underwear if you want more protection.

 

DE is unquestionably safer than racing. Overtaking is completely different and done only with permission, there is no green flag start with everyone in proximity and the entire mind set is different and less agressive in DE. And most DEs I have attended you are not going as fast as racers. I enjoy both but DE is like kissing your sister compared to racing and "safety" measures are needed more for racing and real kissing, since both are more dangerous.

Be safe of course, but don't make me get out the pyramid of speed.

 

What Keith says makes sense and is conventional wisdom. I am reminded of the fact, however, that many HPDE'ers have cars like stock C6 Z06's with stock seatbelts and a helmet. On our fastest local track that means 160mph entering a banked NASCAR turn at autoclub speedway with minimal track skills . Many HPDE guys drive so little that they deathgrip steering wheels and have redmist about why they should get a point by with their only passing skill being the right foot. Further they tend to make inexperienced decisions and routinely ignoring flags. While taking a green flag mid-pack can be heart racing I have also seen too many silly HPDE errors.

Here's one 130mph open streetcar cobra at one of our local tracks
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-9XSOM5eIo]Cobra Crash Willow Springs, Short version 130 mph - YouTube[/ame]

 

Fatty makes a good point. Limited talent guys with penis extension cars should wear maximum safety gear. Me, My favorite car has under 100 hp because of the cardinal rule that I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow