drive what % car's performance?

It's arbitrary and doesn't mean anything in hard numbers. I'd say if you're 10 seconds slower in the same car, you're closer to 75%. If you're 2-3 second off, you're 90%. If you're 1 second off, you're 95%. That last 5%/1second are the toughest to access, though.

 

That tells you how many people can get 95% out of their cars, not many.

 

Just remember that a pro paid to extract a fast lap will take risks that the owner may choose not to. Are you ready to ball your car up and/or write it off during a meaningless track day in order to get another tenth or two? Is the juice worth the squeeze?

CW

 

I don't think it means much at all. Take Probst at laguna he has had the Zr1 out twice and in the dry the times are 2 sec apart. I just did the Runoffs in our class the pole was 2 seconds faster than race pace fast lap. Track conditions seemed the same but the track was slower on raceday. What matters is what are your times relative to others in similar equipment realizing that car set-up matched with driver style are a few seconds right there.


http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

 

I tend to agree with this. More so these days. Maybe it's always been like that and I'm just realizing, but before this web, Car and Driver used to sell the cars.

 

Well I get 120% of the thrill I thought I would every time I drive my car, except stuck in traffic getting to the back roads ...... Then I am at 10%.

 

It's not that racing classes have rules of competition that keep them fairly even, it's that you are just amazingly fast.

Seriously though, crazy HP to Weight, suspension, tires, nanies, and a million other things come into play at a DE where there are no rules. You can't compare times unless you are running a car that meets the class rules, apples and oranges

 

Your formula doesn't really map to what drivers mean when they speak in terms of percentages. If you take _twice_ as long to get around the track as Randy Probst in the same car, you're not using 50% of the car's performance. You're using none of it.

 

I'm in SCCA having run T1 for years and now T2. There is a huge difference in laptime between T1 and T2. It is unlikely that T1 and T2 had comparable laptimes unless what you are seeing is driver related. Since 2013 the new T1 is like the old STO with lots of legal mods. Old T1 cars which chose to stay in T2 are like old T1 cars with inlet restrictors and lots of weight. My T2 corvette now has to run with 55mm inlet restrictor, less camber, no headers, smaller tires and 300Lbs extra ballast! So just because you see a vette you have to see what is done to it.

Also, even if track conditions look the same they vary from day to day. I just got back from racing the Runoffs where in my class quali and raceday track conditions were nearly the same but the difference between pole and race pace fast lap on new tires were -2 seconds off.

 

Get a pro coach to sit in your right seat if you want to extract all you can out of the car, but you had better be ready to write it off as running to the limit means you are at the limit, and a track like LRP likes to eat cars. My best in a 190 HP 911 SC with Hoosier R6's (PCA Stock D class) at Limerock is 1:00.7.... again, apples to oranges.

 

Starting to sound like the Kobayashi Maru...

 

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Quantitative analysis can only be done in a race environment with legal cars of a given class and with track conditions identical, so really only in a given session. DE is just for fun and trying to quantify pace and talent is futile or worse asking for trouble. You sound like you want to start comparing pace and skill, so get a race car and go racing. That's what I do. When I drive DE I more often than not don't even keep lap times because I know where that can go.

 

+1

 

From my website: “Tenths,” and their appropriate use on the track...

When I describe "tenths,” or the system of assigning a relative speed, level of concentration or demonstration of car physics on-track to someone, it usually follows these definitions.

3/10 is driving on a flat, straight and level road with no distractions.

4/10 is driving on a gently curving Interstate with low traffic density at a higher rate of speed than at 3/10.

5/10 is driving quickly, but efficiently and at the speed limit on the street, more concentration required due to more "hazards" present.

6/10 is a standard DE lap or an out lap early on in a race weekend, for me. The purpose may be to re-familiarize myself with the race track, enjoy a relaxed lap or just "cruise" around and, in particular, designed to take NOTHING out of the car. This is also the level of driving quickly on the Interstate with a fair bit of traffic at higher speeds.

7/10 is a more aggressive DE level, designed to begin to "move the car around" and just a little more taxing on the car. Also, 7/10 can be an out lap later on in a race weekend, usually the result of greater confidence and familiarity. Relatively wide variation in lap time depending on traffic and concentration.

8/10 is an easily sustained level, requiring high levels of concentration, generally attained after the first few laps of a race or enduro when the dust settles and you slide into driving quickly and accurately, but are not locked in a battle that is external to you and your car. The car is sliding, but only at the beginning or the end of a corner and not at all corners and not on all laps. Generally laps are within .8-1.5 seconds apart and relatively consistent. This is the level I am most comfortable taking people around the track. Plenty of "headroom" and margin for error or changeable track conditions.

9/10 is driving pretty hard, but is sustainable, repeatable and the driver is still relatively accurate in their placement of the car. The car is now sliding much of the time, the driver is focused on catching someone or staying ahead of someone but is maintaining control and discipline of their own mind and of the car. At this point, the driver is using most of the width of the road, but not much curbing, and is focusing on drawing large arcs with the path of the car. The rhythm is such that the lap times are generally within .2 -.8 seconds apart, barring traffic or mistakes. This is my limit for one or two "hot laps" with someone riding with me.

9.5/10 is driving hard. More sliding, slightly quicker laps still than at 9/10. Less margin for error, a lot more work being done by the car. The driver is now "guiding" the car on a path selected well in advance. The car is sliding from turn-in, through the apex and is using the entire width of the paved track, plus the inside curbs. Cannot generally be sustained for more than five or six laps. I would not drive a car at this level with a passenger in it...

10/10 is when the skill level of a substantially experienced and supremely confident driver meets the competence level of the car nearly perfectly. The car is sliding nearly the entire lap. Slip angles of 7-12 degrees (DOT radials, less on radial slicks) are sustained through the entire length of most of the corners. The entire width of the road, plus the inside and outside (if available) curbing or pavement extensions are used, every corner, every lap. The previous lap is at 9 or 9.5/10 so that the "hot" lap is started at the greatest possible speed and with the highest possible concentration.

Typically, I drive 10/10's for one or two qualifying laps and my first few laps of the race to build a "gap" to the rest of the competition. I also drive 10/10's to experiment with changes made to the car or to evaluate tires in practice, not to mention putting in a "flyer" to achieve the psychological advantage of being on or near the top of the time sheet <grin>.

I may not drive 10/10&#8217;s more than a few laps during the weekend, but I pick and choose the time to do it. I feel like the car and I are balanced on a tightrope and I am constantly making tiny little corrections to adjust it's trajectory, with each correction making a difference... I'm not sure this level can be sustained more than two or three laps at a time. In order to be successful at the highest level of most organized competition, you must be able to drive at this level.

11/10's is when your talent runs out! <very big grin>

 

I have always figured it was a relative ratio as to how hard one is driving of one's ability/capability. So it is a relative term. My 10/10ths is not the same as FBB's 8/10ths. But then I have wrecked a car yet. Usually when it comes up in conversation it describes how hard one is trying, not to describe the ability to wring out a car's capabilities. The former makes sense, the latter is a disaster waiting to happen. I will not get in a car if I know the driver is hell bent on utilizing the vehicle's 10/10th performance envelope. Let the clown risk his own life testing the limits.

 

I drive flat out.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8]Trackday Comedy - FLAT OUT - YouTube[/ame]

 

I'm sure every instructor can relate to that!

Possibly more interesting discussion? Moving the guy DOWN in the run groups!

CW

 

Drive 10/10ths and on occasion you will do a spin or off. A long time ago I had a Nat scca license and drove some short track stock car. Cage,6 points,aeroquip ,fuel cell,fire system,hat,suit,gloves. Cars tend to get used up and you want to go 100 percent in a street car. You have BIG jewels. Have very good medical and life insurance. GTS Bruce

 

That's relative to your performance, not the car. A champion level pro driver (f1/LMP/DTM/Indy champion) may be able to get 10/10's out of your car, but you driving at 10/10's, even being a very good driver, may only get 9.5/10's out of it.

A wreck should not happen driving at 10/10's unless you lose concentration or have a mechanical failure (or are really green) or driving a 911. I've pushed at and past 10/10's many times (I find it's the quickest way to find the limit) and the results were generally slower lap times due to over correction and having to lift to get the car back in shape with the occasional flat spotted tire. I've never actually spun a car on track despite this, though I have taken a few trips across the grass, but that's a lot better than and safer than a spin. My 10/10's might get me to 9/10 of the cars limit (and maybe not for a whole lap), though.