Racing harness pull-up vs. pull-down

The F430C was supplied with pull-down style lap belts as part of the 6 point restraint system. Pull-down lap belts are somewhat difficult for the driver or an assistant to get tight. If the strap tail is long enough, you can thread it thru the seat side opening and pull the left strap tight against the other strap, but that's about it.

Pull-up lap belts are easier to tighten by the driver or an assistant. FIA requires the mounting bracket to be sewn into place, making the location of the lap belt adjustment buckle somewhat of a problem on these cars.

If you use quick snap ends, rather than bolt on ends, the distance between the attachment at the eyelet and the adjustment buckle will put the buckle just outside the seat opening. Recommended distance away from the opening is at least 1 1/2inches to allow for belt stretch on impact and prevent the buckle from being inadvertently loosened by the seat.

The OEM mounting holes and location of the seat and lap belt openings thus prevent the use of a pull-up lap belt. If you use bolt on belts, the clearance is improved slightly, but still not sufficient for a safety margin.

So what can be done?

I thought about using an extender bracket that would be bolted to the floor and have a ring on the other end for the quick snap bracket to attach to. These are sometimes used in a C6 Vette to utilize the factory seat belt mounts.

This would put the pull-up adjustment bracket just inside the seat opening and onto the hip/lower abdomen area.

Has anyone done this or come up with an alternative solution for a pull-up lap belt in the F430C?

Ideas, comments, criticisms welcomed.

Thanks!

 

Thanks for the input!

I have studied the Schroth guide in detail already.

As best I can tell, every F430C that I have seen, and I believe OEM were pull-down style lap belts. I am working on a solution for a pull-up style.

My situation is exacerbated by the need for my seat to be as far back as possible and as low as possible in the rear brackets. These two things make the distance between the OEM attachment point and the seat opening even shorter. The clip anchor sewn is a fixed distance from the adjuster. The seat opening is not large enough for the adjuster to slide thru it. At present, the adjuster sits just outside the seat opening but this leaves a tiny bit of slack between the adjuster and the anchor point, so that is not acceptable. The Schroth guide recommends the adjuster be a minimum distance of 1.5 inches below the seat opening. This is simply not possible with the snap sewn anchor style to the OEM mounting location.

In addition, the space on the tunnel side of the seats, between the seat and the center console, is so tight that there is no way to flip the adjuster lever backwards to release the belt.

The only way to make this work would be to relocate the lap belt anchor locations as far rearward as possible, to sit directly in front of the rear shelf ECU covers on the floor pan. That's not an option for me.

So the alternatives are to extend the distance between the sewn quick anchor to the attachment location via an extender piece which would then relocate the adjuster to the lap area instead outside the seat or to use pull-down belts.

I'm looking for some kind of extender and think I have sources one, or can fabricate one. But the question is: is it acceptable to have the adjuster sit on your lap in a pull up configuration (like it does in the pull-down configuration)? Has anyone done this and how did it work?

I would love to hear from anyone who has out a set of pull-up lap belts in a F430C and how they did it unless the seat is way forward.

Schroth makes an adjustable 2 inch lap belt that has the 3 bar slider on each end so you can convert it between a pull-up and a pull-down style just by swapping the ends. But this is a 2 inch, not sewn, and so not FIA approved.

Good point about the sub belt mounting location. With the seat all the way back, this also creates a bit of an issue as the sewn snaps are bunched together at the seat hole even with the anchor points in the farthest rearward holes.

I'll try to get some pics to assist with the discussion and problem solving.

 

Link to Schroth installation guide:

Installation- and Operating Instructions

Idea for an extender to the sewn snap anchor but I don't think these would add enough length to get the adjuster on to the lap area inside the seat.
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Link to Schroth installation guide:

Installation- and Operating Instructions

Idea for an extender to the sewn snap anchor but I don't think these would add enough length to get the adjuster on to the lap area inside the seat.
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Longer lap belt bracket.
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A video showing the current situation.
OMP lap belt, pull-up style, with sewn snap anchor.

https://vimeo.com/130635323

 

Video of the tunnel side with the additional clearance problem to release the belt.

https://vimeo.com/130636572

 

These are the belts that were in the car and need to be replaced.
The bottom belt is a Schroth and was the driver's belt in a pull down style.
The top belt is a Sabelt and was in the passenger side in a pull up style.

The new belts are OMP and very similar to the old Sabelt in a pull-up style.

 

I agree completely with your comments about seat base and anchor mounting.

The OEM seat and anchor points are located on OEM bracing that is substantial. To add an additional brace at the rear would be a substantial endeavor as the aluminum weld locations on the tunnel are right along the big wiring looms. Not saying it can't be done. Just saying it isn't going to get done in one week before loading the car and heading to RA.

Ferrari raced these cars many, many times, with tall driver's and sure some of the seats were all the way back. They seemed to think the mounting and anchor locations were acceptable. Not saying I completely agree with that, but that's what's been done successfully for a long time.

If there is anyone who has created new, additional, or relocated seat/anchor points in a F430C, I am all ears.

The simple, most immediate solution is to use a pull-down adjuster style lap belt and hook up to the OEM anchor points just as it came from the factory.
I don't have a new pull-down, so would need to have one sewn and back to me within the week.

The other option is to use an extender as discussed, and locate the adjuster just INSIDE the seat area.

This video shows the driver left side with an extender of 3 1/2 inches in place and the driver's right with the snap directly to the anchor eyelet.



Both ways work, but the left side is easier to tighten and release than the right side due to the tunnel to seat clearance.

Has anyone done what is shown on the driver's left?

Aside from significant support brace and relocating the anchor points, I see no other way of doing this for a pull-up style belt without using an extender.

I really appreciate all of FatBillyBob's input. I'm hoping to find a reasonable compromise for the short term without compromising safety.

Has anyone else replaced their belts and come across this issue?

https://vimeo.com/130644371

 

The extensions worked great, just took a little work to get the bends and angles just right. I went ahead and ordered an adjustable Schroth set too as a final solution. It has a clip in anchor and 2 bar slider as you suggested. Can be converted from pull-up to pull-down to suit preference. The lap and submarine are 2 inch belts, and the chest are 3 inch down to 2 inch HANS friendly. Ready to go for RA.