Are brake pads on the 458 easy to replace?

I do, piece of cake. Don't have to take the calipers off, just knock out the pins, unhook the thickness sensor and take the pads out. Simple

 

Traction control is most likely burning your pads. The dealer advised me if you run even in race mode that's how the cars traction control works by engaging the brakes. To prevent that you have to run with CST all the way off. But even at $4k id take that over a potential loss of control.

 

^^^ exactly this. Be careful to make sure the sensor cable connection is clean and fully back together. I might also suggest that you do a brake bleed, even if you are using racing brake fluid. Bleeds are quick/easy, you just need to borrow a friend for a few minutes. One suggestion would be to have your dealer tech show you how to do both, $150 investment (i.e. less than one labor hour) in confidence and training for when you do it at the track.

CST and ESC (traction and stability control) actually meter the throttle and also use all the brakes when they function; obviously the rear brakes take a brunt of the load. You can hear the engine sound like it's hitting the rev limiter at low revs when its active (plus the dash lights flash). FWIW, until you're at the level where you can comfortably slide the car and spin the rear wheels at speed, keeping the systems on is a wise idea. An additional thought is that I've observed people relying on TC to smash the throttle pedal down like a light switch, instead of learning how to progressively get back to power. If you're engaging TC a lot and you're not driving on wet curbing or patches of oil, it's footwork.

 

FWIW there are a few factory-trained Ferrari techs who are now almost full-time race mechanics in/around Tampa that many of us know. One option might be to have one of them do a 2-3 hour clinic on "maintenance, pre-flight and things to check". Alex Ruiz is local there and is a wonderful guy who loves to share his wisdom. FWIW it would be applicable to a 458C, a 458 road car, or a Cayman....

 

^^This^^

Excellent observation. Again, the idea is not to progressively apply to KEEP the SC from actuating, it's to balance the progression CONSTANTLY AGAINST the beginning of that actuation...

 

+1

I've replaced hundreds of pads over the years; mostly on race cars. Figured, like you, "how hard can it be?"

Being a "conservative" sort, figured I'd do a quick search herein - First post I found said "remove the calipers"..... WTF!? Fortunately, that BS was corrected a few posts later.

A few comments though;

1. After you've pulled the old pads you're gonna need to push the pistons back - Be very aware of fluid level in the master cylinder for obvious reasons.....

2. FWIW, I always file a little chamfer on the leading edge of the pads - May be a waste of time, but I'm convinced it helps to reduce pad squeal.

3. I'll spend a few minutes with some emery cloth "sanding" the disks; Gets rid of any glaze; Did it religiously on the race cars. Maybe another waste of time, but I figure while I'm in there, why not?

Cheers,
Ian

 

ALL good points and well supported. This works well: Amazon.com: Disc Brake Pad Piston Compressor Caliper Wind Back Tool: Home Improvement

 

Nothing about the rotors? I've heard they are quite expensive to replace. Also the suggested replacement interval was every other pad set. But one is supposed to check the thickness against spec.

 

Ceramic rotors are technically measured based on weight

Ferrari rotors (street cars and Challenge cars)are individually serialized and have to be registered in the car ECU, and there is an algorithm that measures wear (and shows in % wear). The algorithm is some combination of variables that provide a directional estimate of rotor wear. The correlation to weight is not that precise.

To even re-set rotor wear, you need a DEIS tool or a VCI.

FWIW, I've gone an entire season (6,000kms) in the race car on a set of rotors, and we through multiple sets of pads, I'd estimate one front set and 0.75 rear sets a weekend (of course, it all depends on how hard you drive, the track, etc). I could imagine a street car where ESC kicks in a lot will go through more rear pads (and rotors)

I believe the "every 2 sets of pads" interval was a bit of folklore, on the street pads/rotors will last a long time....

 

Vince is correct you need to monitor rotor thickness. I'm not sure about the 458 but on most modern cars today the thickness of rotor you have is "what you need." So in theory when the pads chew up the rotor and leave those grooves the rotor is done after the 1st set. In the old days you could turn or true a rotor on a brake lathe sometimes 4 times before you had to get a new set of rotors.

That said you can run on a grooved set of rotors. All you do is bed in your new pads to conform to the old rotors before you threshold brake before that cement wall.

The mistake most newbies make is you should pick an old pad to remove 1st. Then you use a screw driver or pry bar to push that old pad off the rotor. Often you need two screw drivers to push the piston back in a parallel nature back into the piston bore. You want to use some force to make sure the pistonS are flat and fully retracted and not cocked. The you replace the pad. You then do the same thing on the next pad. The reason for doing this way is because you have a multi-piston caliper. You can only use a caliper retraction tool on a single slide rail caliper like on a stock C5 corvette. Once you get to multi-piston you need a bit more strategy.

It is not wrong to remove the caliper. That is what has to happen when you change brake rotors. Changing pads is like brakes 101 and changing rotors is brake 201.

Bleeding brakes should be done on every pad change. You need more maintenance if you flush brakes every other year. You need almost zero if you flush annually. You do need zero if you bleed often like quarterly to doing casual tracking.

You might be able to get better pad wear using I higher heat capacity pad for the track. So you could for example use carbotech XP16 front and xp12 rear on track and swap to street pads afterwards. I find the XP line very kind to rotors.

 

Would not use a screwdriver or prybar on CCM rotors...

 

Thickness on steel rotors, weight on carbon-ceramic.

True, if you score a rotor, you're in trouble and need to replace.

I would not get anything sharp near a ceramic rotor (eg. screwdriver). I'm not sure who makes it, but our team has a tool to hold the pistons that works quite well. You can take the calipers off, but you don't need to for pad changes. Obviously, you do for rotor replacements.

There are several more aggressive pad options for the 458, however generally they will accelerate rotor wear, as with everything performance has a tradeoff.

Most critical element in my experience on the Brembo CCB/CCM's is the bedding process - both pads and (when new) the rotors.

Additional consideration on modern Ferraris, you can do a simple brake bleed relatively quickly, and we'll do several a day. In order to do a full bleed, you need to use the computer to actuate the EBD/ABS pump, sort of a more involved and pain in the ass process.

 

I thought people tracking these cars were using steel because of the cost?

 

I run the carbon on my Scud without issue so far. Pagid makes the OE pads and some aftermarket options for a fraction of the OE cost. I use the expansion tool, my hands, and a thick plastic pry tool if needed. Good point about watching the fluid - easy to forget. I also use a motive pressure system so I can do the bleed job easily solo. They make adapters for different reservoirs.

Might also consider some high-temp brake-specific grease for the pins, and or titanium backing shims/grease for street cars to cut down on squeal.

I will also throw in that you should bleed from the caliper farthest from the reservoir to the closest....in theory. Make sure you bleed the inside and outside of the caliper.

Also interesting point about traction control. It's funny because at BMW driving schools, you will see the mechanics swap out the rear pads 2:1 vs the front for that very reason - MDM is constantly keeping less experienced drivers from spinning by actuating the rear brakes.

I believe user "teachdocs" has a video somewhere that is pretty good for a 16m change. I ASSume the 458 ceramics are a similar process.

 

some are. seems like most 430C's in CCR are converted to steel. have only seen one 458 on steels.

front ceramic rotors are +/- $2800 each, I have not seen an analytic comparison of cost savings steel vs. ceramics based on actual use, only on replacement cost (i.e. steels are cheaper to buy, but are replaced more often...)

 

Our caliper pin punch makes your brake job easier:

These pictures are taken on the bench, you will appreciate its convenience even more when you replace the pads in a caliper attached to the spindle/upright.

This tool will make your switching/replacing the pad easy with more fun than frustration, so you would always use the right compound between track and street to preserve your brake pads for their optimal performance.

Click here to purchase
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You can do an entire set of steel Rotors (Front and rear) and two setts of front pad and two sets of rear pads. Everything you need to install steel brakes and have a spare set of pads. $5200.00 This is less then one carbon ceramic rotor and not much more then a full set of pads for the Carbon Ceramic. They outperform the carbon ceramic brakes and get nearly twice the wear.

 

does the op not have CCB or something? i thought the brakes on a 458 could withstand moderate track use with out changing the pads three times a year?????

 

Were are you finding Carbon Ceramic rotors for $2800. If I can find them for under $8000 a pair I grab them.

 

eurospares.co.uk has them for GBP 2,230 https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/458-italia/suspension-steering/front-suspension-shock-absorber-and-brake-disc-45133

 

I will look into that but I have often found what is listed on their website for pricing is not always accurate when it comes time to order. All my orders for Carbon Ceramics the last few years are for Challenge cars and those are right at 6,000 Euro a pair plus exchange, shipping and duties so that is pretty close to $8k US which is what I typically see. Thanks for the lead though, forgot we started the subject on a street car.

 

Anybody have a source for a set of CCB pads for 2008 Scud? Or aftermarket or slightly used?

Also I tried to purchase those punch pins but after 20 mins of signing in etc I gave up.

 

How do you push the caliper pistons back on a 458 to remove and replace pads. I am worried about using anything that levers against the ceramic rota! To do this......any advice would be helpful please

 

This is what I use. Only touches the calipers.
https://www.************/Caliper-Piston-Spreader-Tool_p_5970.html