How to drive Esses | FerrariChat

How to drive Esses

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by Texas Forever, Jul 20, 2016.

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  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    76,200
    Texas!
    #1 Texas Forever, Jul 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    1. I'm not talking about the uphill Esses at VIR. There, in a momentum car, you take them flat out with maybe a little lift.

    2. I'm talking instead about Larry, Curly and Moe at TWS. See attached for full track map and a map of T10-T11-T12. Keep in mind, T12 dumps you out onto the longest straightaway on the track. In a Miata, if you're cooking with gas, you come out of T12 screaming in 3rd, shift to 4th, cruise down the straight, check out the clouds, wave at the pretty girls, then shift into 5th right before you dive flat out off the embankment into T1-T2.

    My question is are Esses always slow in and fast out? Looking at the pic of T10-T11-T12 doesn't tell you the full picture. What you can't see is T9 is fast, almost flat. Plus, the turn in to T10 is a little off chamber. The idea is to tuck far left in T10, turn right early, late apex T11 and then turn it on for the rest of the ride. As a general rule, it appears slow in is the best idea.

    Is this true for Esses in general? Once when I was doing the Ferrari thing at Mt. Tremblant, see map, Ferrari put an Esses right before we got to T10. (Interesting factoid, Ferrari didn't make us buy insurance or sign damage waivers in 2005.) (Interesting factoid 2, T11 is where Mrs. Walton put a 250 GTO into the wall, but I digress.)

    So, again, when faced with a tight Esses, is "slow in" generally the best choice? In other words, patience Grasshopper?

    Thoughts?

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_Kaow1zFgI[/ame]

    I couldn't find Rob Lay's videos.
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  2. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
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    Jul 10, 2008
    2,149
    On Tremblant, they do make you sign waivers now, and offer a liability coverage for their advanced programs. As for the cone chicane they add, that is purely to reduce risk coming over the hump and reduce entry speed into T10 - which in normal mode is quick and has "implications" that at 120mph might be unfortunate...T11 (Gulch) people get wrong and the wall reaches out and grabs you; T12 (Bridge) is a blast up until you make a mistake on entry. The cone chicane also adds a hard braking zone which is good practice with zero implication, so as a training tool it's good.

    As for "taking esses" - every track has it's own secrets. I've never been to TWS, so will defer to the experienced. At WGI, the uphill esses should literally be flat and fast-in, faster-out. At Sonoma, you adjust on entry and then accelerate hard on the run towards the chicane; done well you can get a run into the passing zone. A lot of the technique also has to do with the car- how much grip, how much speed, downforce....

    A question like this is less about the "right" answer, more about comparing different ideas and then trying them. Ideally, you can compare times and data in similar cars and get an idea where time is gained or lost.
     
  3. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Thanks. I appreciate any feedback. I guess what I'm saying is, in general, if you overcook the entry into a chicane or esses, you're screwed on the entry. Plus, what are the odds of getting passed?

    BTW, when I did the Ferrari school in 2005, it was the first time Ferrari had done this in NA. It was great. Brand new F430s. I even had Ryan Hunter Reay for an instructor.

    And now you mention it, they didn't have the cones for the historic races when the GTO hit the wall. No big deal, they were able to buff it out. :)
     
  4. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
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    Jul 10, 2008
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    Another example is COTA....the fast way there is to haul as much ass in on entry, and as the esses tighten, you slow down and set up for 6-7.
     
  5. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!

    Thanks for the COTA tip. I'll be there in December. Can you recommend any video game or whatever for learning the course?

    I guess chicane are my least favorite thing on a track. A lotta work! I prefer big fast sweepers. :)
     
  6. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
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    Jul 10, 2008
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    I can ask my daughter for ideas re COTA that are games, not sure if COTA is on iRacing.

    If you're really serious about preparing, I'd consider some serious and professional level stuff....GPX Lab | GPX Driver Development Lab | Miami GT Simulator Games will help you learn the track, and can be fun, but if you want to learn how to DRIVE the track short of being there with a coach sitting next to you, this is it

    GPX is not a game, it's real, plus the coaching and feedback will get you dialed in.

    As for chicanes, I love them. It's a combination of braking, maximizing your cornering speed and exit, and rewards good footwork. Once you can nail a chicane or two, everything else is just confidence in the car ha ha
     
  7. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    Apr 3, 2001
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    Randy
    TX - Have only referred TWS's esses referred to as 13-14-15, not 10-12. Odd.

    Before you come to COTA, even the evening before, I can sit down with you, a laptop, and a beer helping you visualize it all, and work the spots out, so you'll get the flow, so you can work on the more specific skills with an instructor in car or coach working with your data. Just drop me a line.

    Important part about T3 @ COTA, not to take it too wide. The attitude of the car requires too much steering input (IMO) and also drives you closer to the wall at T4, which eats cars. Similar to TWS, you are prepping for T6, which is a blind late apex that you must be patient to hit.
     
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Agree on the numbers. I tied it to the only pic I could find of Larry Curly and Moe. :)

    Sure, that would be great about COTA. I have heard it's very technical. I plan on doing the WRL endurance race, and we hope to only make two gas stops, instead of three. We'll see.

    I'll send you a pm.
     
  9. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    Sameer
    IRacing
     
  10. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
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    Pittsburgh, PA
    COTA is in iracing. With solid hardware iracing is an excellent sim. With low end hardware it is much closer to a game.

    For me it is more about being disciplined and gradually looking for speed in a corner or series of corners rather than just looking to apply a specific technique to the same kind of sections you might see on various tracks.

    Data to compare with is always awesome. You might be surprised to see dramatically different ways of achieving the same result. I tend to carry tons of speed into corners, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'll be faster than someone who is slower on the way in. Their mid corner or exit speed might be higher. Also consider that one technique might be better for a race than a qualy lap.
     
  11. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Thanks. I don't like em, but it's kinda hard for someone to pass you in one. :)
     
  12. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
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    Pittsburgh, PA
    Hahaha. There is a new flow section at Pitt race. Not quite esses, but impossible to pass. People still try. Fun to watch as a spectator ; )
     

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