Skip Barber School Looking wobbly

Thanks for the heads-up.

I did the 3 day intro, and 2 day advanced formula car course several years ago, and they were great.

I hope that this is only a hiccup. I would think that if they made it through the recession, the can make it through today. At least I hope so.

But they are available at fewer places. They haven't been at Mid-Ohio for a few years.

Time will tell...

Matt

 

Racing is dying as the demo gets older. Newbies get on track in rice rockets for $150 no instruction needed. Instructor competition is rising, but not quality instruction. Skip is as good as it gets but also tops in per day rate. The problem with racing/tracking is you don't know what you don't know so it is difficult to have perceived value. Then there is the whole area of instructing vs. coaching and its per day price differences.

 

Back in 95 I did 3 days of Bridgestone racing school at Shannonville motor park in Ontario. I think they now run it at Mosport. Shannonville is a dead flat track. First 1.5 days where in a Camaro, next 1.5 in a Formula 2000. I think the cost was $2000 with a max of $500 in damage liability.

Great school. Worth every cent. The first 1.5 days in the Camaro was great coz the instructor could ride along and you with him. The owner jumped in my car. He loved my lines but said you can push harder. He jumps in and shows me. The very next lap with me driving was probably 50% quicker as I had a baseline of how hard a could push the car.

Great experience and one I'd like to do again. I have an old dat5 tape of it. I need to get it converted.

 

yep, I think that's exactly it. Skippy et al filled a gap in the market-how to get into racing, get experience/license etc.

NASA and now SCCA have basically taken those functions in house with their own HPDE programs.

the last time I checked out the Skippy formula cars they all looked really ragged. the road cars are in good shape but I assume they're on some loan/lease program from the various manufacturers, who don't want crappy cars in the hands of students.

 

The danger is if they are skimping on car maintenance. I spoke with FChat member Singletrack when we were at Lucas Oil Racing and he told me his Skippy cars brakes would occasionally goto the floor while at Road Atlanta. He told an instructor who then took the car out to check it out. That instructor went into the wall at turn 1, broke his back and was in the hospital for months (see thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/tracking-driver-education/505932-fellow-racer-injured-road-atlanta.html).

The cause was brake pad would shift out of place after going over a big bump due to poor maintenance of parts. Scary. After that story I would not step into a Skippy car.

FWIW the Lucas Oil Racing series cars (competitor racing school to Skippy) are brand new this year, modern and a good alternative.

 

I have been getting a lot of Skippy ads screaming 50% OFF. Too bad.

For me, I'm gonna try endurance racing. Sprint racing is too little seat time for too much money. In a weekend of racing, including time trials, you get maybe 2 hours of seat time? That's one shift in one day of racing in a two-day enduro. Plus, endurance is a team sport and requires strategy to win.

A lot of you bash Chump and Lemons; but from what I've been told, the key is play it cool for the first couple of hours while the "lesser experienced" teams drop by the wayside. I'll find out in November. And then WRL in December.

But, the cool thing is my team has a really cool e36 race car for maybe $4k. We did a test and tune last week at TWS, and I love the car. The car handles great and has a large cabin. This is the first race car that I have ever felt comfortable in. (In the Skippy MX-5 cars, I still banged the top of my helmet on the roll bar.) I'll post pics in the Texas section later.

Cheep race car (with full cage, 6-point belt, Hans), great team mates, and lots and lots of seat time. Maybe club racing needs to take a longer look at enduros.

 

I don't know how fast you go in chump/lemons but speed kills...either yours or the guy hitting you in a heavy car. Maintenance is everything. Learn the E36 well so you can point out faults and know that your mechanic has repaired the car right. The only bad thing I can see about crapcan racing is a potential for not spending money on the car. I'm so paranoid my rebuilt vette motor is the only thing that I have had to farm out. So, I had the motor run on an engine dyno. Then it will be run on the chassis dyno and then I will test it a Autoclub speedway before the Runoffs at Mid-O. Thankfully Mid-O has minimal walls to hit. People blow new motors and oil themselves spinning into barriers all the time. I hate new motors.

 

Apparently, one saving grace of crapcan is nobody can go really fast. You can only do so much in a Toyota Corolla.

WRL is another story, but they apparently run a tighter ship.

Fortunately, the PO is like me. He overspends on his cars. His team brought Hello Dead Kitty (see below) for $500 at an insurance auction. He proceeded to put a LOT of safety equipment in it. We brought the car for $3K and got a helluva a deal.

The other cool thing is being part of a team. I'm not sure what my highest and best use is (although I'm pretty good at finding things), but you don't want to see me with a wrench in my hand. Fortunately, my team members are really good at wrenching, so life is good.
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Here's more from our first test and tune. Major finding is Kitty runs really flat. Whipping her back and forth in chicanes is a dream. Under pressure, the front pushes a little bit. It is really hard to break the rear loose, although maybe with a little more speed.

Maybe it is the accountant in me, but I love racing cheep, but safe, cars.
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A sign of the times.Check out your local circle track. Mostly car counts are down. Fewer spectators. A very expensive hobby.However local drag racing seems to be doing well. Run what you show up with and they will find a class for you. From minivans,PU trucks to snow sleds. GTS Bruce

 

I'm seeing if it can be less expensive. Five of us rented TWS for about 6 hours. Per driver cost? $175.

Generally, a crapcan weekend costs about $1,000 per driver. That is for 4 to 6 hours of seat time.

Several years ago, I asked a guy about Ferrari Challenge racing. He said it takes $500k just to get started. No thanks.

 

Also doing your own work? You know where you will be spending all your spare time nights and weekends....

 

I think the new flavor is driving schools set up by manufacturers, like the Porsche school at Barber Motorsports Park.

 

Private memberships are killing it too. The people with the money get top quality instructors

 

That's the cool thing about being on a team. No wrenching for me.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but given I go thru about 3 sets of tires in a 4 day race event (1 set for test day on day 1 and practice day on day 2, 1 set for qualifying and first race, 1 for second race and enduro). You could get away with 2 sets if you werent trying to win and were willing to give up a second or 2 per lap. But at $2500/set for slicks that is still $5000 in tires if you only use 2 sets. Throw in other consumables like pads, pre-race nut and bolt and other misc, travel expenses, transporting the car, gas, entry fees, you are looking at $10,000/weekend. If you are going to spend $10K a weekend you are looking at $100,000 in variable expenses per year (for 10 events). So then it seems whether you spend $5k, $50K or $100K o a car, your biggest expense is still everything but the car itself... so you might as well get a nice car.

Now maybe with a chump car tires are more like $1600 and you keep them for 20 heat cycles, trailer the car yourself, do all the work and can get away with:

$1000 in tires, $300 in fuel, $500 entry fees, $500 in hotels, $500 in transporting the car yourself, $500 in other variables like brake pads, fluid changes= $3500 weekend. Even still $3500 x 10 weekends= $35,000. Might as well get a $50K car that you can sell when your done than a $5K car that you spend $35,000/year running. I think even in spec miata a decent car is ~$20K+

Now if you dont have the $50K for a car I understand as there is no other choice. But if that is not the case, what am I missing about the chump car route?

 

Your tire budget on chump cars and lemons is way off. You're not using top end tires, you're getting used tires at the junkyard for 50$

 

1. The rules are set to keep the costs down

24 Hours of LeMons - Car Prep

2. Generally, the cost of the car, when said and done, should be no more than $10K. If you spend more, they will hit you with penalties. That said, a Miata or BMW automatically goes to Group 1. Frankly, I had just about given up when I found Kitty. I don't like FWD, and I don't fit in Miatas very well. But the e36 is perfect.

I also decided against a Porsche early on. The running costs are much higher than a BMW.

Oh, and it might surprise you how easy it is to sell a car. A race car for $5k is a lot easier to sell than one for $50k.

3. Depending on whether you are FWD or RWD, you will go through 2 sets of drive tires for 15 or so hours of racing. The non-drive tires will last all weekend. Other consumables are not bad. At TWS, one of the fastest tracks around, a hot car may do an honest 110-120 at the end of the straight. Plus, these are momentum cars, which means you don't burn through stuff like you would with a M3 or similar car.

4. Keep in mind, you're on a team so you're splitting the cost 4 to 6 ways, depending on the number of cars. One my team members has an RV, so that takes care of motel costs. Plus, the furthest we go is maybe 250 miles or so. We generally do about 3-4 events a year.

5. BTW, you don't even need a car. If you check the message boards, there's almost always seats for rent for roughly $1,000.

6. There are basically two groups of racers. The ones out for ****s and giggles. (Some guys only run for maybe a hour because all they want to do is set the fastest lap time.) Then there are those who want to win, which is harder to do than it might seem. If you can run error free and only have two pit stops, instead of three, for 7.5 hours, you stand a chance of winning. Moreover, you'll need spotters to keep track of who is where. Just like a real race team.

7. If you like passing cars, you're in luck.

Come on in, the water's fine.

I wish. However, the rules are deliberately designed to keep costs down.

 

The cost of the racecar is always the cheapest part of racing.

 

The truth!!!

That is what is stopping me. I hate trucks, I don't want a truck but would need a truck and trailer. Then I need to keep it somewhere. Business parking lot - sure, until it snows.

A bought a Formula 2000 and sold before I ever get it out. I really want to find a way back...

 

Karting is another good alternative, though not as popular in the US as it is in Europe. Costs are similar to a Chump car I think. With the new LO206 motors, costs are dropping even more. I just got back into it for $9k. That included a 1yr old kart/IAME MY09 motor, stand, new 5x8 enclosed trailer, safety gear, and enough spares to run for a year.

 

Karting is awesome but not sure my 46 year old, over weight body could handle it

 

My 45 yr old body can so I think you'd be surprised. lol