Thinking of entering the sports racer world

Based on your requirements the best option would be any variant of an FIA CN car.

MFGS:

1.) Norma
2.) Ligier
3.) Wolf
4.) Tatuus

Chassis types:

All 2 seaters, earlier (and cheaper but still quite nice) cars are steel tube frame with aluminum skins riveted on. Later models are full carbon tubs.

Engine:

All have a 2 liter Honda K20 series motor. (Accura RSX). 255-260 Hp at crank. Very little changes to stock motor. Dry sump, headers and ECU are the changes. Very very reliable engines. I was told by Swindon Engines in UK (Engine builder) that for normal use and track day running you could go "forever" with an engine rebuild. For proper racing they said 100-200 hrs at that power level.

Gearbox:

Sadev 6 speed sequential box. Some cars come with paddle shift, some come with a "lever arm" shifter. Box is bulletproof.

Aero:

Better aero than any Radical. Huge rear wing, nice front splitters, proper diffuser. Real race car stuff.

Suspension:

Proper race car (LMP) style bits. Radical uses rubber bushings everywhere-cheaper but much more flex.

Tires:

Typically Avons are used and as series in Europe does a lot of longer races the tires have good wear characteristics. A set of tires is about $1000. Same price as most Formula car/race car tires from Goodyear or Hoosier.

Cost of car:

Used older cars are 50K to 65K
Newer cars (usually carbon tub cars) are 75-85K
Don't waste money on new car unless you have to have "new".

Track support:

Not much really needed. Once you have a decent set up on the car you really do not need to play with it, track to track. You can play with aero changes if you want but really I wouldn't do that up front-find a sweet spot and stick with it. Major thing you may change would be ARB's-if car has big OS/US from one track to next. But again-probably not needed and very simple 5 minute operation to do, if you want. Main things to pay attention to are tire pressures, cold and hot, proper engine warm up. Oil level, etc. I do not nut and bolt my car after every session but do do a quick wrenching on suspension bits after everyday but this takes me 15-20 minutes to do. I go to the track alone, no support, so change tires, fuel it, maintain it, etc myself. And I have never been run ragged over the day dealing with it.

CN cars are hugely popular in Europe, and starting to catch on in USA. Currently the SCCA is running it's national championships at Mid Ohio and the P1 (Top of the league) sports racing class will be won by a Norma this year-unless he breaks.

Any of the cars would make a great track day car. Norma's are biggest mfg and most sucessfull but all are good. The Tatuus is super cool looking and full of high tech parts.

Running costs:

Really any car you mentioned (Caterham, Radical, Wolf, CN cars) will have very similar operating costs overall. Most costs are completely independent of car used. Travel costs (fuel, food, etc) will be same, hotel costs will be same, entry costs will be same, so down to fuel and tire costs, plus repair and maintainance costs.

Fuel costs for car will depend more on track miles done than anything else. You will be using race fuel for all-probably same type for all, so car type doesn't matter. Plus, in big picture, race fuel costs are a small % of overall costs.

Tires are a different matter. Really depends on how much you need new, stick tires everytime you go out. Other than that-all the cars are going to be close on tore wear and costs. But tires can become the biggest cost factor out there. If you want a new set every day figure $2000 a weekend on that. If you are okay with tires going 3,4 or 5 weekends-which is possible-they just get slower-then costs can drop big time.

I run SCCA with a FC car and a Norma CN car. I run a "tight" ship but budget for new tires after 2 weekends racing. Sometimes 3 weekends. My budget per race weekend is around $1500.00-$1700.00-which is pretty tight but not skimping. I assume a 400-500 mile round trip road tow from home to track as average, I tow race car in enclosed trailer with pick up-get 10mpg while towing so use 40-50 gallons of fuel. So assume $100 bucks there. I stay in a hotel and budget $250 for that (3 nights), $500 for entry fee, $250 for Friday test fee, (I usually take advantage of the Friday open practice at most SCCA races), I assume $40 for food per day.

So this adds up to about $1200, add in $300-$500 prorate per weekend for new tires. That gets me at my above budget.

Not I have not added/allowed for crash damage, engine rebuilds, car mods, etc. I do not put those under operating budget-but they are still there. I have been lucky with FC car-have not spent a lot on car upkeep/repair. But I had a bad wreck in my Norma and that set me back $25K!

Any of the cars you mentioned would work fine, and I do not see any compelling advantage to going with one over another, based on running costs. All will require same level of attention, off track and on track. Spares costs will be similar for all-with a nod towards the Radical maybe being a bit less in some areas. In the end I would think the choice will come down to price and what looks coolest/you like best.

But do remember these things are real race cars-not a modified street car, like your Vette. Difference is they behave so much better, feedback is so much better, they are "faster" where it counts-cornering and braking-(anybody can go fast in a straight line) but they do require more babysitting and mechanical work than a street car. More things to play with to make car fast (or slow if you get it wrong), just more user intensive overall. But hardly needing a mechanic to go with you to track. 90% of my fellow racers are doing it solo.

But in the end you will be one happy camper-You will love it, make you wonder why you even bothered with a street car/race car - as these things are just so much better race cars. Good luck and if you need more info PM me.

 

After being in a few accidents, I like the extra safety of enclosed cars. If you are only doing DE, the accident risk may be a lot lower but something to consider. As example over the weekend I hit the wall in a GT car at 75 mph and didnt even have a bruise, my crew chief did the same thing (the same day) in a spec racer and was knocked out for 2 minutes and went off to the hospital (he's ok).

 

Another option to look at would be the Elan NP01 sports racer. Single seater, but fully enclosed car -LMP style-Elan is doing a higher Hp version with more aero, etc now. (230 ish hp vs 185-Tunnels, splitter vs flat floor, also will fit real racing tires vs DOT race/street tires on car now.)

The NP01 goes for around 70K and the new car should be around $90-$100k.

Downside: Not 2 seater. Upside: Very safe car, very, very low running costs.

 

Had a chance to drive a radical 2 yrs ago at a track day. Decades ago drove some single seaters. Radical made me smile from ear to ear. There is nothing for shear fun and enjoyment like an open cockpit car. No comparison to a viper,corvette whatever closed top. With 2 seats you can take someone along for a ride so both can enjoy the drive. If you're really concerned about taking a head shot you can always put more of a formal cage. Sure adds weight,not as pretty,more drag. Either way its a lot more fun than being enclosed.
GTS Bruce

 

I can speak about the SP/300.R, which is in fact really a Lola designed prototype. I have run one for two track day seasons and the car has been very reliable and fast, although I do have a race mechanic providing trackside support (I like to make adjustments between sessions at the track) and full racecar prep before each event. In terms of performance, we are under the SR3 RSX lap records at Mosport, which is satisfactory given the original mission of the car. I did look at and test drive Radicals as well, but since I'm not racing in the spec series, I went for the added safety of an aluminium monocoque. Very cool car in that it is a genuine prototype, not too unlike what a privateer team would have bought from Lola to run LMP2 several years ago.

Tons of experience with the car, happy to share, just PM me.

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Lola-Caterham SP/300.R
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That car must have the smallest steering wheel ever!

 

The wheel is a pretty sweet one, actually, by Farringdon instruments: FISW Steering Wheel

Shift lights along the top, etc. Mine is upgraded to alcantara, which I like because it is easier to grip with racing gloves on.
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I have raced both a Norma and more recently a Radical over the past 2 seasons so I can give you my feedback from some pretty extensive experience. I would say that most of the info and sums put forward by lmpdesigner are bang on. There is no doubt that the Norma type cars have more sophisticated aero and suspensions than the Radical and that in the end they are a more purpose built racing car. That is the upside. The downside is that they come from Europe and are not widely supported in the US. As such getting parts is generally a time and money consuming exercise because you have to buy new and from overseas. In addition with increased sophistication comes a more fragile race car with shorter service intervals on many of the parts.

Conversely the Radical is a less sophisticated car that has performance capabilities that go well beyond the spec sheet. The Radical is quite tough and durable and is well supported by a US dealer network that stocks most of the parts you will ever need. The motorcycle engine should not be a turn off either. The engines are very robust and especially with paddle shift are almost indestructible. Buy one with a 1340cc K8 engine rather than the earlier 1300 K7 engine as the gearbox is much beefier on the K8. Also the 1500 engine is more powerful but is much too much more money to justify the tiny increase of performance. I use straight from the bike low mileage engines and keep them for about 100-120 hours. A complete engine is $4K and when I am done with it the core is still worth $2K. This means $2K for 100+ hours of engine time is dirt cheap and the motors have been very reliable in our championship.

In addition the Radical is a very known quantity so depreciation is surprisingly low and they are not a difficult race car to sell. It is really easy to get carried away with the extra performance of a Norma but it comes at a cost. The Radical is plenty fast and that last second is brutal to get out of it. At Mosport with the 1340cc we have gotten into the 1:19's which is smoking fast for 200hp and this rivals the times of a Porsche Cup car.
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Rob, thank you for the input. Very helpful. Looking seriously at a new SR3 RSX with the 1,340 engine. Track (not race) use for at least a year or so.

 

My compliments if you can get a new RSX. Unfortunately that is out of my budget and there is no doubt that the newer bodywork on the RSX is aerodynamically better and thus faster than the previous RS cars. I race against a growing number of RSX's and I have to really push harder than I should to keep up and beat them. The newer car is just plain faster even though mechanically they are the same.

As for the engines the 1500 appears to be a dying breed and most people are going 1340 now. Again the extra speed from the larger engine is in no way in proportion to how much extra you need to pay. 1340 is the way to go and well driven it can beat a 1500 any day.

 

Have no argument with what Rob (Nuvolari) is saying. A Radical is a perfectly good track day and race car. Reliable, pretty darn fast, etc. Radical had to do something right with them as they are the most prolific race car ever made.

But for me--wanting to run SCCA-the Norma is a better bet. Of course--A Stohr or modified FA car is probably even a better bet but I like the looks of the Norma and wanted a two seater.

Plus I am designing my own no holds barred P1/P2 racer that -on my sims-would have been 3-4 seconds a lap faster than the Norma that just won the runoffs. Only problem is car will cost $200k-$300k to make! (Tooling for tub and body tres expensive!)

But a really "to the absolute limits of the rules" design. Will make Porsche and Audi LMP1 cars look "dated". (LoL!!)

 

Yes, I feel fortunate in that regard. I am planning a trip to VIR to test a new RSX with Danyel at Wisko soon. The 1340 engine makes a lot of sense on multiple levels.

Appreciate your input!

Brian, I want to thank you for your valuable input by PM, too. I am nowhere near your level of talent or full-blown racing fever yet! Please share your mad scientist super P1/P2 project with us, as much as you can without giving away propietary info!

 

Was that you that did the 1:19.9 at mosport in July? If so that was an impressive lap for a 1340cc. Although, watching the 1500cc lap record, one would expect the gap to be larger at a different track. Mosport is so momentum and aero dependent. Not much opportunity for the 1500cc to shine there.

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I ordered a new Radical SR3 RSX today. A big thank you to Danyel Torres Delgado at Wisko / VIR. I'll post details and pics when I get it. Build time about 6-8 weeks. So excited to finally try my hand at a purpose-built, "wings and things" track car.

 

Danyel is terrific! Congrats!

 

Yes, he is. A true gentleman. Thank you, Peter!

 

Lots of good advice and comments already, especially from Brian. My only contribution is to suggest that the path you are on will most likely lead you to go racing. All the vehicles you are considering are so much faster than what you will encounter at a HPDE that your driving skills will not develop much because you will not have clean laps due to traffic. It'll be cool to be the "top dog" at HPDE's for a while, but at some point racing will draw you in to really challenge both car and driver.

So this leads to my question: are you more interested in having a fast, cool car, or having a car that will allow you to develop you driving skills in a safe and affordable manner? There is no right or wrong answer, just what is right for you, and it is possible to pursue both. Sports racers are phenomenal, no "door slammer" of any kind can compare, hope you join the community!

 

Competed in my first race today: Spec Miata at Atlanta Motorsports Park. Tons of fun. Somehow managed to place 3rd in a small field of seven. Two of us were rookies (gotta love the giant X on the rear end!). I'm hooked. Will probably compete in larger Spec Miata venues after more practice while I get familiar with the Radical Sr3 RSX. Maybe some seat time in a TAG kart, too.
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Great stuff!

 

I love sport racers. I'm too chicken for open wheel, but I like the competition, the average number of years of experience of the first three rows of my last race was more than ten years of racing, EACH!

The Radical is fun and I love the SP.300/R, but I need a car I can race all over the country in a variety of different venues and is very tightly controlled in engine specification so that the driver is the limiting factor, not the car. I wanted a two-seater (not a converted single or central seater) because that, to me and to the FIA, is the classic definition of a sports racing car.

So, I spent the last few years of my prep shop business focusing on buying, selling, supporting and campaigning a series of cars founded in the UK around 1977 by Brands Hatch track owner and promoter, John Webb.

Cars built by all the great dedicated race car manufacturers. Lola, Chevron, Tiga, Royale, March, Swift, et cetera. This is what a typical field looks like. Last month at VIR.
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Way to go man!!

 

Photo gets my heart pumping alone ; )

That is super cool.