Porsche vs. Ferrari tracking

Actually, as you know, the Pee People don't let other brands run with them. But, most Ferrari guys I have met are 100% car guys. They enjoy all cars.

 

Not true re pca track which is open to any type car
I have lots experience with both fca and pca track days and problem with pca is too many rules amd regulations, fca more laid back. Problem with fca is they dont make the guy in an enzo, etc that drives hiway speed give pointby which can get frustrating

 

Not true. Some regions of PCA do NOT allow cars other than P-cars or other than PCA members run at their events. You need to get out more. Southeast is more laid back, for both clubs!

 

+1


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To some of us, anyplace outside of Texas is furrin.


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We Had vetts, bmw's, lotus, viper, Audi, even a mini once run with us pca in Colorado. Hell a guy with his Nsx and a noble(awesome car) ran with the p cars as well, none of us gave a rats ass.

 

At most euro track events, it is usual to see most f cars in the car park and most p cars on the track... Why? Pure economics.

 

Frankly, after participating in a few Ferrari days at TWS, many Ferrari owners are better off parking their cars. I recall seeing one guy in a F360 repeatedly spinning while exiting the carousel. Some people are incapable of learning.

 

There is no doubt your original premise is correct. Far more Porsche guys take their cars to the track than Ferrari owners. Hell, a large number of Ferrari owners don't drive their cars at all!

 

There are far more porche than ferrari, so we would expect to see more porche at the track. However there are more ferrari sold in the USA each year than lotus has managed in 10 years. At track event you will see nearly as many Loti and vettes or Porche and youre lucky to see one ferrari if at all..

So maybe we can deduce certain cars attract more "serious" drivers than others.

I also well remember the 90s when at FCA events you had to bring a ferrari to run on track. Now other marques are accepted because even though the ferrari population has relatively exploded, now even less owners track their cars.

The reasons I have heard for this, prohibitively expensive to run on track, and everybody guns for the ferrari to say they beat it.

Of the few ferraris I have seen running at non FCA DE evets, none were really well driven or running really hard. Well one(new 488) was being drifted by a pro driver, he said it was an awesome car on track, it was also a press car. There are a fair number of ferrari run in ferrari challenge.

I would say challnege cars aside, if you own a ferrari and do serious tracking its probably in some other more suitable and disposable car like a porche, lotus vette or miata.

Fearraris on track, not the most durable, not the lightest, not necessarly the fastest(ok driver is the big factor at this level) they will really depreciate(and so many are you know "investents" for flippers), and the cost in consumables to run will make even your average millionaires eyes water. Billionaires run vintage ferraris.

 

...And don't forget NOISE!

At Oulton my 360 with standard exhaust was fine but anything more than that and there is no way you'd get on.

With my GT3 I just press the "valves closed" button and it sounds like a big vacuum cleaner = happy Oulton Park staff ;-)

 

I track both. Is it MUCH, MUCH more expensive to run the average Ferrari than the average Porsche. I can run a Porsche and crew for myself as it virtually never fails and what does I can fix myself, taking a Ferrari to the track requires a mechanic. (At least at higher skill levels where the car is pushed near its limits versus a beginner DE level)

Then factor in depreciation. As it was mentioned earlier a Ferrari is rarely driven on the street much less on track. The penalty for mileage is excessive on any Ferrari. I just tried to market my 575 with 47K miles on it, ask me how I know.

 

Some of you guys sure can take all the fun out of a good cartoon!



Matt

 

Ferrari's cost too much to track...

Assuming you are looking for the "experience" of being on a race track, the Porsche wins.

You can track a $30,000 Porsche (Boxster/Cayman/911/etc) and in most scenarios go faster that the Ferrari and have more fun...

General rule of thumb, you should be ready willing and able to financially absorb damages to your car...

Damaging my Porsche, I can handle the damages. Can get body parts, or even a whole body replacement as needed. If I crashed it, I would not be happy, and it would really irritate me. But, I would get over it.

Now, if you crash a $150-200k Ferrari, that's a bit different. I would get seriously upset, irritated, despondent, and depressed. Parts are impossible to find, repairs are ungodly expensive, and even a scratch kills resale value... Whats the point of risking it?

Now, if I had 10mm$ in the bank, I would feel differently.

For mere mortals, Ferraris are nice to own and look at. Risk on the track? Not so much...

 

Very cute cartoon!

 

I don't know, not my experience... (Own a Ferrari, track a 930). Granted, I own a testarossa, which isn't a great track car (I tried). But I do agree, most Ferrari guys "aren't" track guys. Its more about owning their dream car... Ferris Beuhler comes to mind.

My neighbor races Ferrari's with Glikenhaus, so it can be done

I can beat on my 930 and its not that expensive... Brake pads, $150 front or back
RE11's, $150,
brake service is cost of DOT4 fluid
Rock chips? Oh, well
Struts need replacement, $130 a piece.
Need brake hose? $30
Get a rock chip in the windshield? $300.
Want to add a rollbar? $500
Want to add a front oil cooler?$700 gets you a full kit
Want brake rotors? $125 a pop
Ding the front window? $250 for a used one.

Ferrari costs, even if you track a 308, would the multiples of that... If not 5-10x more (eg. Windshield)

Not to mention, a Porsche is more "track ready" out of the box...

bo

 

As a percentage of the total new production population, Porche makes how many 991's and cayman/boxters in a year vs ferrari? I bet we still see less ferraris on track as a percentage of yearly production. Its not justb wheter someoen can afford it many can and choose not to. If you can afford a Gt3Rs and to run one on track you can afford to run a ferrari on track.

A big part of that is who ferrari now almost exclusively caters to, the drive to the resteraunt crowd who cant really drive anyway. Fearrrai has progressively abandoned people who just like to drive, and the product (depsite its paper numbers) reflects this.
Ferrari knows its market, really fast too loud cars, with sniffy leater that are so easy to drive you dont have to be able to drive, so really rich people can buy them as a token/handbag/wealth satatement runabout. But as fun to drive machines, imo the lack.

Yes they made the speciale etc, but that was so limited in production that it was an instant collector car.

now if ferrari made a car for drivers, like say 3k speciiale per year for 300k, or a 4c with a TT6 for under 200k, somehting robust where you could get wheels tires and pads reasosnably we migth see people who track buying ferraris to track.

But the Ferrari owner today is mostly impressed with the design, the noise and what they read the car "can do" not necesarily doing it. Going one step further it was a huge dissapointment driving a 458, the experience on street was pretty bland, and while its probably great fun at 9/10ths and above you cant do that on street, and for various reasons its impractical in a ferrari on track.

Imo ferrari has lost the plot, yes they are profitable now, yes the cars elicit desire, but serious drivers have moved on, whereas before ferrari was the pinacle and car of choice if you could afford it, both for street and trackdays. Today frankly when you strip out the brand BS there are argualbly better choices as drivers cars and for track.

But yeah they still got design, great motors and cachet, maybe that can sustain them. But when the "crowd" moves on or they need more sales Ferrrari is going to be missing its core customers.

If fast cars today are all about the experince, then I think a big part of that experience is becoming more and more tracktime, and ferrari is for whatever reasons mostly absent.

 

I dont think its just the money or even value of the cars. Yes, old track porsche like 944 or even cayman can be cheap but new gt3 or rs is as expensive as ferrari and I see lots of those on track compared to ferraris. I think its the beautiful style and sound of ferraris attract different buyer than porsche which is more about the engineering and track prowess.