Homestead T1 tips?

You're right. Take T1 using line that allows you to carry as much speed as possible knowing you will scrub off speed as you turn left for the kink (no lift if your car has grip). Then brake as late and firm as possible staying wide right before turning left to apex T2. I can easily gain or lose nearly 1 second/lap just from T1 done right or wrong/with traffic. Come back next year and do it again, then go fishing in the Keys!

P.S. You could have ask me at the track ;-)

 

Don't know how fast your car is, the brakes, entry speed, or grip.

In a formula car, you stay flat all the way through the big bump on the inside, wait for the car to straighten, then you are on the brakes for T2. There is a change in the pavement which is a good reference for braking point; also some visual cues to the left; the right is all grass. If you are off throttle in that bump, in a formula car, there is a good chance you will get launched and spin the car. You can be off the curb some as you mention as well, but too far right, and too much speed, and you will end up in the grass to the right because it will take too long to get things straight and scrub enough speed for T2.

That's my experience anyway. Have fun.

 

^^This^^

 

Simplest way to think about it, as you described, T1 is a kink and the distance from turn in to brake point for T2 is quite long. Car is already scrubbing off speed from turn in, so anything you can do to minimize further loss of speed is a huge gain because you are traveling at very high speeds.

Are you able to keep your foot on the gas thru bumps into T1? My first time there, I told my crew chief that I was flat, but data showed I wasn't. Turned out that my foot was bouncing off the gas pedal due to the bumps, so he put in a heel stop to help me keep my foot planted.

BTW I'm at Sebring too this weekend, but don't ask me about T17 and T1 as I need help as much as anyone there!

P.S. Thanks, ProCoach, for comfirming!

 

If you've got time, some interesting discussion of Turn 17 at Sebring in this thread: Sebring Turn 17 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

 

Here's two different ways through 17 for what it's worth. Low grip formula fords, so take that into account...

Me:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI6fx8141po[/ame]

Jonatan Jorge:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkziu-ZWQtI&t=6s[/ame]

 

singletrack, thanks for posting. Just looked at T17 entry from initiation of braking to just before the bridge.

I think you're not only overbraking (braking too hard, so you slow down SHORT of where you want to be) but you also pinch the entry, coming too close to the inside wall near the leading edge of the bridge. There's a period where you are done braking, but you are not yet at (or pointed towards) a place where you can progress to WOT. Right side tires should not go over the verge line paint, but instead be a few car widths off, IMO. Man, those tires are slippy!

JJ has more patience, three ways. He waits longer before he leaves the left edge of the road on the back straight, 2) he brakes less hard, stretching out the deceleration period but arriving at the end of it at a higher rate of speed and 3) he has good patience and slower hands turning from a point to the left of where you are and deeper into the corner.

Fun to watch! And, of course, easy to offer armchair critique!

 

What car ?

Using banking or not ? This only changes amount of braking.

T1 is pretty fast, w no banking I lift before apex 1/2 sec then back into it and hard braking between 1&2 very late.

W banking you have to use more brake cus in DP I'm around 40mph faster.
There's a box like structure on Right chain link fence wall where I hit the brakes, but it's more a tap & go, no hard braking before T1 to really go fast.

There's a LARGE dip right at apex cus track is sinking there, I've gotten airborne in DP coming off that LOL. Better to b a little Right of the apex.

Turn 2 can be fast too but you have to be right on the apex to avoid going off at exit.
Last race track was slippery as ice & I we t off there & did a 720 spin in field LOL.

T3 is super tight, super late apex & it's always slippery between T3&4

T5 is slow in fast out, exit is VERY fast

T6 slow & slippery at exit

If you do infield be VERY CAREFUL at T7. I've seen dozens of cars spin into wall on left.

The banking just fantastic. It's much tighter than Daytona so you pull more G. End of back straight look for stripe across track & use that to start braking & eventually push braking forwards.

I don't brake there at all just a lift once corner starts & back to 100% before half way. Plenty of room at exit unless you got a bunch of miatas & hondas clogging it up

When you going?

 

You're welcome and no worries - can't take the critique; don't post anything right? ; )

Thanks re: being fun to watch! ...and you should have seen some of the races! There were multiple 2-3 car wide situations and 4 cars nose-to-tail through 17 and 1 and people worked it out for the most part.

I definitely agree on the line (pinching it and your comment on car position for exit). I would say the more-outside line (and later turn in as you point out) he takes is much more consistent and ultimately faster if done properly. I'm right on the verge of being launched by that bump on the inside under the bridge - which I did at times. It's manageable, but not optimum. Patience, slow hands, and not overdriving are all things at the top of my list which I work on each time I'm in the car/sim. The tires are crazy slippery as you point out, which really punish those characteristics.

Buuuut if you look at the entry speed, mine is higher and I carry it longer - we are roughly the same speed if you pause it under the bridge, and both WOT at that point. His min speed is 63mph, but he is back to throttle sooner(far from bridge), mine is 65 but I'm back to throttle later(close to bridge). Under the bridge, we are both roughly 70mph. So not sure if I agree with the overbraking, but I confess that I didn't compare my data to JJ's at Sebring ; )

There is no delay from brakes to gas just so you know - no coast period - I wish they had the brake sensor hooked up in the video. But I agree, if I were wider when I switch from brake to gas, I would have been able to go back to WOT more aggressively than I did - as JJ did on his line. All of this is kind of why I thought it was a good comparison. Similar lap times, but two different ways to skin the cat : )

 

Then the next thing is to take sector times, from the first worker station where you brush the wall to under the pedestrian bridge at pit in coming onto the straight.

I also think the wider entry helps because you turn the most deep, then open slightly just before, you hit the bumps. This way, there is less lateral loading when the wheels come off the ground!

In Turn 1, I ask people to turn at the first "new" lateral concrete strip AFTER the end of the pit lane wall (covers a new drain put in a few years ago, there are several) which allows opening of the wheel as you approach the inside wall and hit that bump close to the cone (the one on top of the fence) and lessening the lateral loading to prevent "moments."

Thanks for posting. I would want to compare length and calculate the average gSum between you and JJ, do a bunch of slice and dice with radii and control inputs before I said what was better (or not so much) about each approach!

 

For sure! I know JJ's (and yours) approach is the better one though as it's more consistent and emphasizes exit speed and what you mention right here...

No doubt! I'll also point out that the video supports this statement without even going into the data. If you notice, I scrub speed even at WOT under the bridge because of the line and the lateral loading you mention. It is steady at 70mph, dips to 69 for a split second, then back to 70. Where JJ's is a nice constant acceleration curve. I think that proves your point.

I would also add that I drove a "looser" car later in the event and the same line had me in absolutely massive slides. Plus as the track degrades, as is usually the case at Sebring as the day wears on, the tighter line also degrades IMO for the same reason - less grip, too much lateral load.

That's what JJ said also - regarding turning after the wall for T1. Most coaches tell you to turn at the end. I think I was a little early in general and it's a lot to manage as you point out at the apex, and you can easily run out of room on exit. Plus you see the exit later as a result which is more difficult.

Thanks for replying and contributing! Sounds like more data analysis than we typically go into to be honest! : )

For sure - wish I had the data! I actually do have RC Enerson's data in the same car I drove (they are all a bit different of course despite the best of balancing as you know), but at a different time of day. He was about a second faster (full course; not T17) than me and JJ! : O I believe he had the same verbal feedback as you - "fun to watch you on entry, but you are pinching the corner and hurting the exit". I can't recall what the data showed to be honest. He generally runs the exact same lines as JJ since JJ is his coach.

That's one of the coolest things about Lucas - the initial baseline laps set down in testing are from some seriously fast dudes; and they share the data from any car/competitor with any other competitor. There is no advantage in terms of analysis, which really makes it challenging. In most of the events this year, I was fastest in FP1 and/or FP2, but the kids would always learn faster and pass me up at some point. Still, a tremendous learning experience I'll never forget.