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  #21  
Old 02-16-2017, 01:24 PM
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Exactly..Ive done track days in my cars, and my old race cars..accidents happen..Ive seen them been in them...
Look at how the California Speedway and the Porsche CGT accident ended up...many parties paid and were held liable...
There will be more then one on this one if Im were to bet..
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More people probably die on their way to the track to watch races than the people in them. Bad things can happen, and driving on a track is no exception.
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  #22  
Old 02-16-2017, 04:38 PM
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I guess this is going to also affect Cars and Coffee this weekend since they relocated to this facility. The weather may have the biggest affect though.
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2017, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by The Kook Abides View Post
...it used to be that you had to be a REAL racer to get on a road course.

School, laps, tech inspection, fuel cells, safety gear, etc.

This whole racer wannabe stuff brings with it this kind of stuff...

Street cars are for the street.
This is true, but even some of the guys that actually know what they are doing get killed. It's not a sport if you can't get killed. R.I.P. my brothers.


There are some things I wouldn't do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNa5dcLccS4
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  #24  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:11 PM
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This is true, but even some of the guys that actually know what they are doing get killed. It's not a sport if you can't get killed. R.I.P. my brothers.


There are some things I wouldn't do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNa5dcLccS4
OMG I have seen that, I think I read he died, but after reading the comments perhaps not. Must have been the snow.

+John Cruz Yeah, he broke several bones. He's lucky he attempted this during the winter when there was snow in the ground.
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2017, 01:23 PM
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The waivers mean nothing , there will be lawsuits and Lambo will get sued for sure , especially since they just announced a recall on the aventador's regarding the car's potential to catch fire .
Very sad scenario for all and even is the lawsuits are successful , they will not bring the dead driver and passenger . RIP
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  #26  
Old 02-17-2017, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by spicedriver View Post
This is true, but even some of the guys that actually know what they are doing get killed. It's not a sport if you can't get killed. R.I.P. my brothers.


There are some things I wouldn't do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNa5dcLccS4
''Miraculously, the man survived the fall after the powdery snow cushions his fall. He was even able to walk again after three months after fracturing his vertebrae, pelvis and legs.''

THANK GOD
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  #27  
Old 02-17-2017, 04:39 PM
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The track and business is reopening next week. It was a voluntary shut down and they have decided next week it should reopen.

But my guess is it's going to hurt business quite a bit.
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  #28  
Old 02-18-2017, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by MVDESQ View Post
I suspect there are strong waivers that everyone signed that binds their respective heirs and successors too. However, who knows.
I'm not a lawyer, but it is my understanding you cannot waive away any right to sue for gross negligence. Simple negligence means you made a mistake. Gross negligence means you were aware of a problem, or should have been aware of a problem, and did nothing about it.

Plus, when you have damage, juries will find fault.
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2017, 11:39 AM
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I'm not a lawyer, but it is my understanding you cannot waive away any right to sue for gross negligence. Simple negligence means you made a mistake. Gross negligence means you were aware of a problem, or should have been aware of a problem, and did nothing about it.

Plus, when you have damage, juries will find fault.

True. But if you're driving the car and it crashes it's your fault. The only excuse would be a mechanical failure, improper preparation, or design flaw.

I think the investigative focus now is on the car and how it was prepped.

Life is not without its risks. Sometimes "Stuff happens" in the decisions we make. You can't sue everything just because it doesn't go your way.
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  #30  
Old 02-18-2017, 12:25 PM
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True. But if you're driving the car and it crashes it's your fault. The only excuse would be a mechanical failure, improper preparation, or design flaw.

I think the investigative focus now is on the car and how it was prepped.

Life is not without its risks. Sometimes "Stuff happens" in the decisions we make. You can't sue everything just because it doesn't go your way.
All true....

But best I can tell, anyone can file suit against anyone else, for almost any reason....now, whether the court throws it out or it goes forward and creates a huge judgment, that's based on our court and justice system which is now conditioned to "someone is always to blame but the person responsible".

Accidents happen, cars crash, people get hurt and, yes, sometimes the car burns up. Happened locally here to a wonderful guy a few years back in his 458 Spider. I'm unsure it was Ferrari, or Pirelli's, fault that the car was going too fast, into a strange turn, with low grip, and that the car then went off into the woods and hit a tree right at the fuel tank...... I'm pretty sure the car was compliant with DoT and NHTSA safety and design elements...

this was a tragedy, but it does happen every day - just not a Lambo at a race track.
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  #31  
Old 02-18-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMayor View Post
True. But if you're driving the car and it crashes it's your fault. The only excuse would be a mechanical failure, improper preparation, or design flaw.

I think the investigative focus now is on the car and how it was prepped.

Life is not without its risks. Sometimes "Stuff happens" in the decisions we make. You can't sue everything just because it doesn't go your way.
I'm with you on that. I'd love for people to be more accountable for their own actions. But that's not the way of the world anymore. My guess is there will be big settlements to avoid going in front of a jury.
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  #32  
Old 02-18-2017, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Entropy View Post
All true....

But best I can tell, anyone can file suit against anyone else, for almost any reason....now, whether the court throws it out or it goes forward and creates a huge judgment, that's based on our court and justice system which is now conditioned to "someone is always to blame but the person responsible".

Accidents happen, cars crash, people get hurt and, yes, sometimes the car burns up. Happened locally here to a wonderful guy a few years back in his 458 Spider. I'm unsure it was Ferrari, or Pirelli's, fault that the car was going too fast, into a strange turn, with low grip, and that the car then went off into the woods and hit a tree right at the fuel tank...... I'm pretty sure the car was compliant with DoT and NHTSA safety and design elements...

this was a tragedy, but it does happen every day - just not a Lambo at a race track.
A race track is not a public roadway. Many states have laws protecting track operators, or they would all have been sued out of business from the very first accident.

And I'm not so sure this will hurt business. I remember my first day of racing school, there was a crumpled up Lola, a student had crashed in the previous class. The driver ended up in the hospital. This did not deter anyone in my class from continuing on with the training. Nobody thinks it's going to happen to them.
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  #33  
Old 02-18-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by spicedriver View Post
I remember my first day of racing school, there was a crumpled up Lola, a student had crashed in the previous class. The driver ended up in the hospital. This did not deter anyone in my class from continuing on with the training. Nobody thinks it's going to happen to them.
Me too! My 1st day a ford gt bit the dust. Nobody dropped out.
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  #34  
Old 02-18-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by spicedriver View Post
A race track is not a public roadway. Many states have laws protecting track operators, or they would all have been sued out of business from the very first accident.

And I'm not so sure this will hurt business. I remember my first day of racing school, there was a crumpled up Lola, a student had crashed in the previous class. The driver ended up in the hospital. This did not deter anyone in my class from continuing on with the training. Nobody thinks it's going to happen to them.
I have raced for 17+ years, from club stuff to pro level, and must have signed 200,000 waivers in my lifetime. Have been around some profoundly sad events while chasing my passion.

While I agree - there are all sorts of laws, waivers, you name it - about 2 years ago I was there when a small mechanical issue combined with a horrible piece of driving judgement by a pretty experienced driver ended up in $500K in physical damages and some bad injuries.

Amazingly, in spite of all those laws and waivers, a few lawsuits were filed. Didn't make the press so guess it doesn't exist. The first round of depositions were fun as most of the "witnesses" (who had been there, seen the car, reviewed the data and video) all said "you step into a race car, just be glad you get to step out of it".
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  #35  
Old 02-18-2017, 05:38 PM
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Problem is this case is a PI lawyer's wet dream. Newly wedded wife watched husband being burned to a crisp? It will never make it to a jury.


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  #36  
Old 02-18-2017, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Forever View Post
Problem is this case is a PI lawyer's wet dream. Newly wedded wife watched husband being burned to a crisp? It will never make it to a jury.


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I doubt it. Unless there's some evidence of negligence that hasn't been made public. More likely it was just driver error.

You need something like the cell phone video evidence in the Tony Stewart case. That was pretty damning, IMO. I believe that wrongful death suit is still in court.
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  #37  
Old 02-18-2017, 09:53 PM
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All the waivers, in legal terms, not only say that you won't sue... But that you will pay all the legal fees for their defense...

hold harmless and indemnify... Is the language I believe...

So, if you sue a track, and lose, do they really collect on their legal fees? Would suk to lose after a loved one died, and get hit by a $200k bill...

Anyone ever seen that enforced?
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  #38  
Old 02-18-2017, 09:58 PM
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Waivers are unenforceable. See the results of carrera gt crash at fontana with the ferrari
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  #39  
Old 02-18-2017, 10:39 PM
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Waivers are unenforceable. See the results of carrera gt crash at fontana with the ferrari


Exactly what I was thinking about


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  #40  
Old 02-19-2017, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
Waivers are unenforceable. See the results of carrera gt crash at fontana with the ferrari
What was the final verdict and judgement. I almost typed awards but there are no awards here. Just sadness
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