Go Back   FerrariChat.com > Model Specific Discussions > Vintage (thru 365 GTC4) - Sponsored by Vintage Driving Machines > Vintage Ferrari Market

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #141  
Old 12-23-2016, 05:14 PM
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NYC/CT
Posts: 261
Well, if somebody went to the auction putting much faith in these estimates and walked away thinking "I feel like a fool" it's because they were fools. Sorry to be harsh but anybody with passing knowledge of the collectible car market would have known that some of these estimates were just WAY too low, clearly out of the context of the market. I went in with the intention of bidding on 6-7 cars. My target levels were higher than the estimates in all cases, several times higher in some cases (like the 993 GT2 race car). I bought nothing...

Why did RM have estimates like these? It's important to remember that there were special circumstances surrounding this auction and they explain a lot. When 2-3 years RM competed with other auction houses for the right to handle the sale they had to provide estimates that, I assume, reflected the then market and the special circumstances (I bet they hadn't even been able to see the cars; a number of the legal and tax issues surronding the sale had likely not been addressed). When it came to the actual sale they felt that for legal reasons they should use the same estimates. How do I know? I asked an RM specialist before I booked my trip as could have anyone else...
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #142  
Old 12-23-2016, 07:12 PM
Formula 3
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,710
The very low estimates may well have been to justify seizing the entire collection. If you could get the entire amount from just say the cars, then the government had no justification to seize everything and in that way punish the gentlemen for evading his tax obligation. There could be other reasons I'm sure, but this one is a plausible as some of the others.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:25 PM
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: with Enzo 8995
Posts: 677
I mentioned this earlier, but without the link one might have just passed this by...John Wiley's, wily blog is just fascinating, tho' technical. Looking forward to his post on the Scottsdale auctions. Here's the link: John Wiley Cars

BTW, i'm in the camp that believes RM did a great job in this venue...no legerdemain here, just solid, savvy biz. steve meltzer
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 12-23-2016, 11:29 PM
F1 Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by nis1973 View Post
...Sorry to be harsh but anybody with passing knowledge of the collectible car market would have known that some of these estimates were just WAY too low, clearly out of the context of the market...
Based on the historical comparables, condition and provenance, I felt the estimated range for the car I was interested in was a bit on the high side already. Not outrageously so, however. Nevertheless, it hammered at 4x the high end of their estimate. As an aside, it's good to see that the market remains strong, I suppose.

I can accept that an estimate can be wrong for any number of reasons, but it's someone's job to set the estimate, and it shouldn't miss the mark by such a wide margin, IMO.

It certainly sounded like a Herculean task to get this collection auctioned, and RMSothebys should be applauded for that.

CW
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #145  
Old 12-24-2016, 04:13 AM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 81
As said before, I was there.

Ref. the Lancia-Ferrari LC2 there seem to be special reasons for the result.

One older italian man (seemed to be an ex-driver) wanted the car very badly, but was outbid by a young chinese couple.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 12-24-2016, 09:14 AM
F1 Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. K. View Post
One older italian man (seemed to be an ex-driver) wanted the car very badly, but was outbid by a young chinese couple.
I think we all understand that it only takes two bidders for things to spiral up. They both must have wanted it desperately and had some fairly deep pockets. All good. That's auctions for you.

IIRC, Canepa's LC2, which had a strong provenance and a full restoration, sold around this mark. Given that many Group C/IMSA GTP cars can be had for a couple or few hundred thousand, both LC2s seemed high. Personally, I don't see it the justification, but I'm also not emotionally attached to it. I suppose I can understand the high prices of the 956/962 (especially the Werkes car), which were the gold standard, of the period, but I'm not sure I feel the LC2 should be in the same neighborhood. Just my own analysis, and, as stated, the bidders set the market.

CW
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 02-17-2017, 11:11 AM
Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: England
Full Name: Ryan Bushell
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans2 View Post
Aside from the auction how worthwhile was the AutoClassica show (displays, parts, dealer offerings)? I understand it's a semi-annual event.
Reasonably priced items and good range of F parts, tools and literature on sale.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 PM.


FerrariChat.com has no association with Ferrari S.p.A.
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.