Go Back   FerrariChat.com > Model Specific Discussions > Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-19-2004, 05:29 PM
Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Camano Island WA
Full Name: Jon Beutler Jr
Posts: 14
Ferrari 375 Indy car

What knowlege do people have about these cars? I know there was something like 4 brought over for the race. 1951 I believe was the year, and Ascari was the driver for Ferrari. I know more about it.... but I want to know even MORE! What all can we compose about these rare machines?

JB
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #2  
Old 08-19-2004, 05:30 PM
BigTex's Avatar
Six Time F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Full Name: Bubba
Posts: 68,203
Wire wheels broke......DNF
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-19-2004, 06:41 PM
Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Camano Island WA
Full Name: Jon Beutler Jr
Posts: 14
Does anyone know where these cars are now? I know there is one at the museum in the Indianapolis track. Anyone know of others?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-19-2004, 07:21 PM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mississippi
Full Name: David
Posts: 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBeutler
What knowlege do people have about these cars? I know there was something like 4 brought over for the race. 1951 I believe was the year, and Ascari was the driver for Ferrari. I know more about it.... but I want to know even MORE! What all can we compose about these rare machines?

JB
Interesting? It was for the 1952 Indy race I believe .... the chassis numbers were 01, 02, 03, 04 ...

01 Ferrari qualified and raced by Alberto Ascarai (Did not finish) ... broken wire wheel I believe.
02 Grant Piston did not qualify - driven by Johnny Parsons.
03 Kennedy Tank Special did not qualify - driven by Johnny Mauro.
04 Keck Special, I am not sure, but I don't think this car attempted qualifying.

I don't know where any of the cars are located, but you may find some information at the following site:

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All....treet_cars.htm

scroll down to "Formula 1, 2 and others" I think it is and search for the 375 Indy cars ...

Best wishes
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-19-2004, 08:44 PM
F1 Veteran
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Milton, Wash.
Full Name: Jeff B.
Posts: 5,892
Jon: Road & Track did a series of articles on the Ferraris that came to Indianapolis, with numerous detail pictures. I have all of these issues from 1952. Here is a picture of a piston, which should match the one in your possession. And individual shots of the four cars.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 375piston.jpg (29.4 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg indy375.jpg (24.3 KB, 181 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-19-2004, 09:17 PM
F1 Veteran
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Etceterini Land
Full Name: Dr.Stuart Schaller
Posts: 6,415
Tino Martinoli, who was indirectly responsible for Ferrari's first race win ever (the car was repaired at his shop in Rome, when it spun a bearing in practice) came to the US as a mechanic with the Indy cars. Tino later had the Ferrari tuning and repair shop called Marcor, in Hollywood, Ca.

Tino passed away about 15 years ago, but his son Mario is a well know chef and TV and radio personality in the LA area.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-19-2004, 09:46 PM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mississippi
Full Name: David
Posts: 144
Jon:

I had noticed your last name, but did not wish to presume that you may be kin to a past owner of one of the subject vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miltonian
Jon: Road & Track did a series of articles on the Ferraris that came to Indianapolis, with numerous detail pictures. I have all of these issues from 1952. Here is a picture of a piston, which should match the one in your possession. And individual shots of the four cars.
With "Miltonian's" response, I looked back over your past posts and find the following post:

"I have a piston from a very rare Ferrari that was given to me by my grandfather (the piston not the car, and it was actually had some damage to it... went into the valves! Anyhow, its really great paper weight, does it maybe have some value to it do you think? It is from one of the few early fifties (I believe 51) Ferrari 375F1- Indy car. It was the Johnny Parsons I believe car. Anyhow... any thougths as to value? Ten bucks maybe? Anyhow I am going to post if anyone knows anything about these cars (Indianapolis)."

If your Grandfather is a previous owner of this car, I am sure that the piston that you have did come from the "Grants Piston" car as the previous owner and I communicated via email regarding this car during a period when I purchased several small parts from this car for display. He mentioned that the car had punched a valve during a race at one point during his ownership. As there is some provenance to the piston and if it does indeed look similar to the one pictured in the post provided by "Miltonian" I would suspect that the market value of the piston would be between $250 and $400.

I would hope that you would not sell it, but rather keep it as a momento of your families history.

Best wishes
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-20-2004, 12:23 AM
Formula 3
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: belgium
Full Name: vincent
Posts: 1,301
some pictures
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1952 indianapolis 375 ascari n12.jpg (56.0 KB, 160 views)
File Type: jpg 1952 Indianapolis 375 ascari.jpg (46.8 KB, 157 views)
File Type: jpg 1952 Indianapolis ascari.jpg (36.4 KB, 157 views)
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #9  
Old 08-20-2004, 07:24 AM
bigodino's Avatar
F1 World Champ
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Full Name: Peter den Biggelaar
Posts: 10,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBeutler
Does anyone know where these cars are now? I know there is one at the museum in the Indianapolis track. Anyone know of others?
s/n 02 is here in The Netherlands with Mr. Louwman in his museum.

Ciao, Peter
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-20-2004, 07:35 AM
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 666
A very nice lawyer from Detroit owned one of the cars in the 1970s and darned if I can remember his name. He vintage raced the car pretty regularly. I don't know whether or not he still owns the car.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-20-2004, 10:30 AM
Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Camano Island WA
Full Name: Jon Beutler Jr
Posts: 14
Gentleman, thank you so much for your help and assistance. I plan on never getting rid of that piston. Especially because the "very nice lawyer from Detroit" was so kind as to give it to me before he sold this special machine. It looks like you fellas did some research and payed attention to my last name. The Grant piston car was his... I have a great picture of myself in that car when I was something like 3 years old. I had the passion even then! You can see it in my eyes. Right before he sold the car, I got another chance to sit in it while it was in the garage, it was such a great experience especially since I fit in it at that time and actually could see over that large steering wheel! By far the nicest car I have been in the driver seat of!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-26-2004, 07:14 AM
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 666
Oh geeze, I am thick. The name was there all along. If your grandfather was Ernie and he's still around tell him hello. I remember him as a very kind and modest guy. When I started vintage racing in the 1970s, your grandfather, Jack Mayes, Ed and Sandra Osborn, John Kleen and Frank Opalka were the only people running VSCCA from the midwest.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-27-2004, 10:59 AM
Formula 3
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: belgium
Full Name: vincent
Posts: 1,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBeutler
Gentleman, thank you so much for your help and assistance. I plan on never getting rid of that piston. Especially because the "very nice lawyer from Detroit" was so kind as to give it to me before he sold this special machine. It looks like you fellas did some research and payed attention to my last name. The Grant piston car was his... I have a great picture of myself in that car when I was something like 3 years old. I had the passion even then! You can see it in my eyes. Right before he sold the car, I got another chance to sit in it while it was in the garage, it was such a great experience especially since I fit in it at that time and actually could see over that large steering wheel! By far the nicest car I have been in the driver seat of!
please, show us your picture when you where 3 years old, must be great.

greetings, vincent
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-02-2011, 09:25 PM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bristol
Full Name: Ralph Colmar
Posts: 133
#7 Red Grant Piston Ring Ferrari Special

Some of you will have seen pictures I have posted elsewhere on this forum and will be aware that I post a regular Ferrari Friday blog :

http://psychoontyres.blogspot.com/20...-mm-0052m.html

This week an acquaintance Brian in Indiana has kindly let me use these photo's (see posted below) in my month long blog celebration of the centenary of the Indianapolis 500.

I wonder if any one can help me identify exactly which (if any) of the 375 Indy cars can be seen on the trailer ?

Brian took these photographs around 1971 in the Holiday Inn Car Park in Dearborn.

I have seen photo's of what 'looks' like the same car in 1970 said to be on Lindley Bothwells estate on TORCS

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/IndyFerrari2.html

the TORCS page says 375 Serial No.2 was the #6 Grant Piston Ring Special and that the colour was RED.

I know the car Ascari ran was red BUT I have only ever seen 'in period' photographs of the #6 Grant Piston Ring Special in a creamy off white colour.

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/Indyferrari375.jpg

Can any one confirm the #6 Grant Piston Ring ever ran red in period and if it was ever painted red out of period ?

All reply's will be duly credited if used on my blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses,

Ralph aka Art T

http://psychoontyres.blogspot.com/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 01 FerrariIndy sc.jpg (246.4 KB, 1756 views)
File Type: jpg 02 FerrariIndy sc.jpg (221.3 KB, 1757 views)

Last edited by arttidesco; 05-02-2011 at 09:28 PM. Reason: correction 1975 changed to 1970
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-04-2011, 01:42 PM
BigTex's Avatar
Six Time F1 World Champ
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Full Name: Bubba
Posts: 68,203
The Grant car was indeed cream or off white with red lettering, per the 1/43rd example in my die cast collection (Brumm??)...

"Ending up red" is predictible but IMO inaccurate to the Indy race trim colors, as you see in that track photo.

Edit: That puts me on the "wrong side of history" per the notes of Micheal T Lynch (race color = red) in the link cited above, maybe the modelers have it wrong.

Last edited by BigTex; 05-04-2011 at 01:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-05-2011, 02:12 PM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bristol
Full Name: Ralph Colmar
Posts: 133
Evidence of a Red Grant Car !

Mystery of the colour of the #6 at Indy in 1952 deepens, on the Grant Piston Ring website are pics of the familiar #6 white Grant Piston Ring Special and a pic of Danny Oakes at the wheel of an apparently red vehicle with a Grant Piston Ring Decal, is it possible the car was painted during the month of May and if so from white to red ?

http://www.grantpistonrings.com/hist...tory_cars.htm#

Also interesting to note is that Danny is not sitting behind a wide screen but a small formula one type such as Ascari used for the 500, where as the white #6 has a much wider perspex screen.
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #17  
Old 06-27-2011, 12:53 AM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Camano Island, WA
Full Name: Jon F Beutler Jr.
Posts: 74
This is Jon, formerly JBeutler who started this thread. A lot can take place in 7 years or so! I have been busy with life and not keeping up with Ferrari chat. In fact, I noticed the day I posted this thread was the day I first asked out my wife (later on that evening). Anyhow...

Back to the car. I do know a bit about it. When my grandfather owned it, the car was red. I am not sure however if he painted the car red, or if he bought it that way. Something in my memory makes me think he painted it red. I do recall him telling me later on (after he sold it, which took place in the mid to late nineties) that the pedal assembly had the brake and throttle pedals in opposite locations, and the car was subsequently badly wrecked at a vintage race when the driver reacted entering a corner accelerating rather than braking and wrecking the vehicle. That is the last I have heard of it. I would love to know who owns it and where it is located these days!

Unfortunately, my grandfather, Ernie Beutler's health has not been the greatest lately. He has dementia, so questioning him about the vehicle would likely prove fruitless. I don't know though, maybe I could have my father ask him if he remembers anything about it. As my previous posts have said, I grew up obsessing over vehicles, carrying over his passion. Now I own a small independent sports car dealership and am passing on the legacy to my son, nearly two years old, who has been bitten badly by the Ferrari bug.

If anyone has specific questions about the car, I would do my best to answer them. I always love to talk about these vehicles, so feel free to contact me any time!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-27-2011, 12:56 AM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Camano Island, WA
Full Name: Jon F Beutler Jr.
Posts: 74
Arttidesco, where did you receive those pictures of the 375 on the trailer? That is likely my grandfather's trailer (Michigan plates).
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-27-2011, 05:00 AM
Karting
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bristol
Full Name: Ralph Colmar
Posts: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmotorsllc View Post
Arttidesco, where did you receive those pictures of the 375 on the trailer? That is likely my grandfather's trailer (Michigan plates).
Hi gpmotorsllc, that is amazing about the trailer likely being your Grandpas, I got the pics from an internet acquaintance called Brian who lives in Indiana.

PM me if you'd like to be put in contact.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:17 AM
Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Full Name: Martijn
Posts: 27
more info from the louwman museum

http://www.louwmanmuseum.nl/asp/appm...d=&collsq=5420
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:35 PM.


FerrariChat.com has no association with Ferrari S.p.A.
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.